Undocumented versus Illegal Immigrants

Teebor15

With regards to the US, why are Mexicans regarded as "Illegal Immigrants" whereas us Irish are described as "Undocumented"...whats the difference?

tomwaterford

Undocumented can't translate into mexican

hungry hypno toad

Both illegal, there is no difference.

Hande hoche!

Pretty much the same thing, Illegal sounds less appealing. See also prostitutes and sex workers.

frag420

Senór Undocumente...

Fratton Fred

Immigrant/expat

myshirt

King Kong versus Godzilla, now there's a movie I'd like to see

Timberrrrrrrr

Only Irish people call them undocumented everyone else calls them illegal immigrants

Hande hoche!

myshirt wrote: »

King Kong versus Godzilla, now there's a movie I'd like to see

That's due in 2020.

Barry Badrinath

frag420 wrote: »

Senór Undocumente...

You leave my uncle outta this!

Peregrinus

The choice between "undocumented immigrant" and "illegal immigrants" generally tells you more about the person using the term than it does about the people to whom it refers.

People who say "undocumented immigrants" are trying to get you to realise that it's not, in fact, against the law to be in the US without the appropriate visa. People who say "illegal immigrants" are trying to make you think it is (and, in fairness to them, may themselves think that it is).

But there isn't one law for Mexicans and another for the Irish. If you're calling Mexicans "illegal" but the Irish "undocumented" you're just not thinking straight.

osarusan

Different connotations.

hungry hypno toad

myshirt wrote: »

King Kong versus Godzilla, now there's a movie I'd like to see

Saw King Kongs finger in my toilet bowl last night, no sign of Godzilla though unfortunately.

suicide_circus

It's a euphemistic term used by apologists for illegal irish in the US. It's marketing, dear.

biko

I live in constant fear that Trump will deport my latina mother-in-law who lives at 1837 3rd st, LA 90023 blue house. she gets off work at 6

https://twitter.com/AntonRubaclini/status/837374673440522240

dan1895

The term undocumented makes it sound like their paperwork was misplaced.

pickarooney

Are we not calling them aliens any more?

Noddyholder

Well as us Irish would never dare break any laws anywhere and we are all from the land of saints & scholars, Saying we are just undocumented reinforces that image in some peoples minds , Anyway Trump should get rid of the illegal's to make way for us undocumented ;-0

Your Face

pickarooney wrote: »

Are we not calling them aliens any more?

To avoid confusion during The Invasion.

jester77

White privilege is the difference.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

doolox

I do not think it is a race difference but more of a language and culture difference. The Irish were seen as undesireable in the US in the mid nineteenth Century by members and supporters of the US "know nothing" party, an anti catholic and anti immigration party which existed in the US in the nineteenth century.

Similar opinions were expressed against Chinese and other non English speaking people and non protestants until, in the case of the Irish, they began to organise and gain political power starting in the cities along the US East coast and eventually extending to the West and mid West, Chicago and San Fransisco etc. The immigrants had become established in the social order.

The American Italian community were just as much vilified and hated by the newly elevated Irish communities as the Irish were by the native Anglo american communities of earlier times until they in turn obtained political power and became elevated in social standing in the US.

A similar tension exists between established Latino communites in the States since the 1960's and more recent arrivals who are seen as a threat to living standards and harbingers of crime etc. It seems to be the nature of things that recently arrived immigrants want the door closed after their arrival and each ethnic community wants an exception made for their own kind to the exclusion of the other people. Max Weber would have called these in groups and out groups, a common facet in Sociology.

Billy86

Teebor15 wrote: »

With regards to the US, why are Mexicans regarded as "Illegal Immigrants" whereas us Irish are described as "Undocumented"...whats the difference?

Similar reason why 'western' immigrants are often cringe-inducingly referred to as ex-pats, is my guess.

humanji

From what I've half-remembered from the interwebs, Undocumented Immigrant is the proper term. "Illegal" refers to an act, not a person. So there isn't really any such thing as an illegal immigrant, they only immigrated illegally. And many won't have actually immigrated illegally. A person who has overstayed a VISA hasn't immigrated illegally. But they are now an undocumented immigrant.

I think that's possibly close to what I may have read somewhere, and am too lazy to Google it.

biko

To me illegal means entering the country without a visa (Latinos) or overstaying your visa (Irish).
Each are illegal in the same way - they are in country without right to be there.



