Dublin coach - Dublin city centre - Belfast non stop

J.pilkington

devnull wrote: »

Really? Because looking around on Flickr I am struggling to find a photo of any quickpark vehicle with a 2004 registration. I can find a lot of vehicles from 2003 however and the odd one from 2007 and 2009, but since there are a lot of older 2004 bendy buses on the route, it shouldn't be too hard for you to prove me wrong should it? Did find a hell of a lot of Dublin Coach Neoplans and ex Aircoach Setras with 2004 regs,

I think you might be correct there, my memory was showing a 04 but I think on reflection they are 08 regs which I am thinking of, on pressed plates with MUTEC surrounds, however my other points still stand if you care to address them. Probably not though.

I hope all the other posters are getting some enjoyment out of this thread.

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

Elaborate how you came to this daft conclusion. You are now making things up.

Fair enough, you don't consider them predatory, my bad mistake.

Therefore you are saying that you do not agree with the report from the Office of Fair Trading, because the things which you are saying are not predatory, are things which a competition regulator found could be considered predatory.

age of the buses

You will find that I wasn't the one who brought up that topic, another poster is.

prediction of altercations at bus stops

Where did I use the word altercations?

selecting a time

All I said is that a UK Office of Fair Trading investigation showed that predatory behaviour can include running services directly behind or in front of the competition.

the fare structure where allegations were made that their pricing plans are unrealistic

All I said is that a UK Office of Fair Trading investigation showed that predatory behaviour can include significantly cutting prices under other operators in the market and Dublin Coach have undercut Translink, Bus Eireann and Aircoach by approx 70 in relation to on bus fares.

allegations of management motives / tactics which you have no idea of

All I said is that a UK Office of Fair Trading investigation showed that predatory behaviour can involve some of the tactics that are being employed at the launch of this service.

It's absurd you claim I have no idea of the tactics, the tactical options the company have selected are to run five minutes behind and make a fare cut of approx 70% on the route compared to the other operators on the route in cash terms.

These together can be considered as tactics, and the UK Office of Fair Trading has stated that such tactics could be considered predatory and the NTA has considered that head to head running is not in the customer interest.

Dublin coach not investing any money to launch their service and are riding of the back of aircoachs marketing budget

I think the fact that they are operating a service around the same time is going to save them money in marketing don't you? If passengers are already at the stop, you need to spend less money telling them to go there to avail of your services. If they were at another stop and a different time they would have to spend money to do that.

If I hadn't done the above some poor customer would stumble across this thread by googling the route providers and based on your input would choose aircoach for the fear of having to travel in a 13 year old coach with millions of kilometres which would probably break down, get involved in an altercation at a bus stop, the coach company goes bankrupt all of the while the service which is being operated is illegal in 55 countries!

Right, your continued misquoting is entertaining if it wasn't so tragic, you are constantly putting words in my mouth and accusing me or saying things I did not say and it is getting rather tiresome, you refuse to back anything you say up with any other source than your words, when I show you a source you ignore I showed it and turn around and accuse me of something that I never even said myself and you keep making the same arguments without answering any of my points.

I also never once stated that a 13 year old coach would operate on the route with million of kilometers or it would break down, I was merely answering another poster on a discussion forum who brought the subject up about such vehicles. I also never said the service was illegal so please do not make such accusations to me again, I also never mentioned the word altercation, you are spouting nothing but hyperbole.

And I haven't even played the card of Dublin coach being a 100% Irish owned company operating Irish registered coaches versus a massive foreign owned multinational who treats Ireland as a region of the uk in their consolidated financial statements! I am very pashinate about Irish companies. Go Goliath.

As far as I'm aware Aircoach have a Irish Company registration number and pay Irish tax, since they are more profitable than Dublin Coach in the last couple of years I would suggest that they have paid a lot more tax than them. Also you will find Aircoach vehicles that are based in Ireland are registered in Ireland and are bought, leased and have maintenance carried out by Irish Commercials in Naas and soon to be Santry.

You also reference the significant years of management experience of DC, surely then they would be well aware of the war aircoach brought to gobe

The NTA does not allow tactics like Dublin Coach are using with Aircoach on the Belfast run, so I'm interested in what war you are talking about since both services were leaving from different locations and were half an hour apart in schedules and the price cut that Aircoach made was tiny in comparison to the price cut that Dublin Coach have made.

and see that there is a market for a city to city service which does not currently exist.

