NEW 2017 InterDepartmental AP1 just announced.

bobbysands81

For serving APs AND the Top 300 on the 2016 InterDepartmental Panel.

Subject: Circular 04/2017: Interdepartmental Competition for appointment to Assistant Principal Higher in the Civil Service.

Dear Personnel Officer,



Please find attached a copy of Circular 04/2017: Interdepartmental Competition for appointment to Assistant Principal Higher in the Civil Service.



Please bring this circular to the attention of all eligible officers (including eligible fixed term workers), those on term-time, maternity leave, career break, secondment and any other relevant forms of leave and ensure that they are notified immediately of the competition.

Prospective candidates should note the closing date for receipt of completed applications is not later than 3pm, on Wednesday 8th March 2017.

Regards

CS HR Policy Division

otwb1

Interesting that the Circular suggests that AP/H only exists in DPER / Finance and D/Taoiseach rather than being a Civil Service wide panel.

As far as I know none of these departments allow flexi time at AP level and parking etc are non existent. Is it worth the move for an existing AP if you're losing the potential for 18 days leave/year? Would love to see the applicant profile for these roles.

psnKOB79LFC

otwb1 wrote: »

Interesting that the Circular suggests that AP/H only exists in DPER / Finance and D/Taoiseach rather than being a Civil Service wide panel.

As far as I know none of these departments allow flexi time at AP level and parking etc are non existent. Is it worth the move for an existing AP if you're losing the potential for 18 days leave/year? Would love to see the applicant profile for these roles.

How are you an ap with an extra 18 days per year? Sounds good

psnKOB79LFC

What are the odds of any of these jobs being outside dublin?

otwb1

psnKOB79LFC wrote:

How are you an ap with an extra 18 days per year? Sounds good

Assuming that AP has access to flexi time.

Not only would I not move from an AP role with flexi for this, I wouldn't move from HEO for it.

hardybuck

I don't know how folks expect to operate as senior management and take 48 days of leave each year. That's just unrealistic.

Nobody appointed to a role above HEO level has access to flexitime anymore.

psnKOB79LFC

hardybuck wrote: »

I don't know how folks expect to operate as senior management and take 48 days of leave each year. That's just unrealistic.

Nobody appointed to a role above HEO level has access to flexitime anymore.

Some AP roles are cushy numbers

otwb1

hardybuck wrote:

I don't know how folks expect to operate as senior management and take 48 days of leave each year. That's just unrealistic.

There is a distinct difference between having the potential for 18 days additional leave (which is what I said in my first post) and actually using any or all of it. The major disincentive is the inflexible nature of the working hours in the Department's that you may be moving to. I would far rather have the ability to bypass traffic and start early, have a short lunchbreak, and retain the potential to leave early/have long hours recognised through a transparent system (ie flexi) rather than an unofficial day off every now and again.

I personally (and the majority of PS managers that I am aware of) rarely have the opportunity to avail of my full leave entitlement. However, having the opportunity to take a 1/2 day to cover family commitments without eating into leave is a significant bonus (as is the ability to actually see my family in the evenings a day or so a week). Standard hours (ie 5.45 min home time) just force people into rush hour traffic and frankly is a waste of time.

No manager that I am aware of will clock watch, most end up working significant unpaid overtime when work demands this. But the opportunity to avail of flexibility during quiet periods is invaluable, and certainly more than the wage differential offered.

hardybuck

otwb1 wrote: »

There is a distinct difference between having the potential for 18 days additional leave (which is what I said in my first post) and actually using any or all of it. The major disincentive is the inflexible nature of the working hours in the Department's that you may be moving to. I would far rather have the ability to bypass traffic and start early, have a short lunchbreak, and retain the potential to leave early/have long hours recognised through a transparent system (ie flexi) rather than an unofficial day off every now and again.

I personally (and the majority of PS managers that I am aware of) rarely have the opportunity to avail of my full leave entitlement. However, having the opportunity to take a 1/2 day to cover family commitments without eating into leave is a significant bonus (as is the ability to actually see my family in the evenings a day or so a week). Standard hours (ie 5.45 min home time) just force people into rush hour traffic and frankly is a waste of time.

No manager that I am aware of will clock watch, most end up working significant unpaid overtime when work demands this. But the opportunity to avail of flexibility during quiet periods is invaluable, and certainly more than the wage differential offered.

I don't think you'll see anything different in DPER, Finance or Taoiseachs.

