Victim Blaming

Jayop

We had this whole row about people minding themselves on the way home from a night out and how it was victim blaming. My argument was then and is now that while, yes the main people who should be told to adjust their behaviors are those who go out and attack people, telling potential victims to look after themselves and take reasonable precautions because arseholes exist is no bad thing.

The Oort Cloud

Maybe it's the case that there are much more sociopaths and psychopaths moving around the scene lately, must be a genetic problem escalating from the last 50 years to the way it is nowadays. Some people need to be reminded and the case of being aware at times, especially paddy's day. Wasn't he Scottish?.

RicePat

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Joe.ie is playin' y'all for clicks yo.

They were just one of the outlets that picked it up. It's all over the bloody media today

Irish Guitarist

It's not victim blaming. It's advising people how to lessen their risk of becoming a potential victim.

The writer of that article is an absolute moron. What does he want the police to do? Tell people to go and drink until they pass out in some alley? And don't worry if you get raped, at least you'll know it wasn't your fault.

Maximus Alexander

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

Irish Guitarist

Seemingly the tweet has been removed. Now they have a tweet telling men not to rape women which is absolutely ridiculous. I can just imagine a rapist reading that and thinking "oh, raping is frowned upon is it? What? It's even worse than that? Now you're telling me it's actually a crime? Sorry I didn't realise that. Boy is my face red. No more raping for me".



The police should also stop advising people to invest in burglar alarms and tell them not to lock their doors. Instead they should tell burglars to stop breaking in to peoples houses. They probably think it's a legitimate profession and need to be told otherwise.

blue note

I also like the line on the poster telling people to call the psni for more information on it. How exactly would that conversation go?

seamus

blue note wrote: »

I also like the line on the poster telling people to call the psni for more information on it. How exactly would that conversation go?

Realistically that number is there for people who want to get into more depth on it - that is, holding workshops at clubs on the topic, or whatever.

blue note

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

johnnyskeleton

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

Wasn't he Scottish?.

He was Welsh, but what does that have to do with anything. Stop victim blaming St. Patrick for wanting to be abducted and sold into slavery.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

I think because the tweet didn't mention women, rape or sexual assaults.
It's clearly just a stay safe message for everybody. Which is ok

Jayop

blue note wrote: »

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

In an ideal world you shouldn't need to warn people to be careful of other people on a night out, just be careful of themselves. It's not an ideal world though and bad people exist everywhere so pretending they don't is completely counter productive.

We as a society have moved on a long way from the "look what she was wearing/she was asking for it" attitude that was prevalent. No-one is every saying it's the victims fault for being attacked, regardless of the circumstances. The weight of blame lies 100% with the attacker, however advising people to take preventative steps to avoid being a victim is still wise.

johnnyskeleton

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The police should also stop advising people to invest in burglar alarms and tell them not to lock their doors. Instead they should tell burglars to stop breaking in to peoples houses. They probably think it's a legitimate profession and need to be told otherwise.

"Without consent it is rape" and shows a man in a police cell.

So if the police put me in a cell without my consent they have raped me? Is that the message?

CalamariFritti

Ah the good old days when not every f***wits opinion was heard.

hungry hypno toad

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

I think I just did accidentally. Passed through a tunnel as I voted then when I refreshed the page I think I left it at Yes. Sorry. ðŸ˜

jimgoose

The Oort Cloud

Poor Paddy. If we could only shut down all of Irelands off-licenses for paddy's day, it would be a better celebration I think. Alcohol destroys the feeling of it all.

Burp!

wakka12

I think its silly that women react like this when people give them advice on how to stay safe. They are looking out for them.Obviously in an ideal world women would live freely without threat of rape, but its much easier to tell girls how to protect themselves. As they will want to listen,as this will protect them. Telling men not to rape is ridiculous, because the ****ed up individuals who will commit rape are not the most level headed people, willing to listen to this advice

If somebody tells me to wear a fanny pack when Im travelling in Barcelona or a dodgy city so Im not robbed, I don't say no I wont do that because we should be telling the barcelona pick pockets not to rob, not telling me to change my lifestyle to avoid being robbed. Its just ridiculous

Some things in life are just not ideal, and very hard to change, so women just have to deal with this possibility of being attacked, and limit this possibility as best as they can

Irish Guitarist

Unbelievable. They have another highly offensive tweet on their page. https://twitter.com/PSNINewry/status/829072568787333121

Never click on links unless you are 100% sure what it is.

Viruses infect your device and leak your personal data

#SID2017
#CyberSafety

If I want to click on a link that's exactly what I'll do and I'm not going to let anyone stop me. Why don't they tell hackers to stop creating viruses instead of victim blaming? Disgraceful behaviour.

retro:electro

People are confusing and renouncing personal responsibility for victim blaming. Victim blaming would be saying "you deserved it, what else did you expect would happen", not "best not to leave your bag open waking through town, there are serious weirdos about who would take advantage of the fact that it's left open". I detest that people can't even be told to mind themselves now or it's assumed you're blaming them for whatever could potentially happen them.