The difference is that the NTA will ensure that the services are separated when it comes to stops and at least half an hour time separation when it comes to the services, again you're comparing apples and oranges, if Belfast was part of ROI, Dublin Coach would have never been allowed the timetable they are now running.

Their own service has USPs that aircoach don't have and this is what they will sell their service on and not physically force customers at gunpoint onto their coaches as you have effectively alluded to

Where did I mention gunpoint? More hyperbole and putting words in my mouth.

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

but I think on reflection they are 08 regs which I am thinking of

Great, glad we can have this conversation, because now I am about to prove you wrong.

According to Dublin Coaches official license for Public Transport in Ireland they have 5 vehicles which were registered in 2008.

They are:
08KE17205 - Setra Coach
08KE17182 - Setra Coach
08KE4913 - Sprinter Minibus
08KE5864 - Tours Coach
08KE3349 - Sprinter

So let me get this right
- Firstly you make a point saying they have a load of 2003 bendies, I call you out
- Then you make a point saying they are 2008 - I call you out

You have had two attempts to make a point and on each time you have posted incorrect information on this board which is easily proven to be incorrect and misleading and you seem to think that it's entertaining the fact that time and time again you are making claims with no source to back them up and nothing at all apart from the fact you say so so you must be right.

Really, it would be nice if you came out and said you made a mistake and you got caught out lying on the board and posting false information to try and make a point to mislead others, you posted wrong information and when I called you out you tried to save face by posting further wrong information to continue to mislead others, I think someone getting caught red handed trying to mislead other posters has ruined your credibility right now.

XPS_Zero

This is why we have a social market economy model in Europe developed over the years because experience taught us running a company exclusively in the interest of the unions runs it into the ground (BE) and running it only on behalf of the shareholders or owners to make a pure cut throats profit with no consideration of PSO or customer needs or overall market is just as bad

This may be just.the opposite of the NBRU heads saying (as to my amazement one literally said) "no we've no alternative suggestions we care about our members terms and conditions nothing else"

The reason we have things like the NTA is history's proven you need to balace customer/public interests, workers interests /flexibility and competition to allow a decent profit
This might be chopping the other two ends of that stool off

J.pilkington

@devnull, accusing me of lying, i.e. making things up to a stranger on the internet about the licence plate on a bus, that's the level you are at now? That's a low thing to accuse someone of. You need to learn how to have an adult discussion, one which you are now absolutely biased and blinded about. Not 1 single positive thing about this service / operator. You must be deluded if you don't see anything positive at all from this service. But then again I have seen the exact same from you on any thread where air coaches competitors are mentioned.

Stick this in your pipe, 1 google and I see this bus and it's mentioned on your beloved licence page,
http://s298.photobucket.com/user/dublintransportview/media/quickPARKrear.jpg.html

I.e. My point was you took all the coaches listed on this site and used this to come up with an average age, whereas there are a pile of buses working the quickpark route, none of which are new so therefore exaggerates the average age and these will obviously never appear on the Belfast route.

I suppose you will want me shot now because in error I called then bendy buses when they are not.

Again zero acknowledgement of my point that not all of their old coaches are on the road.

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

@devnull, accusing me of lying, i.e. making things up to a stranger on the internet about the licence plate on a bus, that's the level you are at now? That's a low thing to accuse someone of. You need to learn how to have an adult discussion, one which you are now absolutely biased and blinded about. Not 1 single positive thing about this service / operator. You must be deluged if you don't see anything positive at all from this service.

I'm perfectly able to have an adult discussion thank you very much and I won't be drawn into calling people deluded or belittling them or anything of the like.

I'm still waiting for you to back up your original point on the topic of the quick park buses
- Firstly you claimed they are from 2004, I called you out for being wrong.
- Then you claimed they were from 2008, I called you out for being wrong

You haven't admitted yet that you have made points on a thread which I am able to back up were not correct with a third party source and you again, make claims and say things, like you have done throughout this thread by stating I have said things that I haven't and then making points which you cannot back up and when proven wrong you can't admit it.

The fact is that you have made a claim which has been proven as incorrect, you then replied with another claim that is proven to be incorrect and then at the third attempt at making a point go and make a point of a completely different nature from the original point which you made and say somehow that justifies the original point. The best thing about posting a fact is that you research facts before you post rather than guessing.

