DNA Analysis

pinkypinky

I read the second more recent article before. A couple of things occur:

Several people on this board have already taken Ancestry tests, so we can't do anything about it now
The examples quoted in the article are very extreme examples, and all in the USA. If a problem arises with a European citizen and the test, I'll watch that with interest.
None of these issues will stop Ancestry from collecting tests from people. They've got 5million people in the database and it's only going to grow.
I presume that other DNA companies have similarly comprehensive policies.

BottleOfSmoke

DunnoKidz wrote: »

Yes, and their push for DNA analysis seems only to've increased over the past few years, suggesting their plans are to follow through? Goals spoken by their own lips, according to that article.

Would like to know, of anyone who has taken the test, do they actually ask (as the article suggested) "if they’d (clients) be willing to share their data with Ancestry for research"?

Will go back into the forum discussion threads tonite to look for the notation, pinkypinky (I should've linked it myself, as it discomforted).

I took the Ancestry test this summer 2017. When you submit the reference number of the kit, there is a request page or button where you give permission for your DNA to be used for research purposes. I can't remember if it's opt-in or opt-out i.e. if by default you give permission and you have to go the extra click to opt out. But I will say that they don't hide this, and it's clear as to what step to take to opt out.
I also did 23andMe more recently. Same question as to allowing DNA to be used for their research, that was definitely opt-out, but clearly presented.

pedroeibar1

I remember being asked those questions when I completed the Ancestry test-kit form and if I recall correctly there is the option of going back and making them private at a later stage. If you do not agree to share data there is no point in doing the test as you need to share to make comparisons.

That linked article, as Pinky & Hermy pointed out, is a bit hysterical. For starters, the medical story quoted is specifically US-related. It would not be relevant to Ireland, where we have community rating in medical insurance. I suggest that the lady who had insurance cover voided was in breach of standard insurance conditions regardless of any intervention by Ancestry. On the proposal form she would have been asked if she or a relative suffered from specific inheritable conditions and if she did not make full disclosure she would have breached the concept of uberrima fides (‘utmost good faith’).

In Ireland many people regularly and far more recklessly disclose huge amounts of personal data that is much more sensitive. Look at the accounts of many on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Photo share sites, or blogs, etc.. How many people collect points on their shopping? Identity theft and profiling are very easy tasks with that type of information, far more dangerous than what Ancestry has on record.

DunnoKidz

^ Thanks for the perspective and replies! Appreciate the info!

pinkypinky

After a weekend of listening to some great lectures at Genetic Genealogy in BTOP, I have a question.

So I'm looking at my matches on FTDNA. I've sorted it to show me matches not in common with my mother, so this should be all paternal links, and then reviewed the X matches. Since men cannot transmit X dna on to their offspring, does this mean that those X matches must come from my paternal grandmother or above? Have I understood this correctly?

spurious

I find this chart helpful:



As I understand it, for a male, that's the possibilities.

dubhthach

pinkypinky wrote: »

After a weekend of listening to some great lectures at Genetic Genealogy in BTOP, I have a question.

So I'm looking at my matches on FTDNA. I've sorted it to show me matches not in common with my mother, so this should be all paternal links, and then reviewed the X matches. Since men cannot transmit X dna on to their offspring, does this mean that those X matches must come from my paternal grandmother or above? Have I understood this correctly?

It's mtDNA that men can't pass onto their offspring. In comparison when it comes to the 'sex-linked' chromosomes it's basically which chromosome you get from your father that determines your sex.

So a woman can only pass on an X, a man will pass either a Y (thus producing a son who is XY) or his X thus producing a daughter (XX)

What's important to remember is that the X you get from your mother probably underwent recombination, so it's like a 'blended version' of her two X Chromosomes. As a man only has one X this basically gets passed unchanged to a daughter.

So the X you got from your father is basically identical to the one your paternal grandmother passed to your father. Any X-matches thus on that line reflect specifically paternal grandmother part of the family (eg. there shouldn't be any paternal grandfather line matches)

pinkypinky

That's really interesting because people I have an X match with (and they don't match my mother) were presumed to come from a paternal grandmother line and that backs up my theory.