Que some people "ya well I deserve to have the right to walk around town with my bag open if I so please! If some creep takes my money that is their fault! I won't be oppressed and told to close my bag for fear of being robbed in this male privilege society! Ugh!"
No. There will always be weirdos. And any man women or child could rob your money, so do what you can do to potentially prevent that and close your bag. That is not me victim blaming. That is me telling you to have some cop on for yourself.
People take measures to avoid being in sh!tty situations all the time, that is not victim blaming, that is called being a responsible adult.

Before Christmas the Guards also tweeted for people to be mindful that it's prime time for homes to be robbed and always make sure always your windows and doors are locked when you leave the house. Is that also the state blaming the potential victim and not the attacker? Or them just doing their best to ensure that while sh!tty things will always happen, you should do your best to try and protect yourself from something sh!tty happening to you.

TBH, the outrage brigade will always find something to be offended by and feel oppressed over.

gooch2k9

I get that Joe.ie is your stereotypical clickbait website(I wish they'd get DDOS'd when they write the likes of this!) but what is with the constant media onslaught of trying to frame everything as men v women?

It's obvious what they are doing but you see some pretty educated people, or so it would seem, buying into it. Not everything is a them v us situation.

Half of these ones just don't want to take responsibility for themselves. I live in the north, I don't get pissed drunk and wander singing republican ballads in loyalist estates! Common sense is all the police were trying to get across from what I can see.

__Alex__

_Brian wrote: »

Asking people to take sensible precautions isn't victim blaming it's helping people not become victims in the first place.

That's like saying that by me installing cctv and an alarm that it's my fault my neighbors house is robbed because they have neither.

Yes, that's what I don't get about cries of victim-blaming. Does that mean any precaution anyone is advised to take against any crime is a case of victim-blaming?

Ulysses Gaze

RicePat wrote: »

There's a bit of a furore over a Tweet the PSNI put out last night.

https://www.joe.ie/news/pic-psni-tweet-tells-women-not-get-raped-weekend-581690

"If you’re going out this weekend put your safety first. Don’t overindulge, stay with your friends and get home safely. #StaySafe pic.twitter.com/QBEGORCTHv

— PSNI Newry & Mourne (@PSNINewry) March 15, 2017"

There seems to be a split between whether this is sensible advice that everyone should listen to or "victim blaming."

I cannot for the life of me see how this could be considered anything close to victim blaming. It seems like a plea for all people (not just women, which seems to be what those crying victim blaming are implying) to look after themselves and their friends.

Does anybody genuinely think there's anything wrong with this Tweet?

Only the professionally offended would consider anything wrong with this tweet.

Outlaw Pete

A (Feminist) Police Commissioner in the UK recently condemned a female judge's comments made as she sentenced a man for raping a drunk girl. The Commissioner said that the judge's comments were 'victim blaming'.

Judge accused of 'victim-blaming' over rape comments

A female judge's warning that drunk women are putting themselves at greater risk of rape was "victim-blaming", a police commissioner has said.
Judge Lindsey Kushner QC said women were entitled to "drink themselves into the ground" but their "disinhibited behaviour" could put them in danger.



Judge Kushner, 64, made the courtroom plea as she jailed a man for six years for raping an 18-year-old woman in Manchester last year.

The mother of two, who has sat as a senior circuit judge since 2002, acknowledged judges have been criticised for "putting more emphasis on what girls should and shouldn't do than on the act and the blame to be apportioned to rapists".

"There is absolutely no excuse and a woman can do with her body what she wants and a man will have to adjust his behaviour accordingly."

But she added "as a woman judge" it would "be remiss" if she did not plead with women to protect themselves from predatory men who ''gravitate'' towards drunken females.

But former Labour MP Ms Baird told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "When somebody is raped they feel guilt and shame and they find it very hard to report it.

"If a judge has just said to them 'Well, if you drank you are more likely to get raped, we are not likely to believe you and you have been disinhibited so you've rather brought it on yourself' then that guilt is just going to get worse."

Ms Baird, a former solicitor general and ex-defence barrister, said the judge should have given advice to help women stay safe instead of implying "it's your fault for having attracted him in the first place".

"This looks like victim-blaming and they (organisations such as Rape Crisis) are worried that, yet again, it is going to become harder to get women to make reports," she said.

"That's a terrible shame."

Well, the girl at the centre of that rape case has given an interview to the BBC and in it she has defended the Judge and said that she was right to say what she did and does not agree with the claims that her comments were victim blaming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfV2W4LX_tE

More of the above interview here.

Jayop

Brave young woman.

Noveight

Joe.ie struggling to write anything seeing as McGregor hasn't done much in the past while.

__Alex__

Noveight wrote: »

Joe.ie struggling to write anything seeing as McGregor hasn't done much in the past while.

Yes, I think the upshot of this thread is a reminder that joe.ie is a big pile of shite!

Grayson

gooch2k9 wrote: »

but what is with the constant media onslaught of trying to frame everything as men v women?

I believe you answered that.

gooch2k9 wrote: »

I get that Joe.ie is your stereotypical clickbait website

I never visit that site and I clicked on the link the OP put up. It's got nothing of any substance there yet it's being passed around. It's a site trolling just to get clicks.

RicePat

__Alex__ wrote: »

Yes, I think the upshot of this thread is a reminder that joe.ie is a big pile of shite!

I really wish I had have linked one of the other sites instead. Loads of newspapers ran with it, particularly northern ones. I get what youre saying about Joe.ie but really they were far from the only ones to print it