Hunters Trespassing

dmcsweeney

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but I'd like your opinion on something. Over the last 3 months I've seen a steady increase in hunters (with fox hounds) entering my land without permission. Before I go any further I'd like to make it clear that I am not anti hinting in any way, but I have the following issues/concerns;
1. Risk posed to my cattle, horses & pets.
2. Liability
3. Privacy/security - not a fan of strangers walking around my property unannounced.
4. Access gateways to fields being blocked by vehicles, sometimes for hours on end.
5. Damage being caused to ditches/fences.
6. The general attitude I'm met with when I approach and question these people as to what they are doing when I see them on my land.

The latest incident was last Friday afternoon, when they went straight through the middle of my farm, many of them (dogs and men) through my lawn and around my house. My wife, not knowing what was going on at first, asked them what they were doing and they ignored her and ran off. She approached a guy sitting in a van on the road to ask him and he drove off at speed. She tried to stop them entering fields across the road where we have horses and they ignored her once more. They then did something that really annoyed me, left the gate of the field (containing horses) open, onto a public road. Worried about an injury to one of the horses (one was startled previously, went through my electric fence, sheep wire and then the neighbors barbed wire) she called me and asked me to go talk to them. I caught up with them about a mile away, but I was wasting my time. All they did was deny any knowledge, 'that wasn't us at all, must have been someone else' was the answer to every every question. They only thing they did admit to was being members of a club. I took the reg numbers of every vehicle they had, and made it obvious I was taking them. I'm not a tyrant and don't want to come across as one, but their complete lack of respect for landowners has really irritated me. I'd prefer not to go down the route of plastering signs all over my gates, but I may have no choice. Going to ring the IFA later this morning for advice. Was also thinking of contacting whatever body this club is affiliated to for advice.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave

Captainaxiom

If their trespassing ring the guards.

dmcsweeney

Captainaxiom wrote: »

If their trespassing ring the guards.

To be honest it might have to come to that, but it would be a last resort. I'd prefer to sort it out without resorting to that. Small place, don't want to be the crank that call the guards in if you know what I mean.

Thanks,
Dave

knipex

dmcsweeney wrote: »

To be honest it might have to come to that, but it would be a last resort. I'd prefer to sort it out without resorting to that. Small place, don't want to be the crank that call the guards in if you know what I mean.

Thanks,
Dave

As someone who hunts and shoots on other peoples land.

Call the guards.. You tired approaching them, you tried begin civil and you got nowhere.

whelan2

Do you have no trespassing signs up? Also bull in field sign.

dmcsweeney

Thanks guys. No signage up at the moment. Again, small village etc, but I'll have to put some up. Some locals do walk through my land on occasion, which I have no problem whatsoever with and I don't want to appear hostile towards them. I assume it's illegal to have 'lands poisoned' signs?

PS; forgot to mention I'm in Glas and have a few habitats on the land which I assume they have entered as well given their location, as well as traditional hay meadow which I assume should not be entered either.

Thanks,
Dave

GarIT

Maybe I'm very different because I'm from closer to the city but if I say someone on my land I wouldn't dare approach them. Ringing 999 would be the first thing I would be doing.

Try getting a lock on your gates. And get in contact with the club and ask them to pay for the damages.

whelan2

Approach your local gun club. They should help you out. They should also put up signs. They can give you a list of their members so you know they are covered

Cass

This topic comes up from time to time and without being a dick it has nothing to do with hunting. It's a matter regarding trespass and so it's the purview of An Gardaí.

The matter is obviously, and understandably, bothering you but any advice you get here will be simply that, advice. You need to deal with this matter properly and that involves An Gardaí. The IFA and any local gun club will tell you the same. I#d also wager that the local gun club has nothing to do with them as they wouldn't risk alienating a local land owner or the wrath of An Gardaí by acting in such a manner.

If it's your land and they don't have permission from you to be on it then they are breaking the law. Again not being a dick, but if someone broke into your house you wouldn't ask the home owners association for advice, you'd ring An Gardaí.

I don't mean to come across as gruff or blunt, but it's really a clear cut case of trespass and you need the professionals to deal with it not the advice of people from a hunting forum. the fact you have registration numbers, etc will be a good starting point for any possible inquiries or investigation.

dmcsweeney

whelan2 wrote: »

Approach your local gun club. They should help you out. They should also put up signs. They can give you a list of their members so you know they are covered

Thanks for that. Just to clarify though, this is not a gun club. We have had people enter our land for various other reasons in the past and have always obliged as permission was sought, proof of insurance was provided,no risk posed to live stock and there was no violation of our REPS/Glas agreements. I've been looking at signage online this morning and I think I might install a few occupiers liability signs along with a lands preserved sign on the worst effected area. My wife used to take part in hunts (on horse back) in the past and they always visited landowners weeks in advance to seek permission and give insurance details. They were also followed by members on foot checking for and repairing any damage caused to stone fences etc. The vast majority of people involved in hunting are very respectful of other's land and I don't want to persecute those people.

