how many know off? Incest

shugy

I know this mightn't be the appropriate forum to post this but here goes.

Im wanting to know how many on here would know of or heard of this sort of carryon in ireland in previous years. Sadly, i can say i know at least 4 familes where this has happened whether mutual or abused.

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/celebrity/incest-is-traditional-in-ireland-tilda-swintons-ex-partner-reveals-he-is-the-child-of-an-incestuous-relationship/ar-BByl1ON?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout



Tilda Swinton's ex-partner John Byrne has revealed that he is the child of an incestuous relationship between his mother and grandfather.

Byrne, an artist and writer, told The Times that he found out that he is the son of his mother Alice and her father Patrick McShane in 2002 when he and Swinton were in their home in Scotland.

His cousin Aileen told him the news when she rang to tell him that her mother Helen had died.

"[Helen] told Aileen what my mother had told her, when she was much younger. Aileen asked Tilda, 'Do you think I should tell Iain (a family name for Byrne)?' Tilda said, 'You’ve got to tell him.' She called me in and handed me the phone," he said.

Byrne said that "everything fell into place" when he was told.

"My mother was constantly voyaging out to Cardonald (where his grandparents lived). I once thought she wanted him to go down on his bended knee and beg forgiveness. No. She was in love with her own father, utterly and totally."

"She just wanted to be in his company. She couldn’t even confess it. My own father [his mother’s husband, Patrick Byrne] didn’t know."

Speaking of incest, Byrne said: "That's what they do in Ireland."

"I think he gave me that wonderful mixture of genes with his own daughter, the eldest of the family. That’s what they do in Ireland. I presume it’s what they do in unlettered places and lettered places. It’s traditional, and nobody speaks about it."

Byrne's mother died in a hospital in the 1980s after a long struggle with mental illness, while his grandfather and father died of cancer.

Byrne and Swinton split in 2005 and have two children together.

flutered

i know of a brother and sister living together and raising a family

wakka12

Disturbing. No Ive never heard of it happening with anybody I know, but I doubt incestuous couples would be too loud about their relationships anyway as its not exactly accepted by many

hungry hypno toad

Just saw that article and was wondering why there was no thread on here.

Yer man sounds (and looks) like a gob****e. For his sake I will assume these are a result of the incest.

Super-Rush

Yes i know a lot of people from Roscommon.

corner of hells

Super-Rush wrote: »

Yes i know a lot of people from Roscommon.

Cavan too , particularly around the lakes.The webbed feet are handy there.
Though the question must be asked if a Cavan man divorces his wife , are they still cousins?

RiderOnTheStorm

Does abuse 'trump' incest? There does seem to be reports in media almost weekly of uncles & niece, mothers watching / aiding abuse of their kid. Is this incest?

Senna

shugy wrote: »

Speaking of incest, Byrne said: "That's what they do in Ireland."

That’s what they do in Ireland.

**** off, it's no more common in Ireland than it is in any other country, ie. Not very common

phill106

Just my mum, my wife and my sister....
Reminds me must get a mothers day present!

It's strange how he characterizes his mother as being 'in love' with her father, instead of in thrall. If she was a child when the incest started, then her devotion to her father is a symptom of something much less benign. One person was in a position of trust and authority over the other, it leaves very little room for it being a simple case of falling in love with a person who happens to be your father.

Help!!!!

Your sister is your mother
your father is your brother
you like to f**k each other
( add name ) Family.

judeboy101

A newly recognised minority in this country have no problem with it.

shugy

shugy wrote: »

"I think he gave me that wonderful mixture of genes with his own daughter, the eldest of the family. That’s what they do in Ireland. I presume it’s what they do in unlettered places and lettered places. It’s traditional, and nobody speaks about it".

It's not what we do, it's not traditional, and if it involves a parent/child and possible undertones of grooming or straightforward statutory rape, it's depraved. If it's brother and sister above the age of consent, possibly not as outrageous...but still far for traditional.

TheBeach

It sounds like he was just trying in some ways to normalise the relationship between his mother mother and grandfather. I suppose how else would he cope?

DontThankMe

We are all related in a way according to the Bible Adam and Eve got us all started

AryaStark

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

Does abuse 'trump' incest? There does seem to be reports in media almost weekly of uncles & niece, mothers watching / aiding abuse of their kid. Is this incest?

No this is not incest it is rape and sexual abuse.

Also the daughter that fell in love with her Dad... I think this was also rape and abuse and the girl was probably mentally disturbed by it.

