"Why I did not report my rapist"

Help!!!! · 27-02-2017 06:37PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

She said no several times, how much clearer can you get. Taking her article at face value she wasn't sending mixed signals, she wasn't all over him, she didn't drag him into the bed room. He started kissing and undressing her. She said said no. What else does she have to do. Does it have to get to the point where she starts screaming, punching him off. Does she have to say no 10 times?

Like I said several times, he didn't take the time to step back and ask was it okay to continue. Even after saying no several times. She communicated that she didn't want this. He persisted.

Well yeah if shes going to get raped she should have screamed her lungs out. Wouldnt you?

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 06:39PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

She said no several times, how much clearer can you get. Taking her article at face value she wasn't sending mixed signals, she wasn't all over him, she didn't drag him into the bed room. He started kissing and undressing her. She said said no. What else does she have to do. Does it have to get to the point where she starts screaming, punching him off. Does she have to say no 10 times?

Like I said several times, he didn't take the time to step back and ask was it okay to continue. Even after saying no several times. She communicated that she didn't want this. He persisted.

Are you actually telling me that you hold so little value in either woman or the act of rape that if in a situation where being forceful saying no and even fighting back would save you from that you would just lie there and take it because your defenseless or its not a big deal?

He didnt take a step back in this case but she has also said she gave mixed signals as she was kissing him ect.

farmerwifelet · 27-02-2017 06:40PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

She said no several times, how much clearer can you get. Taking her article at face value she wasn't sending mixed signals, she wasn't all over him, she didn't drag him into the bed room. He started kissing and undressing her. She said said no. What else does she have to do. Does it have to get to the point where she starts screaming, punching him off. Does she have to say no 10 times?

Like I said several times, he didn't take the time to step back and ask was it okay to continue. Even after saying no several times. She communicated that she didn't want this. He persisted.

Her clothes "came off" she deliberately never said who took them off. and she continued kissing him the whole time. Really a case of mixed signals. I think two wrongs don't make a rape. He was wrong to push but she was wrong to keep snogging him. She could have just elaborated and said not tonight mate but that's hard to do if her tongue was in his mouth.

Wibbs · 27-02-2017 06:40PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She has a couple of crying selfies up

You are joking L? I haven't gone near her site. If I want to risk an aneurysm from an overload of vacuous daft, I'll watch Dancing with the "stars".

Then again, not a surprise. I love how these types have reframed "bravery" into something that is anything but and use selfie sentiment to appeal to emotion. That anybody in a state of distress would then apparently have the wherewithal to pick up a camera and capture the moment and then upload it. Like they upload snapchat pics of their food and fashion. All grist to their solipsistic mill. This is the level of self involvement we've reached. Nothing out of bounds to confess to the great god of social media. The iEgobeast needs feeding, regardless of the presence of google ads or payment. I have often wondered do the therapists such folks almost always attend ever point at that potentially unhealthy aspect and ask WTF?

Danjamin1 wrote: »

She's just blocked me on twitter.

Again, not a shock. It's a given in any of the echo chambers on all the divisive subjects out there. Whether they be "left/alt Right/MRA/MGTOW/Feminists the response to anything that may threaten their philosophical house of cards is this:

Though I have noted one difference; the so called "feminists" are more likely to pull the tears part. The joke is precisely because women are seen in the West as a protected demographic and they know and hope -instinctively or not - that people, men and women, are far more likely to come to their aid when compared to a man if the waterworks are on show.

retro:electro · 27-02-2017 06:42PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well yeah if shes going to get raped she should have screamed her lungs out. Wouldnt you?

Not always. Submissive rape is very common. As in-people will often not fight back as they feel if they just lie there and accept it, it'll be over with soon. However, this is a situation that is usually put upon them with no other option other than to be raped. They only options they encounter are: "will I be submissive or will I fight back?" As in, will I be raped or will I be raped brutally.

Not "will I just do this, or will I tell him I don't fancy him and end this".