Speaking of which.....

Stick this in your pipe, 1 google and I see this bus and it's mentioned on your beloved licence page, or
http://s298.photobucket.com/user/dublintransportview/media/quickPARKrear.jpg.html

I'm struggling to see what relevance that link has to this thread, you make a claim all their bendy buses are from 2004, which I prove to be wrong, then you make a claim that they are from 2008 that I prove is wrong then you go and post a non bendy bus from 2007?

Lastly the license page I mention is a legal register of all of the public transport vehicles registered to operate on services within the state to a particular operator. I think that is as good a source as you can get for who operates what vehicles?

I.e. My point was you took all the coaches listed and used this to come up with an average age, whereas there are a pile of buses working the quickpark route, none of which are new so beings down the average age and these will obviously never appear on the Belfast route.

Considering some of the bendy buses operate scheduled services as well, I'd like to see how we are going to determine which ones do and do not operate exclusively on QuickPark and which ones do not, but I can assure you that Dublin Coach use a number of buses on scheduled services and not just coaches.

But seeing as we are not going to include vehicles that are not operating on scheduled services that's not going to really help the age profile of Dublin Coach because what we'll also have to do is remove the vehicles that are operated on private hire tours and tour packages as well which discounts a large number of the newest Tourismo's as well.

Again zero acknowledgement of my point that not all of their old coaches are on the road.

As of several months ago they were still acquiring coaches that had been returned off-lease from Aircoach. Are you seriously suggesting that they are just hording the coaches and registering them up and not using them, what would be the point?

J.pilkington

@devnull

You are deluded if you think the fact I couldn't remember a reg of an airport parking bus devalues my argument and makes me a liar, the "called you out", are you for real? Sorry to let you know but I don't record bus number plates on a notepad.

The fact you are not going to acknowledge that the quickpark buses are on DBs licence sums your discussion style up. You told me to go find one which I did. Talk about missing the wood from the trees.

I'm not quoting yet another insanely long post by you. It's your normal tactics from you when aircoach are challenged you try and kill the discussion with walls of text (I was thinking of you when I read this)
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057689688/1

J.pilkington

"devnull wrote: »

Considering some of the bendy buses operate scheduled services as well, I'd like to see how we are going to determine which ones do and do not operate exclusively on QuickPark and which ones do not, but I can assure you that Dublin Coach use a number of buses on scheduled services and not just coach

Firstly there are no bendy buses!

Secondly I'll eat my hat if I see an airport bus with big quick park branding and which has a small % of seating capacity due to luggage racks operating a long distance route.

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

You are deluded if you think the fact I couldn't remember a reg of an airport parking bus devalues my argument and makes me a liar, the "called you out", are you for real?

It's good of you to finally confirm that your post are influenced by your memory and by guesswork and you are not checking your facts before you make claims on C+T and are making claims which you appear to be admitting that you cannot be sure are true or not.

You have just spectacularly managed to reduce your credibility further.

Sorry to let you know but I don't record bus number plates on a notepad.

If you post on a message-board and make a claim, expect others to challenge it. This is the way message-boards work. The way of avoiding this is making sure that you have confidence and check sources before you make any claims. This is something that I always try and do where possible because I believe a somewhat informed discussion where someone checks things before they post is better than making claims with nothing to back them up.

The fact you are not going to acknowledge that the quickpark buses are on DBs licence sums your discussion style up. You told me to go find one which I did.

Firstly I have no idea who you are referring to with DB, since Dublin Coach and Dublin Bus are completely different companies and always have been, although the boss did previously work for Bus Eireann many a year ago.

Secondly you stated that Dublin Coach had a number of 2004 Citaros and I asked you to find one, several posts later you have not done this and continue to skirt around this because you cannot simply say that you made a post where you were mistaken because your post was based on memory rather than on a well researched facts.

But in summary to put it in small steps
- You claimed they had a number of 2004 bendys
- I told you they did not and asked you to post proof.
- You did not post proof.
- You changed tack and claimed they were 2008
- I proved to you they were not and asked you to post proof.
- You did not post proof
- You then posted a photo of a non bendy 2007 Citaro

Now you claim that you did what I asked you to but you haven't, you have posted something completely different which is not what I am asked for, because once again you are unable to hold your hands up and say you were mistaken and did not research your claims, which I have now proven to be incorrect with a legal register of vehicle.