My name is URL

Senna wrote: »

**** off, it's no more common in Ireland than it is in any other country, ie. Not very common

Sounds like he's trying to normalize it in his own mind

Probably makes it easier to deal with when he tells himself it's not that abnormal. Same as how some abuse victims do

This Byrne guy even refers to his mothers long struggle with mental illness, but still characterizes this story as being a love story.

He seems like the kind of person who has difficulty in connecting the dots.

hungry hypno toad

Does he have an exhibition or book just out?

My name is URL

Candie wrote: »

He seems like the kind of person who has difficulty in connecting the dots.

Well he is inbred. Cut him some slack!

topmanamillion

I never heard of this absolute tool before.

1. Why would you go to the papers with something like this? These are the very kind of Z lister`s that end up on the Late Late giving out about the paps intruding on their personal lives.
2. I wonder how I`d get on insulting any other nationality with a clear false hood like this:

shugy wrote: »

Speaking of incest, Byrne said: "That's what they do in Ireland."

"I think he gave me that wonderful mixture of genes with his own daughter, the eldest of the family. That’s what they do in Ireland. I presume it’s what they do in unlettered places and lettered places. It’s traditional, and nobody speaks about it."

goose2005

Senna wrote: »

**** off, it's no more common in Ireland than it is in any other country, ie. Not very common

Incest was historically extremely rare in Ireland, even marriage to a third cousin required special permission from a bishop.

RayM

Incest - the game the whole family can play.

Although we always preferred Scrabble or the Game of Life.

Red Kev

shugy wrote: »

Speaking of incest, Byrne said:

Rrriiggghhttt. Swap that for: "That's what they do in Romania/Syria/Nigeria." and we'd have some mega clusterfcuk on Twitter/FB/wherever.

Gobshlte.

Kermit.de.frog

Never come across it personally.

I do know Trump wants to bang his own daughter though.

Lady is a tramp

My counsellor, an addiction therapist, says that she reckons 80%-90% of her clients are survivors of child sexual abuse, and it's almost always a family member involved.

I'm a survivor myself, and I think it's difficult to distinguish between incest and sex abuse. Regardless of the ages of those involved, there's usually only one person with power and control in the situation. I was only three when it started, so I guess it's more "clear cut" that I'd no choice in it - it didn't stop me blaming myself entirely for it until quite recently. For others who might be older - but still vulnerable in whatever way - the distinction is even more difficult, and the guilt and shame are even harder to escape.

Many of my closest friends who I've met throughout my recovery have survived all sorts of horrific abuse situations. I've heard firsthand so many stories, from siblings "experimenting" as teenagers, to really sadistic cruel violent abuse of young children.

It's easy to joke about "incest is best" etc etc whatever, but when you know so many very real normal good people who've been directly affected by it ... it's more common than most people would ever imagine, and the damage done is extremely deep and permanent and so difficult to ever come back from.

micar

Ex claimed siblings from a large family in athlone living in a small 3 bed semi where shagging eachother.

Apparently it was well known

There was a spider in the bath last night...

lazybones32

I only know of some travelers who marry their cousins: 2nd and 3rd, which is far too close to be allowed legally but the Church accommodates and the State allows.

Noddyholder

corner of hells wrote: »

Cavan too , particularly around the lakes.The webbed feet are handy there.
Though the question must be asked if a Cavan man divorces his wife , are they still cousins?

Get the **** you :mad:



A boy is ****ing his sister and says: "Damn, you're much better than mum."
His sister replies: "Yeah, dad thinks so, too.":D:D

ToddyDoody

I wikipedia'ed it.Now you can too

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_in_film_and_television

sabat

The most interesting thing about that quote is that the events he describes occurred in Scotland and were committed by Scottish people (and given that his mother was schizophrenic, may not actually have happened.)

sunbeam

lazybones32 wrote: »

I only know of some travelers who marry their cousins: 2nd and 3rd, which is far too close to be allowed legally but the Church accommodates and the State allows.

It is only the church that requires a dispensation. Cousin marriage is legal in Ireland.

aujopimur

Does the dog count?.

Samuel T. Cogley

I hear products of incest cant tell the difference between the word 'of' and 'off'.

darkdubh

This thread reminded me of a case in Scotland from a few years ago.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/brother-and-sister-who-had-sex-in-motherwell-1084260

lazybones32

sunbeam wrote: »

It is only the church that requires a dispensation. Cousin marriage is legal in Ireland.

I didn't think marriage would be allowed between cousins so close though? I know that the Church would allow marriage between close relatives once the woman went past child-bearing age.