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 06:45PM

anna080 wrote: »

Not always. Submissive rape is very common. As in-people will often not fight back as they feel if they just lie there and accept it, it'll be over with soon. However, this is a situation that is usually put upon them with no other option other than be raped. They only options they encounter are: "will I be submissive or will I fight back?"

Not "will I be submissive or will I tell him I don't fancy him and end this".

Exactly and i dont want what i am saying above to carry in all places, there are some very horrible individuals out there that will only leave submit or fight option and in this case for sure it is.

All things being equal and this guy is someone who she describes as lovely, so lovely in fact that she didnt want to ruin his life then one would understand that in this context an awkward conversation would have stopped said action.

TheChizler · 27-02-2017 06:45PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

She said no several times, how much clearer can you get. Taking her article at face value she wasn't sending mixed signals, she wasn't all over him, she didn't drag him into the bed room. He started kissing and undressing her. She said said no. What else does she have to do. Does it have to get to the point where she starts screaming, punching him off. Does she have to say no 10 times?

Like I said several times, he didn't take the time to step back and ask was it okay to continue. Even after saying no several times. She communicated that she didn't want this. He persisted.

The crux of your argument seems to require leaving out the crucial part of most other peoples'. The bit where she kissed back and assisted.

hatrickpatrick · 27-02-2017 06:52PM

ibarelycare wrote: »

But if their body language implies that they've changed their mind, where do you stand on that?

It would would help a lot if Rosemary was willing to clarify the recurring questions here, as we're just going around in circles.

Unless they verbally confirm that they have changed their mind, my position remains the same. Not everyone is good at reading body language and a lot of body language is not consciously / voluntarily controllable. It's perfectly possible to be horny and turned on but still not want to f*ck someone FFS.

MuffinTop86 · 27-02-2017 06:55PM

Crea wrote: »

The OP had left put this part of her account :

Right afterwards he asked if I wanted him to leave - "Do you want me to leave?" When I look back this is the part I have the biggest issue with. Up to this point,I would believe you if you told me that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong - that he didn't know that he was taking something I wasn't willing to give. But he knew: the minute it was over, he asked if I wanted him to leave. I said yes. He left.

So he had a fair idea she wasn't a happy bunny.

Maybe straight afterwards she tried to take a post sex selfie or crying selfie. Or maybe she farted in his direction, who knows.

manonboard · 27-02-2017 06:56PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And she feels no iota of regret after trashing the reputation of an ex intimate partner of hers online without giving him an option to present his side of the occurrence and now complains about bullying.

Oh, the irony:rolleyes:

I never even thought of this. It's a real piece of work when i consider it now. I don't think a victim of rape should need to ask the rapist to talk about it. However these circumstances are from those circumstances that would warrant that level of divulgence. There was no court date or formal accusation.
I wonder if the guy in question could take legal actions against her for defamation or reputational damage.

It is indeed sadly ironic that she decided not to ask for his consent to discuss such an intimate encounter. Very little self responsibility.

hatrickpatrick · 27-02-2017 06:57PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

So you've never chanced your arm. She says no, of course you stop, but a few minutes later you try again?

I find it quite hard to believe you haven't at some stage to be honest. I know I certainly have.

I actually haven't to be honest, I have no interest or desire to have sex with a woman who isn't as or even more into it than me. I'm attracted to sexually aggressive women so I haven't had many passive partners, I go for the ones who are all over you and give as good as they get.

Maybe I'm unusual as a lad. There's literally no bigger turn off to me than having sex with a woman who may as well be my pillow based on her lack of participation. I've turned down that kind of sex before because what's the fun? You may as well just be jacking off alone if she's not getting into it like you are.

So if someone tells me they don't want to do it, I don't press further because even if they "consent" by giving in to nagging, it's not going to be any fun. At all.

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 07:02PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I actually haven't to be honest, I have no interest or desire to have sex with a woman who isn't as or even more into it than me. I'm attracted to sexually aggressive women so I haven't had many passive partners, I go for the ones who are all over you and give as good as they get.

