Victim Blaming

RicePat

There's a bit of a furore over a Tweet the PSNI put out last night.

https://www.joe.ie/news/pic-psni-tweet-tells-women-not-get-raped-weekend-581690

"If you’re going out this weekend put your safety first. Don’t overindulge, stay with your friends and get home safely. #StaySafe pic.twitter.com/QBEGORCTHv

— PSNI Newry & Mourne (@PSNINewry) March 15, 2017"

There seems to be a split between whether this is sensible advice that everyone should listen to or "victim blaming."

I cannot for the life of me see how this could be considered anything close to victim blaming. It seems like a plea for all people (not just women, which seems to be what those crying victim blaming are implying) to look after themselves and their friends.

Does anybody genuinely think there's anything wrong with this Tweet?

xabi

Where does it say in the tweet that its aimed at women? Looks like the usual Joe crap twisting it to cause outrage.

D0NNELLY

Of course there's not

D0NNELLY

Do the trolls actually want the psni to tweet the criminals? Doubt they'd listen.

Raging_Ninja

If you're relying on somebody else to look after you and you're not a child or disabled, you've gone fairly wrong in life.

It doesn't say anything about women or rape or sexual assaults in that tweet?

_Brian

Asking people to take sensible precautions isn't victim blaming it's helping people not become victims in the first place.

That's like saying that by me installing cctv and an alarm that it's my fault my neighbors house is robbed because they have neither.

biko

Only outrage merchants would be able to read something bad into that.

blue note

There should be an additional options in the poll for yes in relation to women, but not in relation to men.

I think that tweet is highly offensive. They should instead have tweeted "please remember guys, don't rape anyone this weekend." Men have created a culture already where rape is a socially acceptable every day occurrence so even when they don't rape people themselves, they are still responsible for others who do. Women have played no part in the creation of society so are responsible for nothing.

Maximus Alexander

blue note wrote: »

There should be an additional options in the poll for yes in relation to women, but not in relation to men.

I think that tweet is highly offensive. They should instead have tweeted "please remember guys, don't rape anyone this weekend." Men have created a culture already where rape is a socially acceptable every day occurrence so even when they don't rape people themselves, they are still responsible for others who do. Women have played no part in the creation of society so are responsible for nothing.

This falls foul of Poe's Law.

RicePat

bubblypop wrote: »

It doesn't say anything about women or rape or sexual assaults in that tweet?

Exactly, it seems to be certain individuals and groups on the radio making this implication themselves.

seamus

Being drunk and alone massively increases your risk of getting accidentally injured or dying.

That's basically what they're saying - don't get too drunk, stick with your mates, and don't take risks getting yourself home. Then you're less likely to be found lying face down in a canal.

Seems obvious that some idiot at Joe.ie has decided to read the tweet in one very specific way and get really annoyed about something that it doesn't actually say.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

There should be an additional options in the poll for yes in relation to women, but not in relation to men.

I think that tweet is highly offensive. They should instead have tweeted "please remember guys, don't rape anyone this weekend." Men have created a culture already where rape is a socially acceptable every day occurrence so even when they don't rape people themselves, they are still responsible for others who do. Women have played no part in the creation of society so are responsible for nothing.

It doesn't say anything about women or rape or anything like it?

Lau2976

I can see how this could be offensive. Victims are often faced with questions about these things when reporting a rape after a night out.

"How much had you to drink?" "Why were you alone?" "Where were your friends" "Why did you go home with that guy?" "Why didn't someone walk you home?" Etc.

I don't read it that way tbh, and I think it applies to anybody but I can see why some would see it that way.

jimgoose

blue note wrote: »

There should be an additional options in the poll for yes in relation to women, but not in relation to men.

I think that tweet is highly offensive. They should instead have tweeted "please remember guys, don't rape anyone this weekend." Men have created a culture already where rape is a socially acceptable every day occurrence so even when they don't rape people themselves, they are still responsible for others who do. Women have played no part in the creation of society so are responsible for nothing.

Worthy of the great Godfrey Elfwick xirself. I salute!

ScumLord

seamus wrote: »

Being drunk and alone massively increases your risk of getting accidentally injured

Maybe, but at least nobody see's you made a fool of yourself.

Your Face

You'd think the ballbag that wrote this would be too embarrassed to put his name and photo to the article.

valoren

It's like when you work in an office and the day of the Christmas or Summer party, HR send a company wide email re-iterating the company policy of a code of conduct.

They might as well say, "Please refrain from getting so **** faced that you vomit all over the receptionist. Or get so drunk that you get into a loud argument with a potted plant. Or that you think setting off the fire alarm at 4am is funny. It isn't. The only thing that will be 'fired' will be you".

RicePat

blue note wrote: »

There should be an additional options in the poll for yes in relation to women, but not in relation to men.

I think that tweet is highly offensive. They should instead have tweeted "please remember guys, don't rape anyone this weekend." Men have created a culture already where rape is a socially acceptable every day occurrence so even when they don't rape people themselves, they are still responsible for others who do. Women have played no part in the creation of society so are responsible for nothing.