You continually put words into my mouth, you make claims about me which are not true, you say you have answered questions when you have, you ignore every single highly reputable source I post and you have admitted that your posts are based on guesswork and memory and you are not researching your facts. I'm not quite sure how anyone can take any of your posts seriously when that is the case because you lack credibility because of all of the above.

I'm not quoting yet another insanely long post by you. It's your normal tactics from you when aircoach are challenged you try and kill the discussion with walls of text.

I'm not attempting to kill the discussion at all, if I wanted to kill the discussion I'd simply stop replying and hope that the topic drifts down the page and nobody saw it, that is the best way of killing the discussion after all, but I'm not doing that. You are making claims, I am challenging them, as I stated before, this is a discussion forum.

devnull

J.pilkington wrote: »

Firstly there are no bendy buses!

There are no bendy buses where?

monument

J.pilkington wrote: »

I'm not quoting yet another insanely long post by you. It's your normal tactics from you when aircoach are challenged you try and kill the discussion with walls of text (I was thinking of you when I read this)
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057689688/1

Banned for a day for backseat moderating.

-- moderator

XPS_Zero

You know these boards can be very interesting when you learn things (as I often do here) you didn't know or can teach people things they didn't know or hear other people's perpsctives on something you hadn't considered

It gets boring when it turns into a p11ssing contest between posters about who's super awesome cos they totally "destroyed" you. We're not 14
Can we stick to the topic in general not who totally scored what point and thus has a bigger Johnson ?

belfast stephen

To give people my view Dublin coach new service from the Belfast end over the 3 hours i was in the area 
1 Dublin coach was using Mercedes-Benz Tourismo 171 Reg
2 some of the coaches have Route Branding 
3 Dublin coach had marketing staff on the ground in Belfast city centre handing out Timetables  

Aircoach has said on the Facebook that new coaches will be coming to the Belfast route in the coming months

Troy Bayliss

Know nothing of DC being new to Belfast. They using a Belfast yard or does all their fleet work out of dub?
Hope they pay decent wages, northern drivers get pennys.

bk

belfast stephen wrote: »

Aircoach has said on the Facebook that new coaches will be coming to the Belfast route in the coming months

That isn't surprising. They have been buying in lots of new coaches over the last two years, replacing older coaches and rumour had it that they have even more on the way. So either way the Belfast route was also going to get these new coaches.

Which BTW are also a lot more fuel efficient, so good for reducing running costs.

I do like to see new services start up and this new Dublin Coach service does bring two positives to the route:

- Toilets on the coaches, something this route hasn't had until now and something which I think is important to have on intercity routes.
- Skipping the Airport, so should be quicker for people going directly from Dublin to Belfast. Though it might not be good for the companies finances, as a lot of the business on the route is from Belfast to Dublin Airport.

Having said that, I do feel they are participating in predatory tactics and I'm very disappointed to see that. Operating at the same time or very close to Aircoach is very clearly a predatory tactic and I don't think it is good for the travelling public or the companies involved.

I'd be much happier with this service if it operated and 15 or 30 minutes offset from Aircoaches schedule. That would be much better for the travelling public as it would give them more options IMO.

Also it kind of sucks for Dublin Coaches customers on the limerick route, who remain stuck on old coaches with no toilets and no alternative, while this new route gets shiny new coaches.

If this war heats up, I'd wonder if Aircoach would apply for a direct non stop license to Limerick? Dublin Coach seem to be the only one on that route, which would leave a second license available for someone to pick up. I'm surprised someone hasn't done so already. Maybe this could drive Aircoach to strike back.

marno21

bk wrote: »

That isn't surprising. They have been buying in lots of new coaches over the last two years, replacing older coaches and rumour had it that they have even more on the way. So either way the Belfast route was also going to get these new coaches.

Which BTW are also a lot more fuel efficient, so good for reducing running costs.

I do like to see new services start up and this new Dublin Coach service does bring two positives to the route:

- Toilets on the coaches, something this route hasn't had until now and something which I think is important to have on intercity routes.
- Skipping the Airport, so should be quicker for people going directly from Dublin to Belfast. Though it might not be good for the companies finances, as a lot of the business on the route is from Belfast to Dublin Airport.

Having said that, I do feel they are participating in predatory tactics and I'm very disappointed to see that. Operating at the same time or very close to Aircoach is very clearly a predatory tactic and I don't think it is good for the travelling public or the companies involved.