But I think if you're looking for parking, and don't like the idea of swapping your entitlement for the odd flexi day for a higher salary, then you may as well stay put where you are I suppose.

psnKOB79LFC

psnKOB79LFC wrote: »

What are the odds of any of these jobs being outside dublin?

Bump

hardybuck

psnKOB79LFC wrote: »

Bump

No chance whatsoever.

Uncle P

There's something quite extraordinary about the eligibility criteria for this new competition: unless you're a serving AP2, you can only apply if you made the top 300 in Stage 2 of the current Open AP. This directly contradicts the open access rule that D/PER themselves introduced, i.e. that staff in all grades should be allowed to apply for promotion at any level. It also seems manifestly wrong that you could be barred from competing in one competition because of how you got on in an earlier competition. I can't imagine the unions accepting this. Anyone else have any views on it?

psnKOB79LFC

Uncle P wrote: »

There's something quite extraordinary about the eligibility criteria for this new competition: unless you're a serving AP2, you can only apply if you made the top 300 in Stage 2 of the current Open AP. This directly contradicts the open access rule that D/PER themselves introduced, i.e. that staff in all grades should be allowed to apply for promotion at any level. It also seems manifestly wrong that you could be barred from competing in one competition because of how you got on in an earlier competition. I can't imagine the unions accepting this. Anyone else have any views on it?

Well given that AOs can't apply for HEO positions to get a pay increase I am of the belief that there is no sense to recruitment in general.

Take interdepartmental promotions for example. Oh for the love of God.

LucyLou2017

I am an EO who has wangled a spot in the 'Top 300'. Should I apply for this seeing as I am now eligible or would I be completely embarrassing myself? I didnt expect to come this far.

JD1763

If you're interested in the job and have met the eligibility criteria of course you should apply.  PAS doesn't care about your current grade, if you have the examples to draw upon you have as much chance as anyone else.  Even if you don't get promoted going through the process will prepare you for the next time.
There is no such thing as embarrassment in this process, it is all about grabbing every single opportunity you can for promotion.
Now I must get back to filling in yet another bloody application form

LucyLou2017

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have good policy experience so will give it a go. It will be great to get an insight into the process. Good luck with the form..i will tackle mine anon!

bobbysands81

hardybuck wrote: »

No chance whatsoever.

There is probably a very small chance.

There are AP roles within DPER that are outside Dublin but very few.

bobbysands81

LucyLou2017 wrote: »

I am an EO who has wangled a spot in the 'Top 300'. Should I apply for this seeing as I am now eligible or would I be completely embarrassing myself? I didnt expect to come this far.

Would you not apply for it, hope you make interview, and hope that the experience of that interview helps you with the other AP interview that you have coming up?

As for embarrassing yourself, you got where you got on merit, you have shown you deserve to be where you are. Go for it!

hardybuck

bobbysands81 wrote: »

There is probably a very small chance.

There are AP roles within DPER that are outside Dublin but very few.

I think very few. What businesses are outside Dublin? Shared services, who won't be DPER for too much longer.

Promotions at AP1 level go to DPER policy. Open panel appointments at standard scale go to the shared services offices.

Shared services for the most part are already split from DPER for the purposes of recruitment and promotion, though the waters are certainly a little muddy around this just yet

bobbysands81

hardybuck wrote: »

I think very few. What businesses are outside Dublin? Shared services, who won't be DPER for too much longer.

Promotions at AP1 level go to DPER policy. Open panel appointments at standard scale go to the shared services offices.

What about OGP in Cork?

hardybuck

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What about OGP in Cork?

What about them?

bobbysands81

hardybuck wrote: »

What about them?

Aren't they part of DPER and aren't some of them at AP level?

cee_jay

There are no AP1 posts in OGP or NSSO. All AP1 posts are in the main DPER department.

Bouncybouncy

Does anyone know how easy/difficult it is to take parental leave/SWY in these departments? Is it an issue taking special leave at AP level in DPER/Finance/Taoiseach? Is it possible to workshare?

johnway

FYI For those that are AP who still have access to flexi leave arrangements. PAS have confirmed on acceptance of an AP1 post should you be successful, you will lose the Flexi, similar to any new entrant being currently promoted into the standard AP grade.

bobbysands81

Bouncybouncy wrote: »

Does anyone know how easy/difficult it is to take parental leave/SWY in these departments? Is it an issue taking special leave at AP level in DPER/Finance/Taoiseach? Is it possible to workshare?

Parental Leave has to be given where someone qualifies for it. However, you might struggle to get the days that you require.