Was gonna respond to this but then I realised it was a pisstake. Im an idiot. Still though, it's not that far off from some of the replies various news sites carrying this have gotten on facebook

freshpopcorn

I've friends both male and female who'd I'd be concerned about after a night out simply because of how drunk they get and how much of a danger they'd be to themselves ie falling over on the street or out in front of traffic or taking stupid risks. Great Tweet in my opinion. People need to look out for themselves and their friend more!

There aren't many things that drive me nuts but "victim blaming" does. I read the tweet to mean simply stay safe. How anyone can interpret more than that baffles me.

I'm not going to walk down any dark lanes wearing only a small towel or even fully clothed. Nor am I going to leave my car unlocked with a laptop and phone in full view.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

RicePat

Deleted User wrote: »

There aren't many things that drive me nuts but "victim blaming" does. I read the tweet to mean simply stay safe. How anyone can interpret more than that baffles me.

I'm not going to walk down any dark lanes wearing only a small towel or even fully clothed. Nor am I going to leave my car unlocked with a laptop and phone in full view.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

And even if you did the fault would lay 100% with the person who assaulted you or stole your property.

But as you say, that still doesn't mean you shouldn't take reasonable precautions for your own safety

suicide_circus

advice directed at everyone: good

advice directed at girls: victim blaming

Wildcard7

suicide_circus wrote: »

advice directed at everyone: good

advice directed at girls: victim blaming

Advice directed at everyone: good
Advice directed at girls: still good
Advice directed at actual victims (people who have been attacked/molested/whatevered): Victim blaming. It's not helpful - the question "would it still have happened if you hadn't been so drunk/scantily clad" can't be answered and it wouldn't legitimate what happened anyway.

suicide_circus

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Advice directed at everyone: good
Advice directed at girls: still good
Advice directed at actual victims (people who have been attacked/molested/whatevered): Victim blaming. It's not helpful - the question "would it still have happened if you hadn't been so drunk/scantily clad" can't be answered and it wouldn't legitimate what happened anyway.

That sounds fair but is not consistent with what actually happens

RicePat

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Advice directed at everyone: good
Advice directed at girls: still good
Advice directed at actual victims (people who have been attacked/molested/whatevered): Victim blaming. It's not helpful - the question "would it still have happened if you hadn't been so drunk/scantily clad" can't be answered and it wouldn't legitimate what happened anyway.

Of course not. But that's not what's happening here and not what's happening 90% of the time someone cries "victim blaming."

Wildcard7

RicePat wrote: »

Of course not. But that's not what's happening here and not what's happening 90% of the time someone cries "victim blaming."

I'm only expressing the way I see it.

The current trend of everyone being offended at everything is different cup of tea.

lawred2

RicePat wrote: »

There's a bit of a furore over a Tweet the PSNI put out last night.

https://www.joe.ie/news/pic-psni-tweet-tells-women-not-get-raped-weekend-581690

"If you’re going out this weekend put your safety first. Don’t overindulge, stay with your friends and get home safely. #StaySafe pic.twitter.com/QBEGORCTHv

— PSNI Newry & Mourne (@PSNINewry) March 15, 2017"

There seems to be a split between whether this is sensible advice that everyone should listen to or "victim blaming."

I cannot for the life of me see how this could be considered anything close to victim blaming. It seems like a plea for all people (not just women, which seems to be what those crying victim blaming are implying) to look after themselves and their friends.

Does anybody genuinely think there's anything wrong with this Tweet?

since when was advice given by every parent/guardian to every son & daughter since time began victim blaming?

The Oort Cloud

It seems to me like wise advice. I don't get the victim blaming notion to be honest.

Junkyard Tom

Joe.ie is playin' y'all for clicks yo.

johnnyskeleton

The only politically correct non rape culture non victim blaming message would be:

Alcohol exists in the world. Consume it to excess. Or not. Its up to you. We dont care. Sorry we even tweeted

Is he the guy who was on the Louise O Neill show about rape culture who was talking about how bad men were?

Jayop

We had this whole row about people minding themselves on the way home from a night out and how it was victim blaming. My argument was then and is now that while, yes the main people who should be told to adjust their behaviors are those who go out and attack people, telling potential victims to look after themselves and take reasonable precautions because arseholes exist is no bad thing.

The Oort Cloud

Maybe it's the case that there are much more sociopaths and psychopaths moving around the scene lately, must be a genetic problem escalating from the last 50 years to the way it is nowadays. Some people need to be reminded and the case of being aware at times, especially paddy's day. Wasn't he Scottish?.

RicePat

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Joe.ie is playin' y'all for clicks yo.

They were just one of the outlets that picked it up. It's all over the bloody media today

Irish Guitarist

It's not victim blaming. It's advising people how to lessen their risk of becoming a potential victim.

The writer of that article is an absolute moron. What does he want the police to do? Tell people to go and drink until they pass out in some alley? And don't worry if you get raped, at least you'll know it wasn't your fault.

Maximus Alexander

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

Irish Guitarist

Seemingly the tweet has been removed. Now they have a tweet telling men not to rape women which is absolutely ridiculous. I can just imagine a rapist reading that and thinking "oh, raping is frowned upon is it? What? It's even worse than that? Now you're telling me it's actually a crime? Sorry I didn't realise that. Boy is my face red. No more raping for me".