Maybe I'm unusual as a lad. There's literally no bigger turn off to me than having sex with a woman who may as well be my pillow based on her lack of participation. I've turned down that kind of sex before because what's the fun? You may as well just be jacking off alone if she's not getting into it like you are.

So if someone tells me they don't want to do it, I don't press further because even if they "consent" by giving in to nagging, it's not going to be any fun. At all.

So what your saying is in your sexual relationship you are submissive and when a woman in a dominant role say no then you take it for granted?

The opposite is true of woman also, they may like their partner to be dominant and doing the chasing.

WoolyJumper · 27-02-2017 07:05PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well yeah if shes going to get raped she should have screamed her lungs out. Wouldnt you?

I don't know how I'd react in that situation. Thankfully it's never happened to me. People are know to shut down in these kinds of situations though.

Calhoun wrote: »

Are you actually telling me that you hold so little value in either woman or the act of rape that if in a situation where being forceful saying no and even fighting back would save you from that you would just lie there and take it because your defenseless or its not a big deal?

He didnt take a step back in this case but she has also said she gave mixed signals as she was kissing him ect.

So are saying its okay to persist even if they are saying no. As long as they are not shouting and screaming its grand. Go ahead and have sex, even if its coming across they don't want it. I personally have a problem with that.

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Her clothes "came off" she deliberately never said who took them off. and she continued kissing him the whole time. Really a case of mixed signals. I think two wrongs don't make a rape. He was wrong to push but she was wrong to keep snogging him. She could have just elaborated and said not tonight mate but that's hard to do if her tongue was in his mouth.

TheChizler wrote: »

The crux of your argument seems to require leaving out the crucial part of most other peoples'. The bit where she kissed back and assisted.

again, I was too ashamed – of my own meanness to say no. I remember thinking, he’ll get the message eventually. We kissed. He tried to undress me. I said no. He tried again – my top came off. I told him I didn’t want to have sex. We kissed some more. He tried to take off my bottoms. I said no

Kissing is not an invitation to sex. Sure it can lead to sex. But if you are kissing someone and attempt to take their top off and they say no. Might be time to reassess the situation. "Can I continue?" "do you want to have sex?" Pretty simple thing to do. Takes a few seconds. Just because they were kissing does not give him the right to sex. She clearly said no several times. Even said I don't want to have sex. He continued regardless. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy but if it were me in this situation and there was some ambiguity about the situation, I'd stop and ask was it okay. Even if we had kissed.

27-02-2017 07:05PM

Rosemary, I assume you're keeping an eye on this thread so I'd just like to say this directly to you if you are;

Feminism has become such a muddled word these days and here's why... It's lost focus of what it is supposed to be. Feminism, historically, was about bringing women up to the level of men i.e. equality. Nowadays, it does more to separate the sexes. Everyone's default setting should be that they're for equality across the board, regardless of gender, race or sexuality. Most vocal feminists I know or have encountered have a real suspicion about men and a bit of a bitterness towards them to be honest. It's so off putting. We are your brothers, partners and confidantes. We love our sisters, significant others and best friends just as you do. Everyone just treat everyone else f*cking equally so there's no need for these labels. They're horrendously divisive ...and that irony is lost on so many hardliners. I hope you have a good day.

hatrickpatrick · 27-02-2017 07:05PM

Calhoun wrote: »

So what your saying is in your sexual relationship you are submissive and when a woman in a dominant role say no then you take it for granted?

The opposite is true of woman also, they may like their partner to be dominant and doing the chasing.

