England vs Italy.

Teferi · 27-02-2017 4:05pm

Duggie2012 wrote: »

i hopw we stuff them in a few weeks time.

I am champing at the bit to beat Eddie Jones now. I don't even want to beat England too badly, just Eddie Jones. I'm going pure Kevin Keegan on it.

shootermacg · 27-02-2017 4:09pm

nelly17 wrote: »

What strikes me is that I have seen people say if Hartley wasn't Captain he'd not be making the team on recent form - I'd seriously question his ability to captain having not had the capacity to deal with the tactic on the day

The guy is simply not clever enough to lead a side. He's not even clever enough to keep his stupid mouth shut most of the time.

TheCitizen · 27-02-2017 4:17pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

This is all better suited to the laws thread but a penalty try can only be awarded if a probable try wasn't scored due to foul play. Refs in general do give more benefit to attacking side so there isn't any reason for much more penalty trys to be awarded

The point is I don't think they do.

France infringed twice in the red zone and then got a warning, they then turned the play over which is fair enough bit I reckon if they had infringed again then the opposing team should then get a penalty goal kick as a default from there on. The advantage should be given to the opposing side. And France should've been warned after the first infringement in my view.

Defending teams are routinely gambling and winning on infringing two or three times on the try line.

I've put this in the laws thread.

Dog Botherer · 27-02-2017 4:18pm

If Jones drops Hartley, you'd have to wonder who would get the captaincy.

Coles: Utter liability these days
Launchbury: Not guaranteed his spot when Kruis returns
Itoje: Possible, but still very young
Haskell: Just as meat-headed as Hartley, if not more
Robshaw: Injured, also lol
Youngs: In terrible form, not guaranteed his spot
Farrell: Possible, but questions over his temperament and mentality still lurk
Brown: Maybe if you want a 30 man fistfight in the third minute of the game

sydthebeat · 27-02-2017 4:30pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

If Jones drops Hartley, you'd have to wonder who would get the captaincy.

Coles: Utter liability these days
Launchbury: Not guaranteed his spot when Kruis returns
Itoje: Possible, but still very young
Haskell: Just as meat-headed as Hartley, if not more
Robshaw: Injured, also lol
Youngs: In terrible form, not guaranteed his spot
Farrell: Possible, but questions over his temperament and mentality still lurk
Brown: Maybe if you want a 30 man fistfight in the third minute of the game

Courtney Laws FTW

:D:D:D:D

Dog Botherer · 27-02-2017 5:05pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Courtney Laws FTW :D:D:D:D

Same applies as Brown

Rightwing · 27-02-2017 5:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

For those who didn't get a chance to see it. This is up there with Venter and Brown's post match interviews for sheer saltyness.

Just had a quick look at that, not much wrong there in fairness. He praises Italy, says it's not rugby. Making a joke out of a shambolic situation.

Bottom line is the man knows how to win GS, and there's not oo many others around that we can say that about.

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 5:41pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Just had a quick look at that, not much wrong there in fairness. He praises Italy, says it's not rugby. Making a joke out of a shambolic situation.

Bottom line is the man knows how to win GS, and there's not oo many others around that we can say that about.

Your bottom line is irrelevant. He was petulant and churlish and threw the toys out of the pram because he didn't even get half way to the cleaners.

And it is rugby, no matter what he thinks. Standing off a maul is rugby, putting backs in the lineout is rugby and not engaging in rucks is rugby.

Unless of course you can point us all to the law that says the defending team must engage in rucks.

LeinsterDub · 27-02-2017 5:42pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Bottom line is the man knows how to win GS, and there's not oo many others around that we can say that about.

Grand we'll just leave it to himself and Declan Kidney so.

Rightwing · 27-02-2017 5:46pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Your bottom line is irrelevant. He was petulant and churlish and threw the toys out of the pram because he didn't even get half way to the cleaners.

And it is rugby, no matter what he thinks. Standing off a maul is rugby, putting backs in the lineout is rugby and not engaging in rucks is rugby.

Unless of course you can point us all to the law that says the defending team must engage in rucks.

This is all subjective.

He failed to take them to the cleaners, but Italy are going nowhere if they are happy to be taking narrow losses, and unearthing a few more 'animals'. :rolleyes:

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Grand we'll just leave it to himself and Declan Kidney so.

In fairness Gatty knows how to win a GS too.

Would you prefer Jones in charge or a nice loser like Lancaster?

sydthebeat · 27-02-2017 5:47pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Just had a quick look at that, not much wrong there in fairness.

im not in one bit surprised YOU find theres not much wrong with that interview.

sydthebeat · 27-02-2017 5:52pm

Rightwing wrote: »

but Italy are going nowhere if they are happy to be taking narrow losses

LOL

just because Eddie says it, doesnt make it true.

Conor O Shea himself said they went there to win and are not happy with the loss.

But hey, dont let that colour your truth....

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 5:57pm

Rightwing wrote: »

This is all subjective.

So is this

Rightwing wrote: »

Just had a quick look at that, not much wrong there in fairness.

Rightwing wrote: »

He failed to take them to the cleaners, but Italy are going nowhere if they are happy to be taking narrow losses, and unearthing a few more 'animals'. :rolleyes:

I think they'd be happier with a win. But at least they've shut up the talk about them not being good enough for the six nations and have garnered plenty of praise for their approach.

Very heartening for them to have shfted the ridicule to England I suspect.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 5:59pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Bottom line is the man knows how to win GS, and there's not oo many others around that we can say that about.

I didn't realise it was so confusing for some people.

You win a grand slam by winning all your matches in the 6 Nations in a single season.

Hungrycol · 27-02-2017 5:59pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Your bottom line is irrelevant. He was petulant and churlish and threw the toys out of the pram because he didn't even get half way to the cleaners.