For immigrants streaming into Europe it means they tossed the documents somewhere on the way here.

As migrants leave their places of birth in the wake of fleeing civil war, persecution or poverty, they are also leaving behind their national identities. Many refugees who have entered Europe crossing the Serbia-Hungary border have dumped their identity cards a few metres from the border on Serbia’s side.

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/non-syrian-refugees-scrapping-national-identities-using-fake-passports-1465097

Widdershins

Illegal Irish immigrants is the only description I've ever heard apart from here on Boards and possibly somewhere else very recently. Undocumented seems to be a recent term that's being used instead. I've heard complaints about British immigrants being called Ex Pats instead of immigrants. There is nothing inherently wrong with the word immigrant and if the ex pats didn't immigrate without the legal paperwork and permissions,it's a factual description in their case, the same as ''immigrant'' applies applies to them. Imbuing the word immigrant on its own with negativity is ridiculous.
Far too much sensitivity and seeking offense with this one.

Carlos Orange

Widdershins wrote: »

Illegal Irish immigrants is the only description I've ever heard apart from here on Boards

I think Enda was over in the US recently referring to them as undocumented and saying that the US immigration system needs to address their needs.
Doesn't give me much confidence in our immigration system when he is over there shilling for illegal immigrants.

UsBus

All illegal immigrants. The whole undocumented terminology is shameful by Ireland. You overstay you're visa in another country, you're not waiting on someone to get around to documenting your decision to change address. You are choosing to stay in the country illegally. Illegal Irish are no better or more entitled than any other nationality in terms of their right to acquire citizenship.

wakka12

I don't like the term illegal immigrant. What theyre doing may be illegal, but calling a person illegal is demeaning and dehumanising, a person themselves cannot be illegal

Woodhenge

The next time you pass a line of clamped cars, spare a thought for those who were merely parked undocumented, unlike those who were trying go get away with parking illegally. I was one of them

hungry hypno toad

Woodhenge wrote: »

The next time you pass a line of clamped cars, spare a thought for those who were merely parked undocumented, unlike those who were trying go get away with parking illegally. I was one of them

You sound crushed.

SEPT 23 1989

Official Ireland calls them undocumented

The official Ireland who failed generation after generation

None of their people left unless they wanted to

_Kaiser_

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't like the term illegal immigrant. What theyre doing may be illegal, but calling a person illegal is demeaning and dehumanising, a person themselves cannot be illegal

It's not demeaning and dehumanising... however attitudes like this are designed to try and suggest that they're "not REALLY doing anything wrong" and thus attempt to muddy the waters about the actual offence they're committing.

Besides, the key is in the WHOLE term "illegal immigrant".. it's not the person themselves that's "illegal" - it's the act of them staying/entering the country without the appropriate permissions that's illegal, and for that they should be turfed out be they Irish, Mexican, African or whatever!

There's enough legitimate ways to apply to legally/legitimately live and work in most counties... let them use one of those.

RDM_83 again

Billy86 wrote: »

Teebor15 wrote: »

With regards to the US, why are Mexicans regarded as "Illegal Immigrants" whereas us Irish are described as "Undocumented"...whats the difference?

Similar reason why 'western' immigrants are often cringe-inducingly referred to as ex-pats, is my guess.

The ex-pat thing is blatantly​ obvious though if you look at the name it refers to citizens abroad.

A black English dude working Arveto or somebody transferred to India to manage a IT center is an ex-pat.

A White Romanian builder moving to England without a job secured is a migrant.

Maybe the Romanians would call him an ex pat though

Manic Moran

humanji wrote: »

From what I've half-remembered from the interwebs, Undocumented Immigrant is the proper term. "Illegal" refers to an act, not a person. So there isn't really any such thing as an illegal immigrant, they only immigrated illegally. And many won't have actually immigrated illegally. A person who has overstayed a VISA hasn't immigrated illegally. But they are now an undocumented immigrant.

I think that's possibly close to what I may have read somewhere, and am too lazy to Google it.

You're not far off. Being unlawfully in the country is not a criminal offence (Getting in can be, depending on how you did it). It is, however, a civil offence, enforceable by the government. So it's still illegal, just not criminal.