Thanks,
Dave

dmcsweeney

Cass wrote: »

This topic comes up from time to time and without being a dick it has nothing to do with hunting. It's a matter regarding trespass and so it's the purview of An Gardaí.

The matter is obviously, and understandably, bothering you but any advice you get here will be simply that, advice. You need to deal with this matter properly and that involves An Gardaí. The IFA and any local gun club will tell you the same. I#d also wager that the local gun club has nothing to do with them as they wouldn't risk alienating a local land owner or the wrath of An Gardaí by acting in such a manner.

If it's your land and they don't have permission from you to be on it then they are breaking the law. Again not being a dick, but if someone broke into your house you wouldn't ask the home owners association for advice, you'd ring An Gardaí.

I don't mean to come across as gruff or blunt, but it's really a clear cut case of trespass and you need the professionals to deal with it not the advice of people from a hunting forum. the fact you have registration numbers, etc will be a good starting point for any possible inquiries or investigation.

I appreciate your comments and will take them on board. I warned them that I would report any trespassers going forward when I spoke to them on Friday. I'm hoping that will nip it in the bud, but given your comment (and those of previous posters) I will make the call next time. And I don't think you're blunt! I got the exact same response from the local ranger when I called him Friday (after he mentioned it was 4.55 and he was finishing in 5 minutes!!).

Thanks,
Dave

Vegeta

That really boils my blood. Those guys give all the genuine folks who go out of their way to get permission a bad name.
I find that behaviour completely unacceptable, hunting is an activity carried out completely at the grace of landowners. That type of carry on can poison a community against hunting and hunters.

Unfortunately as Cass says above it's a difficult thing to give advice on. The only thing I can think is try to find out who owns the dogs (usually 1 or 2 guys in a fox hunting scenario) via the gun club or through local gossip and talk to them directly. I understand it may not be local gun club people involved but they may know the individuals and be able to get contact information.

If a discussion doesn't get the desired result then it's definitely the Gardai next

readytosnap

999. Hello guards? there are several people on my property, outside my house with guns.

whelan2

Also I know you dont want to have to do it but a chain and lock on any gates along the road will give you some peace of mind

dmcsweeney

whelan2 wrote: »

Also I know you dont want to have to do it but a chain and lock on any gates along the road will give you some peace of mind

To be honest I'm going that way anyhow in case anyone inadvertently leaves a gate open. I've spoken to the IFA legal department, and at least know I'm satisfied that I'm covered legally. I think I'll go with a few occupiers liability and lands preserved signs as well.

Grizzly 45

Did you see any with firearms?Be unusual as the season is closed now and it would be then armed /aggravated trespass,a lot more serious.If not,it wasn't shooters..It sounds like a local foot pack acting the dick on your property,or lads out trying to chase up foxes and acting the dick.
Either way ALL unacceptable carry on. As you said your missus has rode to hounds and you have described the correct protocol for a hunt be they mounted or on foot to cross anyones lands.Hunts or those with any cop on realise they need the landowners and farmers co operation 100% these days to continue hunting or shooting.
It's Twts like this that destroy it for us all.:mad:
Anyways, best post your land and lock your gates.And in Nov stick a message in the local rag,that your lands,at... are preserved to fur and feather.

dmcsweeney

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Did you see any with firearms?Be unusual as the season is closed now and it would be then armed /aggravated trespass,a lot more serious.If not,it wasn't shooters..It sounds like a local foot pack acting the dick on your property,or lads out trying to chase up foxes and acting the dick.
Either way ALL unacceptable carry on. As you said your missus has rode to hounds and you have described the correct protocol for a hunt be they mounted or on foot to cross anyones lands.Hunts or those with any cop on realise they need the landowners and farmers co operation 100% these days to continue hunting or shooting.
It's Twts like this that destroy it for us all.:mad:
Anyways, best post your land and lock your gates.And in Nov stick a message in the local rag,that your lands,at... are preserved to fur and feather.

No one with guns, I'd have had the ranger out if they had! All it would have taken on the day was a bit of respect towards me, and an apology, but they just seem to not to give a ..... about my opinion.