Not at all, I've had sex in both submissive and dominant roles. Being submissive and not being into it are very different things, what I'm saying is that if I have to badger somebody for sex then regardless of their role in a d/s context, they're obviously not actually into it. I wouldn't want to ride anyone who wasn't looking forward to it as much as I was. And I'm not applying that to everyone, I'm merely pointing out that when somebody said "surely you've got sex after pressing for it when initially refused" the answer is no - if she doesn't want it, then sex with her just because I've made her weary of arguing about it is going to be sh!te sex. Come on, it's like when you drag a friend to a concert of a genre they have zero interest in - they may agree to shut you up, but you'll both have a sh!t time. Just as I'd prefer to go to a concert alone than go with somebody who didn't actually want to be there.............. Well, you know where this analogy is going

RabbleRouser2k · 27-02-2017 07:07PM

I noticed this comment on her facebook video- 'There's almost 1200 posts on that Boards thread and you pick one post (which has been deleted by the way) to talk about?

Just so you're aware, 'Attack the post and not the poster' is one of the site wide rules on Boards.ie and so if you would like there to be no comments attacking you on a personal level (about your looks etc) then all you have to do is sign up (if you haven't already) and engage with the users there, and challenge their views...

If they attack you rather than what you have to say, just click the little red triangle at the bottom of the post and report it as 'personal abuse' and hey presto, the user will be actioned.

Or you could just stay in these safe echo chambers I guess, but where's the fun in that

'

And she was challenged on twitter, but she of course hasn't responded or has blocked the person.

https://twitter.com/GrainneLogue/status/836258213649649664

Of course, in the video she claims she wants equal rights for me, but then goes on to say that it's okay to justify Justin Trudeaus booty because men aren't used to it....

hatrickpatrick · 27-02-2017 07:07PM

MuffinTop86 wrote: »

Maybe straight afterwards she tried to take a post sex selfie or crying selfie. Or maybe she farted in his direction, who knows.

I was once with somebody who stopped in the middle of foreplay to take a selfie. I've never been more mystified in my life, TBH. Takes all sorts.....

stevoman · 27-02-2017 07:07PM

I just googled her. Meh.

retro:electro · 27-02-2017 07:08PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I don't know how I'd react in that situation. Thankfully it's never happened to me. People are know to shut down in these kinds of situations though.

So are saying its okay to persist even if they are saying no. As long as they are not shouting and screaming its grand. Go ahead and have sex, even if its coming across they don't want it. I personally have a problem with that.

Kissing is not an invitation to sex. Sure it can lead to sex. But if you are kissing someone and attempt to take their top off and they say no. Might be time to reassess the situation. "Can I continue?" "do you want to have sex?" Pretty simple thing to do. Takes a few seconds. Just because they were kissing does not give him the right to sex. She clearly said no several times. Even said I don't want to have sex. He continued regardless. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy but if it were me in this situation and there was some ambiguity about the situation, I'd stop and ask was it okay. Even if we had kissed.

What you've failed to acknowledge is at some stage, after saying no a few times, but still kissing him, she stopped saying no. She admits this. So, while still kissing him, when it came for the time for sex to be on the cards, she let it happen as it would be easier for her.

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 07:15PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

So are saying its okay to persist even if they are saying no. As long as they are not shouting and screaming its grand. Go ahead and have sex, even if its coming across they don't want it. I personally have a problem with that.

Depends on the person your with and all the other things going on around it, i don't personally believe anyone should be a sex pest i would rather be with someone thats into me but sometimes the dynamics of a couple are such where a no can change.

In this case they were both wrong in my eyes but i dont see it as rape and think any attempt to call it as rape either seriously undermines women or basically says rape is a very simple act that can happen quite easily and we should just not prosecute as we dont want to ruin peoples lives.

27-02-2017 07:16PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Come on, it's like when you drag a friend to a concert of a genre they have zero interest in - they may agree to shut you up, but you'll both have a sh!t time. Just as I'd prefer to go to a concert alone than go with somebody who didn't actually want to be there.............. Well, you know where this analogy is going

It's like that but then them claiming they'd been kidnapped tho!

Tbh I fully agree with the main thrust (ooh matron) of why you're saying and I think most people do, except for the thorny issue of you believing it to be a clear-cut case of sexual assault as opposed to fella being too pushy during a petting sesh

WoolyJumper · 27-02-2017 07:20PM

anna080 wrote: »

What you've failed to acknowledge is at some stage, after saying no a few times, she stopped saying no. She admits this. So when it came for the time for sex to be on the cards, she let it happen.