Wanderer2010

I know people poke fun at the travellers or certain Counties in Ireland but the truth is stranger than fiction and there have been cases of incest in completely conventional families, where no abuse or history of incest exists. These middle class, highly educated families often contain more than a skeleton or two in the closet. Its a cliché to attribute incest to one or two classes of society.

myshirt

With recent trends and liberalism, there will be a referendum on this in no time.

Same-family marriage. And if you are against it, the lefties will be out in force.

Avatar MIA

I can't exactly remember the logic behind it, but I saw a documentary previously that stated incest would explain the number of descendants (of ancestors) there currently are. And that our antecedents should be far more numerous if not for incest.

I know I'm not explaining it well.

222233

If you consider the debatable "electra complex" (daughter in competition with mother for possession of father). If this theory is indeed true and can be transferred cross-family then perhaps incestuous tendencies where mutual are formed at some point during development... Also the ideology that girls for example look for their father in their partners, maybe in some cases somewhere along the way something happens that causes these inherit traits to become more profound.

lazybones32

myshirt wrote: »

With recent trends and liberalism, there will be a referendum on this in no time.

Same-family marriage. And if you are against it, the lefties will be out in force.

'Hey, if they're not hurting anyone...', 'their body, their choice', 'you can't choose who you're attracted to or fall in love with', 'grá is the law'.

Water John

My understanding was, there was no issue with 2nd and 3rd cousins but needed a church dispensation for 1st cousins.

CrabRevolution

It's pretty clear this guy pulled this "fact" out of his ass as a coping mechanism to try and normalise his situation. I'd imagine it's a tough thing to try and come to terms with in your head. Publicly slandering an entire country isn't the best way to do it though.

222233

myshirt wrote: »

With recent trends and liberalism, there will be a referendum on this in no time.

Same-family marriage. And if you are against it, the lefties will be out in force.

This is true, there will.. maybe not in our lifetime but one day. Although in the future people will probably be grown in labs, completely unique entities. I don't really care who someone falls in love with, once both parties are consenting and stable. In hindsight though the implications for the children born in these kind of relationships are too prominent for me to agree with something like this.

Annasopra

lazybones32 wrote: »

I didn't think marriage would be allowed between cousins so close though? I know that the Church would allow marriage between close relatives once the woman went past child-bearing age.

First cousin marriage is legal in Ireland.

CrabRevolution

I was driven to look up this topic. Seems first cousin marriage is actually legal nearly everywhere. Fewer than 10 countries have an outright ban on it according to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#/media/File:CousinMarriageWorld.svg

A special dispensation is needed to get a Catholic marriage to a relative. 60 years ago, 1 in every 200 Irish marriages needed such a dispensation. I can only imagine it's far fewer now.

http://www.consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence_tables

Alf Stewart.

My mate swears blind that he was at a house party a few years ago with his ex. Anyway, he says he passed out on an armchair after too much of the hard stuff.

Says he woke up at 4/5 in the morning to witness a porno playing on the tv, and his (ex) girlfriend, wearing not a washer, canoodling with another lad on the sofa, who was gleefully sucking and fondling her breasts. While she was chatting on his microphone.

He says he got up, asked them wtf was going on, they replied by jeering and mocking him. He then said he walked home, all eight miles.


Problem was, the lad in question and his ex girlfriend were brother and sister. I know both, and they're from quite a respectful family, and both have fairly decent high paying jobs.

Takes all sorts I suppose.

Littlehorny

Know of a girl who had a relationship with her Uncle (her fathers brother) and had a couple of kids for him over the course of a few years.

Wibbs

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

My mate swears blind that he was at a house party a few years ago with his ex....

I have heard that or similar tales of brother sister shenanigans at parties since I was a nipper. The videotape element came along about the 90's from what I recall. No doubt for younger folks there's a version where such couplings are seen on the interwebs.

Alf Stewart.

Wibbs wrote: »

I have heard that or similar tales of brother sister shenanigans at parties since I was a nipper. The videotape element came along about the 90's from what I recall. No doubt for younger folks there's a version where such couplings are seen on the interwebs.

Ah in fairness wibbs, this bloke was one of my closest friends, as honest and decent fella as you could ever wish to meet.

He has told me some other stories about that hag he used to be engaged to, and there's no doubt in my mind that he was telling me the truth.

Haven't seen him in years through a combination of me living abroad, and then moving away from home when I came back to Ireland. But I believe hes a wino on the streets of London these days, this was a lad with some seeious academic qualifications btw. Their break up contributed to that, no doubt in my mind at all. Such a waste.