Thanks,
Dave

cavan shooter

Just to point out and while the OP can work away and get the ARW involved on this, I know of a similar problem locally to me.

There is a distinct advantage of getting the local gun club involved and asking them to sign the land as a Sanctuary (Assuming he doesn't want shooting). Signs with XYZ Gun Club, Game Sanctuary no shooting has impact.

1. No gun Club member wants to get in bother by shooting on a Sanctuary its a hang-able offence, even if they aren't a member of the specific local club, especially if the local club puts out a few birds.

2. Gun clubs are recognised bodies under the widlife act and have the power to prosecute. This occurred in our local club in the 1980's when lads where coming in and shooting on farmers land without permission. It involves the secretary of the club moving the prosecution with a Solicitor and the Farmer/land owner saying he only gives permission to the xyz gun club to hunt shoot or in this case put in place a sanctuary.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/si/335/made/en/print

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/section/44/enacted/en/html

Vegeta

dmcsweeney wrote: »

No one with guns, I'd have had the ranger out if they had! All it would have taken on the day was a bit of respect towards me, and an apology, but they just seem to not to give a ..... about my opinion.

Thanks,
Dave

I don't know why but I assumed they had firearms with them. Don't know how I missed that.

blackpearl

Do you let the local gun club hunt on your land?

dmcsweeney

blackpearl wrote: »

Do you let the local gun club hunt on your land?

To be honest I've never been approached by a gun club. Must check to see what ones are about.

blackpearl

give the reg numbers to the local clubs and see what they come up with ,then take it from their i would say this can be sorted without people crying ring the garda.

ganmo

blackpearl wrote: »

give the reg numbers to the local clubs and see what they come up with ,then take it from their i would say this can be sorted without people crying ring the garda.

the garda are the correct body to deal with it. nothing brings a stuck up git back down to earth quicker than seeing a squad car pull up outside.

blackpearl

These boys were you will find were not part of any gun club ,a crowd of chancers i would say causing trouble for local clubs.

blackpearl

No gun club member would treat a famer like this.if they did they should be put out of the club.

barnaman

Alot of chancers out there chairman of local gun club, also a farmer, told me that this season was shooting his own land and came across a lad shooting and that lad tried to run him!!!

Get the guards involved next thing stuff will go missing half those lads just casing.

SILVAMAN

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Thanks guys. No signage up at the moment.
Thanks,
Dave

It's your property. You owe nobody an explanation.

http://www.gamer.ru/everything/no-trespassing-violators-will-be-shot-survivors-will-be-shot-again

blackpearl

Most farmers have a gun for vermin control ect,put a sign like that up and the gards would be coming to take his gun,

steddyeddy

Call the Gardai Dave. In the meantime you can install infrasound devices in your field. They tend to spook the dogs and horses.

blackpearl

steddyeddy wrote: »

Call the Gardai Dave. In the meantime you can install infrasound devices in your field. They tend to spook the dogs and horses.

Are they the devices that the doogooder antis use when they try to cause trouble at fox hunting meets,this man has horses not a good idea.

dmcsweeney

Gents,

thanks again for your advice. I drop into a neighbors farm on my way home from work yesterday and it turns out he had run the same guys from his place previously. They dropped the same name (of someone who lives in the area) when asked what he was doing there. Seems that we have a guy going around telling people they can hunt on our land, so I'm going to have a chat with him later and set him straight. Will also speak to the land owners on the other side of my farm. He's going erecting the same signage as me so we'll be delivering a uniform message to these guys. I've also been told that I've had two different groups. The ones last Friday were part of a club, and I have the chairman's details now, and the previous groups were not. Either way they'll be set straight and reported to the guards if they are silly enough to try again.

Regards,
Dave

Cass

My gun club hand out letters to all land owners which has a list of contact details for the committee so if they have a problem someone can be contacted immediately. We also tell all members to carry their club cards with them and produce them whenever asked.

Eliminates this sort of situations.

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Seems that we have a guy going around telling people they can hunt on our land, so I'm going to have a chat with him later and set him straight.

I would advise you approach this person with civility. I've seen it before and it could be this here, where the lads you have problems with either had permission from him at some point or never had it but knew he was a "soft touch" and just use his name.

One of my permissions is owned by such a lad. The level of trespass on his land got so bad that i stopped shooting it and two years ago the NPWS stopped accepting his lands as permissions for deer licenses.

So the land owner may be clueless to what these guys are doing.

whelan2

dmcsweeney wrote: »

To be honest I've never been approached by a gun club. Must check to see what ones are about.