RGM

pinkypinky wrote: »

So I'm looking at my matches on FTDNA. I've sorted it to show me matches not in common with my mother, so this should be all paternal links

Just wanted to say that while this is theoretically true, it is not actually true.

Both of my parents have been tested. I have all of our results on both 23andMe and FTDNA. In both cases, there are a vast number of matches I have that do not match either of my parents.

RGM

Also, regarding previous discussion about Y-DNA lineages, there are some very impressive ones out there.

Buchanan: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=799&star=false
Lennox/McFarlane: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=48&star=false
Stewart: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=86&star=false

I run a project for my surname, but unfortunately only one other person aside from myself has done the Big Y.

dubhthach

The Stewarts are DF41+ (my own haplogroup, I was second person to test DF41+ in FTDNA whole database). What's good about them is we have had large number of men with verified lineages do Y-DNA testing. So for example we know that the Duke of Buccleuch (descendant of Charles II through his illegitimate son Monmouth) falls into this cluster. We also have work going on in University of Strathclyde where they are testing various branches of the Stewart family (eg. people with long lineages going back to known historic Stewart figures) and as result there's some progress in splitting various sub-branches of L746+ line into various lines of the Stewart family.

It would seem the line began expanding from a very small base during the 12th-14th century, which given it's connection to the Stewart family make sense in context of Scottish history.

montgo

Query?
I have a good ATDNA match with my known male 3rd cousin (common gggrandparents on his father's side) and we also share X DNA. As I understand it (limited knowledge), he can only inherit XDNA from his mother, does this mean that I connect also with his maternal line?
Apologies if this question has been asked before.

pinkypinky

Well, my understanding is an X match between 2 men either means that they're related via their mothers (i.e. sisters) or through their paternal grandmother.

RGM

pinkypinky wrote: »

Well, my understanding is an X match between 2 men either means that they're related via their mothers (i.e. sisters) or through their paternal grandmother.

No, men only get their X from their mothers.

Women get Xs from both parents. Men always get the Y from their dad and their X from their mother.

Hermy

I wonder will there be an influx of new matches in the New Year on account of people getting DNA kits as Christmas presents? Lets hope so.

shar01

Hermy wrote: »

I wonder will there be an influx of new matches in the New Year on account of people getting DNA kits as Christmas presents? Lets hope so.

I'm giving a kit to my brother. If we get half the hits we got with my mother's kit I will be over the moon.

This summer we went from knowing my grandmother's birth mother's name only to over 1000 people in her tree. Looks like half of Blackrock, Co Dublin is related to the other half

Hermy

I'm adopted so there's extra significance for me in finding matches.
So far most of my matches appear to be on my maternal side which I know quite a bit about (having established contact with my late birth mothers family) whereas my paternal side is drawing a complete blank.
Might have to bite the bullet and splash out on the Y-DNA test in the New Year.

shar01

Hermy wrote: »

I'm adopted so there's extra significance for me in finding matches.
So far most of my matches appear to be on my maternal side which I know quite a bit about (having established contact with my late birth mothers family) whereas my paternal side is drawing a complete blank.
Might have to bite the bullet and splash out on the Y-DNA test in the New Year.

I'll be honest - I haven't a breeze about the ins and outs of the DNA results with Y this and centimorgan that. My plan for the new year is to try and learn more.

pinkypinky

I just got Blaine Bettinger's book. I know a bit but want to know much more. I'll do a review once I've finished.

Hermy

shar01 wrote: »

I'll be honest - I haven't a breeze about the ins and outs of the DNA results with Y this and centimorgan that. My plan for the new year is to try and learn more.

I don't know too much either but I do know that Y-DNA is passed down on the male line so that's why that test may be particularly useful to me.

srmf5

I've already gotten results back for my dad's FTDNA test that I ordered on the 2nd. I went for FTDNA because they already had my dad's sample for the Y-DNA test I ordered and he's not very generous with his DNA (mum had to persuade him). My paternal aunt has already tested with Ancestry anyway so I'm covered there. He got 99% British Isles and <1% South America which was quite funny since he loves westerns.