SWY can be difficult to get and it can really depend on the section you're in.

Unpaid special leave can be granted in certain cases.

art

cee_jay wrote: »

There are no AP1 posts in OGP or NSSO. All AP1 posts are in the main DPER department.

This is not true. There are AP1 posts in OGP, I have a close relative in one such a position.

hardybuck

art wrote: »

This is not true. There are AP1 posts in OGP, I have a close relative in one such a position.

Did they have it before going in there?

bobbysands81

The wording in the Circular states that:

"The vacancies to be filled from this competition will most likely occur in Dublin" which suggests there is a possibility that there might be some AP1 outside of Dublin.

However, knowing how these things are worded, I would say that it's quite unlikely that there will be appointments outside Dublin.

LucyLou2017

bobbysands81 wrote: »

LucyLou2017 wrote: »

I am an EO who has wangled a spot in the 'Top 300'. Should I apply for this seeing as I am now eligible or would I be completely embarrassing myself? I didnt expect to come this far.

Would you not apply for it, hope you make interview, and hope that the experience of that interview helps you with the other AP interview that you have coming up?

As for embarrassing yourself, you got where you got on merit, you have shown you deserve to be where you are. Go for it!

Yeah i will stick my name in the hat for the experience and see what happens. Im not in the first batch for interview but am hoping they may call more at a later date. I would really love the experience of an interview.

Aglomerado

Same here, EO too. Worth a go!

psnKOB79LFC

bobbysands81 wrote: »

The wording in the Circular states that:

"The vacancies to be filled from this competition will most likely occur in Dublin" which suggests there is a possibility that there might be some AP1 outside of Dublin.

However, knowing how these things are worded, I would say that it's quite unlikely that there will be appointments outside Dublin.

Didn't they say the same for the HEO auditor and I know 2 people offered positions outside of dublin

psnKOB79LFC

Why can't they just saw, there will be jobs in dublin, limerick and cork... for example

cee_jay

Because they don't know yet. However, they do know that the vast majority of posts at AP1 level are in Dublin. The competition is to for a placing on a panel, to be assigned to roles as they occur.

art

hardybuck wrote: »

Did they have it before going in there?

Yes, apologies to cee_jay, I just checked and there are AP1s in the OGP but the actual positions are not considered "AP1" - usual clear as mud stuff.

ammg

Guys,

Our organisation who shall remain nameless only sent this to AP's and higher. Fortunately I am on here and you guys alerted me to my eligibility.

Not impressed!

cee_jay

ammg wrote: »

Guys,

Our organisation who shall remain nameless only sent this to AP's and higher. Fortunately I am on here and you guys alerted me to my eligibility.

Not impressed!

What is your eligibility that you didn't receive it from HR?

ammg

I'm in the too 300 for the AP competition

cee_jay

ammg wrote: »

I'm in the too 300 for the AP competition

I thought PAS would have contacted you directly on that?
Your HR wouldn't have the information that you were top 300.

ammg

Just checked and after stage two I'm outside the top 300

DeirdreDee

cee_jay, PAS told the top 300 they were eligible and in the note they sent to each of the 300, PAS noted that full details of the competition were available from "your HR". PAS sent the circular to each department for each department to make available to their staff. Each department should have circulated the full details to ALL staff.

tea and coffee

Did anyone throw their hat in the ring for this?

LucyLou2017

I submitted an effort at the eleventh hour. Wasnt going to but said what the heck. I dont expect to progress though based on my efforts but am glad i got something in.

LucyLou2017

I submitted an effort at the eleventh hour. Wasnt going to but said what the heck. I dont expect to progress though based on my efforts but am glad i got something in.

tea and coffee

similar. but good to start thinking about the competencies again

LucyLou2017

True. Do you think it will be an exam or shortlisting for this comp?

tea and coffee

Probably shortlisted based on your letter so I'll be out at the first hurdle, lol. then interview for those on the shortlist. that's my guess anyway.

Aglomerado

tea and coffee wrote: »

Did anyone throw their hat in the ring for this?

I was going to but I just had too much going on at work and outside work to devote time to it, I think I'm all competition'd out at the moment as well, AO (successful) and AP done recently.

LucyLou2017

Aglomerado wrote: »

tea and coffee wrote: »

Did anyone throw their hat in the ring for this?

I was going to but I just had too much going on at work and outside work to devote time to it, I think I'm all competition'd out at the moment as well, AO (successful) and AP done recently.

well done on your success with the AO