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No cars in Dublin CC....?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭ Arthur Daley


    It's been going this way for 20 years. They just want cars out of the city. But they love the taxes they bring in, and haven't been spending enough of the funds that did come in from the EU and develooment, on building comprehensive public transport infrastructure.

    There should be a happy medium somewhere.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    It is very simple, cars are the least efficient form of transport for a core city center and there is simply no room for them.

    The traffic counts on the quays quite clearly show that. Today, buses carry 10 times as many people as the cars in the lane beside them. In fact most shockingly, there are almost as many cyclists on this road as there are cars! And that is with almost zero cycling infrastructure in place.

    With this road dedicated mostly to bus, trams and cyclists, it should be able to carry vastly more people then the cars on the same road ever could.

    DCC/NTA originally wanted to ban all cars from this corridor. However the car park owners are too powerful, thus they have to leave access to the car parks in place for now. However all other car traffic will be rightfully heavily restricted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    bk wrote: »
    It is very simple, cars are the least efficient form of transport for a core city center and there is simply no room for them.
    Agreed.

    If you take a look at the canal cordon count published last week, cars are about 69% of traffic (measured in PCUs), but carry only about 32% of the people. https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Canal_Cordon_Report_2016.pdf

    There is a problem that too many people think the only way across the city is via O'Connell Bridge.

    410086.png

    (Images mine)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ newacc2015


    Victor wrote: »
    Agreed.

    If you take a look at the canal cordon count published last week, cars are about 69% of traffic (measured in PCUs), but carry only about 32% of the people. https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Canal_Cordon_Report_2016.pdf

    There is a problem that too many people think the only way across the city is via O'Connell Bridge.

    There are some amount of Dubs, who despite living in Dublin either life dont know shortcuts around the city. I know some people who can do a journey from the surburbs into town in 15 mins, when it takes others 30 mins. People only take the main wide roads in and out of the City. Never the side streets or less congested roads. If you take the awkward side streets in between the canal, you can half your journey


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    The number of people in the county has increased by around 50% since the 70s. The satellite towns in the GDA experienced dizzying population increases.

    Yes, cars have to go. There's no room. And I include taxis in that. Investment in public transport (especially rail) and cycling should go in hand with banning private cars though. It shouldn't be just a case of pushing cars out, sitting back, admiring your handywork and calling it a job well done.

    I've said it so many times but build DART Underground and Metro North.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,208 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    Peregrine wrote: »
    It shouldn't be just a case of pushing cars out, sitting back, admiring your handywork and calling it a job well done.
    Note that bus improvements aren't just about moving passengers more quickly. It is also about letting the vehicle move more quickly, allowing many buses to make a second or third journey during the peak, increasing bus capacity by 30-50% for no extra buses or staff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,601 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990


    I would agree with banning cars from Dublin City Centre.

    It should be the norm in most european countries where favourable & reliable PT is seen as a priority for the city's inhabitants.

    Dublin, in particular around O'Connell Street, should cope much better without cars as traffic levels will be at a more manageable level for that part of the city with LUAS CC going through it. It will also count as a positive as it will cause less pollution for the area overall.

    The bigger difference in alleviating traffic levels though would be to build the original DU & MN for Dublin.

    The only reason for not building them is stupid laziness & lack of common sense from the NTA & government to say no to them because of high cost.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    The bigger difference in alleviating traffic levels though would be to build the original DU & MN for Dublin.

    Yes, though it is worth pointing out that even if these went ahead, you would still want to go ahead with reducing cars in the city.

    For instance look at London, it has the fantastic and comprehensive London Underground network. Yes despite how good it is, London Bus still carries twice as many passengers as LU does every day. Which is why they have congestion charging and similar bus priorities gates and routes, to keep these buses moving.

    I only mention that, because sometimes I see people saying we should build MN and DU, because in the back of their heads they are thinking, we get all the "poor" people on public transport underground and I can continue to drive right into the heart of the city every day.