And it is rugby, no matter what he thinks. Standing off a maul is rugby, putting backs in the lineout is rugby and not engaging in rucks is rugby.

Unless of course you can point us all to the law that says the defending team must engage in rucks.

.... but it's not a ruck, right? It's a tackle. The law would have to be the defending team must enage in the tackle to form ruck if the tacked player and ball on grounded. I don't know how they (the refs) could enforce that.

Neil3030 · 27-02-2017 6:01pm

Not sure this has been posted yet:

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 6:02pm

Hungrycol wrote: »

.... but it's not a ruck, right? It's a tackle. The law would have to be the defending team must enage in the tackle to form ruck if the tacked player and ball on grounded. I don't know how they (the refs) could enforce that.

Not sure if you're just being pedantic or not, but I know it's a tackle area. It's a ruck if they engage. So I'll see your chicken and raise you my egg.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 6:03pm

Hungrycol wrote: »

.... but it's not a ruck, right? It's a tackle. The law would have to be the defending team must enage in the tackle to form ruck if the tacked player and ball on grounded. I don't know how they (the refs) could enforce that.

Exactly. He's just bitter that he was taken by surprise and probably internally angry at his players for not having the smarts to take advantage of it.

Noone was telling the Chiefs that they weren't playing rugby when they tried it. Mostly because they played against opposition as intelligent as Pocock who was able to make them pay for it immediately. Unfortunately for Jones, England just didn't have anyone capable of doing that on the weekend.

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 6:04pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Not sure this has been posted yet:

Still a legend I see

Yeah, I spotted it in Dawson's timeline. Bet you he didn't block Andy.

molloyjh · 27-02-2017 6:05pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Exactly. He's just bitter that he was taken by surprise and probably internally angry at his players for not having the smarts to take advantage of it.

Noone was telling the Chiefs that they weren't playing rugby when they tried it. Mostly because they played against opposition as intelligent as Pocock who was able to make them pay for it immediately. Unfortunately for Jones, England just didn't have anyone capable of doing that on the weekend.

Didn't SANZAR make a statement about that at the time saying that what the Chiefs were doing wasn't in good sport or was that something else?

Rightwing · 27-02-2017 6:06pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I didn't realise it was so confusing for some people.

You win a grand slam by winning all your matches in the 6 Nations in a single season.

Which is precisely what Jones has managed in first season, and is on the way to doing in his second. Still confused? Or is the penny beginning to drop?

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 6:10pm

Jeez IBF. That went over at some speed. Somebody could have got hurt

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 6:11pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Which is precisely what Jones has managed in first season, and is on the way to doing in his second. Still confused? Or is the penny beginning to drop?

It's also what Declan Kidney did in his first season. And also what Mike Ruddock did eventually. And Marc Lievremont. And Bernard Laporte. And Clive Woodward.

Where are those coaches now? Winning a grand slam does not guarantee the long-term success or validity of a coach.

CMOTDibbler · 27-02-2017 6:14pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's also what Declan Kidney did in his first season. And also what Mike Ruddock did eventually. And Marc Lievremont. And Bernard Laporte. And Clive Woodward.

Where are those coaches now? Winning a grand slam does not guarantee the long-term success or validity of a coach.

Laporte ftw.

Rightwing · 27-02-2017 6:15pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's also what Declan Kidney did in his first season. And also what Mike Ruddock did eventually. And Marc Lievremont. And Bernard Laporte. And Clive Woodward.

Where are those coaches now? Winning a grand slam does not guarantee the long-term success or validity of a coach.

All good coaches. Their achievements can't be taken away from them, bit like Ranieri. Once you've done that, you can proud of your achievements.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 6:16pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't SANZAR make a statement about that at the time saying that what the Chiefs were doing wasn't in good sport or was that something else?

Oh did they? I missed that. Had a quick google but its so long now that it could have been lost to the ether. I wouldn't put it past them.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 6:17pm

Rightwing wrote: »

All good coaches. Their achievements can't be taken away from them, bit like Ranieri. Once you've done that, you can proud of your achievements.

They can certainly be proud of their achievements. But you've missed the point, all of them left international rugby by either being sacked or let go, and few of them (only Laporte really, who is a bit of an odd one out in multiple respects) went on to other decent jobs in rugby.

sydthebeat · 27-02-2017 6:19pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't SANZAR make a statement about that at the time saying that what the Chiefs were doing wasn't in good sport or was that something else?

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/

Rightwing · 27-02-2017 6:24pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They can certainly be proud of their achievements. But you've missed the point, all of them left international rugby by either being sacked or let go, and few of them (only Laporte really, who is a bit of an odd one out in multiple respects) went on to other decent jobs in rugby.

Woodward won a WC. Lievremont should have won one. Kidney a proven winner. Jones is around for 20+ years.

On the otherhand, chaps like Lancaster have won admiration, but little else.

irishbucsfan · 27-02-2017 6:32pm

Rightwing wrote: »

Woodward won a WC. Lievremont should have won one. Kidney a proven winner. Jones is around for 20+ years.

On the otherhand, chaps like Lancaster have won admiration, but little else.

And after the WC what did Woodward do? After not winning anything else what did Lievremont do? After leading Ireland to their worst 6 Nations what did Kidney do?

Jones is around for 20+ years but not many as a top level head coach. Mostly because he led Australia to a terrible season and ended up getting sacked and then took over the Queensland Reds and led them to a truly awful Super Rugby season and ended up resigning from there as well. After that he struggled to get a top job for quite a while, was an assistant and a consultant.

Lets try to keep to statement of facts rather than vague descriptions of people who "know how to win" as if that actually translates into anything that actually has any sort of real meaning.

England vs Italy.

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