The police should also stop advising people to invest in burglar alarms and tell them not to lock their doors. Instead they should tell burglars to stop breaking in to peoples houses. They probably think it's a legitimate profession and need to be told otherwise.

blue note

I also like the line on the poster telling people to call the psni for more information on it. How exactly would that conversation go?

seamus

blue note wrote: »

I also like the line on the poster telling people to call the psni for more information on it. How exactly would that conversation go?

Realistically that number is there for people who want to get into more depth on it - that is, holding workshops at clubs on the topic, or whatever.

blue note

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

johnnyskeleton

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

Wasn't he Scottish?.

He was Welsh, but what does that have to do with anything. Stop victim blaming St. Patrick for wanting to be abducted and sold into slavery.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

I think because the tweet didn't mention women, rape or sexual assaults.
It's clearly just a stay safe message for everybody. Which is ok

Jayop

blue note wrote: »

I'm actually very surprised that this thread hasn't been taken over by people attacking other posters for victim blaming. Usually the merest suggestion that any accountability could rest with a woman in relation to personal safety when drinking results in an on-line lynching of those posters. I'm not too sure why this thread is different to be honest. Possibly because no-one is bringing up specific cases of assault. But I don't think they were always necessary in past threads.

In an ideal world you shouldn't need to warn people to be careful of other people on a night out, just be careful of themselves. It's not an ideal world though and bad people exist everywhere so pretending they don't is completely counter productive.

We as a society have moved on a long way from the "look what she was wearing/she was asking for it" attitude that was prevalent. No-one is every saying it's the victims fault for being attacked, regardless of the circumstances. The weight of blame lies 100% with the attacker, however advising people to take preventative steps to avoid being a victim is still wise.

johnnyskeleton

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The police should also stop advising people to invest in burglar alarms and tell them not to lock their doors. Instead they should tell burglars to stop breaking in to peoples houses. They probably think it's a legitimate profession and need to be told otherwise.

"Without consent it is rape" and shows a man in a police cell.

So if the police put me in a cell without my consent they have raped me? Is that the message?

CalamariFritti

Ah the good old days when not every f***wits opinion was heard.

hungry hypno toad

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not even one person has trolled in a 'yes' vote yet. This is weird. Are we still on the internet?

I think I just did accidentally. Passed through a tunnel as I voted then when I refreshed the page I think I left it at Yes. Sorry. ðŸ˜

jimgoose

The Oort Cloud

Poor Paddy. If we could only shut down all of Irelands off-licenses for paddy's day, it would be a better celebration I think. Alcohol destroys the feeling of it all.

Burp!

wakka12

I think its silly that women react like this when people give them advice on how to stay safe. They are looking out for them.Obviously in an ideal world women would live freely without threat of rape, but its much easier to tell girls how to protect themselves. As they will want to listen,as this will protect them. Telling men not to rape is ridiculous, because the ****ed up individuals who will commit rape are not the most level headed people, willing to listen to this advice

If somebody tells me to wear a fanny pack when Im travelling in Barcelona or a dodgy city so Im not robbed, I don't say no I wont do that because we should be telling the barcelona pick pockets not to rob, not telling me to change my lifestyle to avoid being robbed. Its just ridiculous

Some things in life are just not ideal, and very hard to change, so women just have to deal with this possibility of being attacked, and limit this possibility as best as they can

Irish Guitarist

Unbelievable. They have another highly offensive tweet on their page. https://twitter.com/PSNINewry/status/829072568787333121

Never click on links unless you are 100% sure what it is.

Viruses infect your device and leak your personal data

#SID2017
#CyberSafety

If I want to click on a link that's exactly what I'll do and I'm not going to let anyone stop me. Why don't they tell hackers to stop creating viruses instead of victim blaming? Disgraceful behaviour.

retro:electro

People are confusing and renouncing personal responsibility for victim blaming. Victim blaming would be saying "you deserved it, what else did you expect would happen", not "best not to leave your bag open waking through town, there are serious weirdos about who would take advantage of the fact that it's left open". I detest that people can't even be told to mind themselves now or it's assumed you're blaming them for whatever could potentially happen them.

Que some people "ya well I deserve to have the right to walk around town with my bag open if I so please! If some creep takes my money that is their fault! I won't be oppressed and told to close my bag for fear of being robbed in this male privilege society! Ugh!"
No. There will always be weirdos. And any man women or child could rob your money, so do what you can do to potentially prevent that and close your bag. That is not me victim blaming. That is me telling you to have some cop on for yourself.
People take measures to avoid being in sh!tty situations all the time, that is not victim blaming, that is called being a responsible adult.

Before Christmas the Guards also tweeted for people to be mindful that it's prime time for homes to be robbed and always make sure always your windows and doors are locked when you leave the house. Is that also the state blaming the potential victim and not the attacker? Or them just doing their best to ensure that while sh!tty things will always happen, you should do your best to try and protect yourself from something sh!tty happening to you.

TBH, the outrage brigade will always find something to be offended by and feel oppressed over.