I've ordered one on Ancestry for my mum so I'm looking forward to getting that.

I'd also love to get a kit done on my grand aunt since matches on that side are lacking. There's also a lady that's adopted who's related to that side of the family and it could really help. The problem is that my mum only speaks to her on the phone now and again and I hadn't seen her in years except for at my granduncle's funeral during the summer so I don't feel like I have the right to suddenly ask that of her to do.

VirginiaB

The more family members who test, the better, even, or especially, when they are closely related. My brother and I got the same ethnicities on Ancestry but in differing proportions. It did show us as immediate family. I'm hoping a lot of Irish people in Ireland will do the Ancestry test while it's on sale so those of us in the diaspora might make some connections.

Wyldwood

I have an interesting scenario with DNA results and would welcome words of wisdom.

I have a known third cousin who isn't showing as a match to me or to six other dna cousins who are all matches to each other on one branch of the family. He is showing as a match to his niece who is matching me and two of the others but not the rest. These all range from 2nd cousin to third-once-removed. Is it that the relationship is too far out? I have matches for many other known third cousins.

I know that there is a 10% chance of not matching a third cousin but for him to only match his niece and none of the rest of us is strange.

BottleOfSmoke

Hermy wrote: »

I wonder will there be an influx of new matches in the New Year on account of people getting DNA kits as Christmas presents? Lets hope so.

Thanksgiving was pushed hard by the companies. I saw on Facebook this morning a number of people saying they had a jump in matches. I checked Ancestry and overnight I had 14 new matches (distant cousins). My numbers had been fairly static for a fortnight, so that's a big jump for me.

BottleOfSmoke

srmf5 wrote: »

I'd also love to get a kit done on my grand aunt since matches on that side are lacking. There's also a lady that's adopted who's related to that side of the family and it could really help. The problem is that my mum only speaks to her on the phone now and again and I hadn't seen her in years except for at my granduncle's funeral during the summer so I don't feel like I have the right to suddenly ask that of her to do.

The trick with "selling" something is to give the person a reason to want to do it for themselves. She might be interested in learning about her ancestral breakdown, you could mention that your dad found his breakdown interesting.

I also discovered this year the popularity of shows like "long lost family" are amongst the older generation. I'm adopted, and avoided them. Turns out that the older generation in my newly found family were avid watchers, and were delighted to be living the reality by me turning up suddenly . Maybe your grandaunt is into shows like that, and would be curious about finding new relatives or helping someone like your adopted relative.

I think it's worth asking politely, you have nothing to lose. The only down side I can see is if the woman has a reason to decline that she doesn't want to explain. I asked an older relative to test, but in my letter I gave her an easy way to decline, I mentioned that if she had any worries about internet privacy, I'd understand. She declined graciously, using my own language.

pinkypinky

Wyldwood wrote: »

I have an interesting scenario with DNA results and would welcome words of wisdom.

I have a known third cousin who isn't showing as a match to me or to six other dna cousins who are all matches to each other on one branch of the family. He is showing as a match to his niece who is matching me and two of the others but not the rest. These all range from 2nd cousin to third-once-removed. Is it that the relationship is too far out? I have matches for many other known third cousins.

I know that there is a 10% chance of not matching a third cousin but for him to only match his niece and none of the rest of us is strange.

Could there be a NPE here?

shar01

pinkypinky wrote: »

Could there be a NPE here?

Forgive my ignorance - what's a NPE?

Wyldwood

Yes an NPE (non-parental event) was my first thought too as he only shares 897 cms with his niece when the average uncle/niece is 1700. Time for me to keep my mouth shut I think.

Sorry, don't know where that smilie in the heading came from .. nothing to smile about

pinkypinky

I've also seen it stand for "not the parent expected"!

Wyldwood

pinkypinky wrote: »

I've also seen it stand for "not the parent expected"!

Oh I like that one, much nicer way of saying it