Yes she stopped saying no, it didn't seem to be working. What people here are failing to acknowledge was no was not enough for him to not even stop but reassess this situation.

Like I've said. I have coffee with several different friends after a night out where they told me of something similar happening. Where they said no several times but the guys kept persisting. So they gave in. They didn't want to, they didn't feel good about. They felt uncomfortable. It never crossed my mind to think my friends were in anyway to blame for this. Them saying no the first time should have been enough for the guy to stop and think, let alone saying no several times.

I'm just not seeing the moral ambiguity in this situation. To me there was a very clear right and wrong.

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 07:21PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not at all, I've had sex in both submissive and dominant roles. Being submissive and not being into it are very different things, what I'm saying is that if I have to badger somebody for sex then regardless of their role in a d/s context, they're obviously not actually into it. I wouldn't want to ride anyone who wasn't looking forward to it as much as I was. And I'm not applying that to everyone, I'm merely pointing out that when somebody said "surely you've got sex after pressing for it when initially refused" the answer is no - if she doesn't want it, then sex with her just because I've made her weary of arguing about it is going to be sh!te sex. Come on, it's like when you drag a friend to a concert of a genre they have zero interest in - they may agree to shut you up, but you'll both have a sh!t time. Just as I'd prefer to go to a concert alone than go with somebody who didn't actually want to be there.............. Well, you know where this analogy is going

So hypothetically if you were in a situation were you were being put upon and kept saying no but they kept going would you just lie there and let it happen?

That is the main argument i am putting across, on the whole being with someone who is not into it, i personally have no interest in chasing someone the whole time but i know people do like that but i dont.

The difference in the analogy you describe with your friend above is they are going because they are a friend and although it will shut you up it will make you happy so they consent to it. Big difference in accommodating someone by going to a concert and getting what you would call raped.

Calhoun · 27-02-2017 07:23PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Yes she stopped saying no, it didn't seem to be working. What people here are failing to acknowledge was no was not enough for him to not even stop but reassess this situation.

Like I've said. I have coffee with several different friends after a night out where they told me of something similar happening. Where they said no several times but the guys kept persisting. So they gave in. They didn't want to, they didn't feel good about. They felt uncomfortable. It never crossed my mind to think my friends were in anyway to blame for this. Them saying no the first time should have been enough for the guy to stop and think, let alone saying no several times.

I'm just not seeing the moral ambiguity in this situation. To me there was a very clear right and wrong.

People acknowledge it but you are failing to see any fault on the otherside.

Do your friends think they were raped? what would have happened to them if they had of said no? were they under threat of violence? Do you think women are inherently inferior to men and need special protection so they dont get talked into being raped?

neonsofa · 27-02-2017 07:27PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I don't know how I'd react in that situation. Thankfully it's never happened to me. People are know to shut down in these kinds of situations though.

So are saying its okay to persist even if they are saying no. As long as they are not shouting and screaming its grand. Go ahead and have sex, even if its coming across they don't want it. I personally have a problem with that.

Kissing is not an invitation to sex. Sure it can lead to sex. But if you are kissing someone and attempt to take their top off and they say no. Might be time to reassess the situation. "Can I continue?" "do you want to have sex?" Pretty simple thing to do. Takes a few seconds. Just because they were kissing does not give him the right to sex. She clearly said no several times. Even said I don't want to have sex. He continued regardless. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy but if it were me in this situation and there was some ambiguity about the situation, I'd stop and ask was it okay. Even if we had kissed.

Yep people do shut down during rape. I did so myself after I realised that me saying no and physically trying to stop him was not stopping him. But I did not decide to lie there because I thought "well at least now I won't have to have an awkward conversation with him". And I did not kiss him after saying no. I made it clear to him that he was not to continue and he did so knowing full well he shouldn't have. This girl says herself that he probably wouldn't consider it rape and that he wasn't pushy.