I was the same, I sent a letter to the gun club that if they wanted to hunt my land it would be polite to ask , otherwise they are not allowed enter my land. I never remember them ever asking permission. They came down fairly quickly and sorted everything out They are not allowed near the yard with dogs. They put up signs around the place, it's basic manners to ask can you enter someones property not just assume you have a right to go there

steddyeddy

blackpearl wrote: »

Are they the devices that the doogooder antis use when they try to cause trouble at fox hunting meets,this man has horses not a good idea.

Antis? A guy I work with in the lab gave me a lend of his. My mother had a problem with a group of dogs running in her garden (nothing to do with hunting). Infrasound freaks out animals (and humans sometimes), I set it at a frequency that would effect animals with the auditory range of dogs.

Hunter456

just be careful these people use the dogs as a smoke screen to say they are lamping rabbits or got lost while out lamping and stumble on a farm yard they look into every shed to see what can be robbed, every farmer that i asked for permission around here always say '' are you in the gun club'' my response is i am they say shoot away. if you don't mind me asking what part of the country are you from.

dmcsweeney

Thanks again. I will take the civil approach as he is a neighbour after all. I'd echo the warning in the post above. We recently had about €19k in cable stolen from one of our sites by people 'lamping'. It's the reason I photograph all the vehicles when I see them around. Reassuring to see, from the response on here, that these guys are the minority when it comes to disrespecting landowners. Must be a bit of an epidemic at the moment as Dairygold were sold out of signs when I popped in earlier!!

Hunter456

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Thanks again. I will take the civil approach as he is a neighbour after all. I'd echo the warning in the post above. We recently had about €19k in cable stolen from one of our sites by people 'lamping'. It's the reason I photograph all the vehicles when I see them around. Reassuring to see, from the response on here, that these guys are the minority when it comes to disrespecting landowners. Must be a bit of an epidemic at the moment as Dairygold were sold out of signs when I popped in earlier!!

It's an national epidemic bastards have nothing better to do than to go snooping on people's land robbing and stealing. I know a lads tools were robbed one day he decided to go to the market and what was sitting there his tools.

dmcsweeney

Hunter456 wrote: »

if you don't mind me asking what part of the country are you from.

I'm in mid Cork. I won't be anymore specific than that as it'll be pretty obvious what club is involved!!!

blackpearl

steddyeddy wrote: »

Antis? A guy I work with in the lab gave me a lend of his. My mother had a problem with a group of dogs running in her garden (nothing to do with hunting). Infrasound freaks out animals (and humans sometimes), I set it at a frequency that would effect animals with the auditory range of dogs.

you did not say that in previous post you said dogs and horses,and the farmer had horses thats why i was getting on to you,will it work for cats?

steddyeddy

blackpearl wrote: »

you did not say that in previous post you said dogs and horses,and the farmer had horses thats why i was getting on to you,will it work for cats?

I'm not actually sure man. My mother has cats and they don't seem affected.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cass wrote: »

This topic comes up from time to time and without being a dick it has nothing to do with hunting. It's a matter regarding trespass and so it's the purview of An Gardaí.

The legal discussion forum might be a better suit, but I think the best place to get advice is the hunters forum. It's hunters that are trespassing and it's a good start to get the advice from some other hunters.

OP, I would let the Gardai know and pass on the information you collected. You will find that most hunters will not act in the manner these guys did. It's really not nice to hear at all. I think you have been very fair with them so far. Too fair maybe.

ldc

There is a Garda information night being held in the West Lodge Hotel in Bantry on the 09/04/2017 at 21:00 i think. All local gun clubs are being invited to attend and i am sure other groups as well. There is a new Super in situ i understand. A meeting like that gives you an opportunity to broach the subject in a wider sense if you liked either during the meeting or afterwards in an informal session and get advice and meet and greet some local Gardai without making a formal complaint. I understand that the crime prevention officer for the Garda Division will be there also.
If attending you may need to check closer to the time in case there are any changes.

Cass

Priscilla Acidic Stomachache wrote: »

The legal discussion forum might be a better suit, but I think the best place to get advice is the hunters forum. It's hunters that are trespassing and it's a good start to get the advice from some other hunters.

I'd disagree on what might seem a pedantic point. They are not hunters. They lost any credible attachment to that title when they broke the law and trespassed.

Also i don't want the title of hunter to be bastardised by association with people that trespass and generally break the law.

As for the thread itself. I'm happy enough to let it run and for everyone to see that true hunters condemn this type of behaviour. My point about the topic itself is that the OP can ask for advice as much as they want, but as the thread and posts have shown the only real solution to this problem is to go to the Gardaí and have it dealt with.