I'd be much happier with this service if it operated and 15 or 30 minutes offset from Aircoaches schedule. That would be much better for the travelling public as it would give them more options IMO.

Also it kind of sucks for Dublin Coaches customers on the limerick route, who remain stuck on old coaches with no toilets and no alternative, while this new route gets shiny new coaches.

If this war heats up, I'd wonder if Aircoach would apply for a direct non stop license to Limerick? Dublin Coach seem to be the only one on that route, which would leave a second license available for someone to pick up. I'm surprised someone hasn't done so already. Maybe this could drive Aircoach to strike back.

JJ Kavanagh do the Dublin-Limerick route as well (in addition to BE Expressway)

Banjoxed

J.pilkington wrote: »

Elaborate how you came to this daft conclusion. You are now making things up.

I'm glad I spent time tacking your baseless allegations which include;
- age of the buses
- prediction of altercations at bus stops
- selecting a time (again you have refused to address my points on this topic and moved the goal post and only want to address in combination with other issues)
- the fare structure where allegations were made that their pricing plans are unrealistic (glossing over / ignoring the term introductory and then refusing to acknowledge it's common practice)
- allegations of management motives / tactics which you have no idea of (see my final point)
- Dublin coach not investing any money to launch their service and are riding of the back of aircoachs marketing budget (laughable)

<my genuine fear> If I hadn't done the above some poor customer would stumble across this thread by googling the route providers and based on your input would choose aircoach for the fear of having to travel in a 13 year old coach with millions of kilometres which would probably break down, get involved in an altercation at a bus stop, the coach company goes bankrupt all of the while the service which is being operated is illegal in 55 countries!

And I haven't even played the card of Dublin coach being a 100% Irish owned company operating Irish registered coaches versus a massive foreign owned multinational who treats Ireland as a region of the uk in their consolidated financial statements! I am very pashinate about Irish companies. Go Goliath

You also reference the significant years of management experience of DC, surely then they would be well aware of the war aircoach brought to gobe (nothing long term anti customer there I suppose you will say) and see that there is a market for a city to city service which does not currently exist. Their own service has USPs that aircoach don't have and this is what they will sell their service on and not physically force customers at gunpoint onto their coaches as you have effectively alluded to

I'll keep taking the train, thanks

TheQuietFella

Thrashssacre wrote: »

16 services each way, starts Thursday surprised it hasn't been mentioned on here. Should be quiet a success at 10 quid a head and with the ability to bring 2 kids under 12 free with a paying adult

They're an accident only waiting to happen!

n97 mini

RogueOperator wrote: »

That is why you should go with Bus Eireann.

Surely you mean Aircoach, as the BE lads are currently refusing to work?

TheQuietFella

RogueOperator wrote: »

The first review is in from IRISHTRANSPORT ON YUKU


That is why you should go with Bus Eireann.

If anyone has issues with music on buses they should say it to the driver!
Not on forums such as these!

n97 mini

RogueOperator wrote: »

They are not refusing to work, they have been locked out.

NBRU wrote:

The NBRU will now engage in an all-out indefinite strike from Midnight tonight

strike
noun
1. a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer.

bk

marno21 wrote: »

JJ Kavanagh do the Dublin-Limerick route as well (in addition to BE Expressway)

Aren't they both stopping services? Dublin Coach the only direct, non stop service?

My understanding is that the NTA will license two stopping services and two direct non stops.

devnull

It's two stopping known as interurban
And
Two limited stop or non stop called interurban express

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/licence-categories-2/

marno21

bk wrote: »

Aren't they both stopping services? Dublin Coach the only direct, non stop service?

My understanding is that the NTA will license two stopping services and two direct non stops.

They do, I hadn't realised the JJK one stops in the towns until this week. There's an Eireagle/Citylink direct to Dublin Airport as well.

bk

marno21 wrote: »

They do, I hadn't realised the JJK one stops in the towns until this week. There's an Eireagle/Citylink direct to Dublin Airport as well.

Ah, I didn't realise Eireagle/Citylink were running to Limerick too! I thought it was just Galway. That would explain where the second direct (interurban express *) license went.

* I don't really like using this term, as too easy to mix it up with Bus Eireann Expressway services which ironically don't fall under the "interurban express" category.