You're absolutely right, kissing does not mean consent for sex. But if you're saying no to someone and they are not listening stop kissing and make it more clear to them so that everyone knows where they stand- for the same reason people say that men should be asking for consent- for clarity. The man absolutely should have clarified, but she should have too. They both have a responsibility to make things clear and respect each other. That didn't happen in this case and it is unfortunate for all involved.

Danjamin1 · 27-02-2017 07:32PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I noticed this comment on her facebook video- 'There's almost 1200 posts on that Boards thread and you pick one post (which has been deleted by the way) to talk about?

Just so you're aware, 'Attack the post and not the poster' is one of the site wide rules on Boards.ie and so if you would like there to be no comments attacking you on a personal level (about your looks etc) then all you have to do is sign up (if you haven't already) and engage with the users there, and challenge their views...

If they attack you rather than what you have to say, just click the little red triangle at the bottom of the post and report it as 'personal abuse' and hey presto, the user will be actioned.

Or you could just stay in these safe echo chambers I guess, but where's the fun in that '

And she was challenged on twitter, but she of course hasn't responded or has blocked the person.

https://twitter.com/GrainneLogue/status/836258213649649664

Of course, in the video she claims she wants equal rights for me, but then goes on to say that it's okay to justify Justin Trudeaus booty because men aren't used to it....

That's the tweet I liked that got me blocked

Edit: I've since been unblocked and a reason was given for the blocking which I appreciate

WoolyJumper · 27-02-2017 07:35PM

Calhoun wrote: »

People acknowledge it but you are failing to see any fault on the otherside.

Do your friends think they were raped? what would have happened to them if they had of said no? were they under threat of violence? Do you think women are inherently inferior to men and need special protection so they dont get talked into being raped?

Because there isn't fault on the other side. No should be enough.

Do I see it as rape? I don't know is the honest answer. What I do know is what those guys did was wrong. Given what my friends described I am sure those guys knew they didn't want to continue but they didn't put up a fight so they continued regardless.

I do not think women are inherently inferior to men. But I don't deny there is a physical difference between most men and women. Most men are bigger and stronger than most women. Thats just a fact.

I don't know what special protection means but do I think men and women should be aware that no at the very least means I should take a step back from what I'm doing to see if its okay to continue. Absolutely.

mzungu · 27-02-2017 07:40PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Then again, not a surprise. I love how these types have reframed "bravery" into something that is anything but and use selfie sentiment to appeal to emotion. That anybody in a state of distress would then apparently have the wherewithal to pick up a camera and capture the moment and then upload it. Like they upload snapchat pics of their food and fashion. All grist to their solipsistic mill. This is the level of self involvement we've reached. Nothing out of bounds to confess to the great god of social media. The iEgobeast needs feeding, regardless of the presence of google ads or payment. I have often wondered do the therapists such folks almost always attend ever point at that potentially unhealthy aspect and ask WTF?

Ah yes, social media....an emotional arms race!!!

retro:electro · 27-02-2017 07:42PM

I wonder if deep down she knows that it was a bad move to write a blog post about such a confusing and ambiguous situation, with life altering labels attached. Between this, and her decision to leave her factually flawed and completely ill judged piece about McGregor, well it doesn't say much for her journalistic credibility.
I'd be surprised if brands approach for her work in the future- I know (she has admitted) she already struggles to get work as it is.

RabbleRouser2k · 27-02-2017 07:42PM

Danjamin1 wrote: »

That's the tweet I liked that got me blocked

Oh jeez-that's a special kind of...something. Just something.

She keeps a folder of 'meant tweet's' sent to her-and it's like, okay, what are the mean tweets then?Sounds more like Logic, tbh.

Then has the gall to say that Taylor Swift is not a true feminist, but only on the bandwagon-only to be all like 'but I think more people should call themselves feminists'...
:rolleyes:

"Why I did not report my rapist"

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