    The only reason for not building them is stupid laziness & lack of common sense from the NTA & government to say no to them because of high cost.

    In fairness to the NTA, everything I've seen and heard from them makes me think they really do want to build MN and DU. Any of the plans I've ever read from them make perfect sense and bring in international public transport best practice.

    The issue is the government who won't sign off on it as they are more interested in filling pot holes back in their rural villages.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    bk wrote: »
    It is very simple, cars are the least efficient form of transport for a core city center and there is simply no room for them.

    The traffic counts on the quays quite clearly show that. Today, buses carry 10 times as many people as the cars in the lane beside them. In fact most shockingly, there are almost as many cyclists on this road as there are cars! And that is with almost zero cycling infrastructure in place.

    With this road dedicated mostly to bus, trams and cyclists, it should be able to carry vastly more people then the cars on the same road ever could.

    DCC/NTA originally wanted to ban all cars from this corridor. However the car park owners are too powerful, thus they have to leave access to the car parks in place for now. However all other car traffic will be rightfully heavily restricted.
    I'd have cyclists banned from any major pedestrian thoroughfare or plaza!

    Keep off our Footpaths!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    It's been going this way for 20 years. They just want cars out of the city. But they love the taxes they bring in, and haven't been spending enough of the funds that did come in from the EU and develooment, on building comprehensive public transport infrastructure.

    There should be a happy medium somewhere.
    You've got it in one mate! :)

    They want to rip off motorists and yet force people from their cars without providing adequate alternatives. For a start...

    DART Interconnector...
    Now!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,319 ✭✭✭ derekeire


    If they had large park and ride facilities at the the major M50 intersections and a good bus service into and out of the city centre along with a bus service along the M50, it might encourage people to use the public transport.
    Am sure people don't really want to have to sit in traffic for hours each day, however they in most cases have no alternative.

    SH24.ie - free, confidential, at home STI screening. Get tested boys and girls.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    derekeire wrote: »
    If they had large park and ride facilities at the the major M50 intersections and a good bus service into and out of the city centre along with a bus service along the M50, it might encourage people to use the public transport.
    Am sure people don't really want to have to sit in traffic for hours each day, however they in most cases have no alternative.
    +1

    Luas and P+R (just before the M50 intersections) would certainly do it!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Mod:

    @ MiddleMan

    Please stop using large texts in posts. It is not helpful, is unpleasant to look at, and your choice of colour suggests you should see an Eye specialist, and not only that, it will get you banned.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Such a flawed logic every time you have your little dig at cyclists. Back it up with some facts why don't you?

    Every well managed City in Europe has a large emphasis on cycling as part of the transport network. You are blinded by your dislike for cyclists. It's bizarre

    Facts? If you work in the city, just look around you when walking the streets - cyclists on footpaths, on designated tram lanes, breaking red lights etc. I'm sure you'll see plenty of examples...


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,082 ✭✭✭✭ ED E


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Facts? If you work in the city, just look around you when walking the streets - cyclists on footpaths, on designated tram lanes, breaking red lights etc. I'm sure you'll see plenty of examples...

    Anecdotes != facts....


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,360 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes


    I hope banning of cars includes the often times predatory taxis in the bus lanes and hopping in front of the Aircoaches for the airport. I could go on....

    Yeah right. But everyone is afraid of them and they will reign on the new College Green set up too.

    Just saying.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Is this how you want Dublin's civic spaces to look?

    To me, it's plain ugly - pedestrianisation and trams look far better IMO!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Ya of the 12000+ cyclists in Dublin every day I am sure the vast majority cycle on footpaths & dedicated tram lines. The ones who break red lights should be fined of course. It's still an irrational position to take on cycling from someone who clearly has a desire to improve transport in Dublin.

    You see, the thing about cycling is that it's just another form of private transport - merely a condensed version of "cars, cars and more cars". I'm very concerned as a pedestrian I have to say!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,406 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    So to all the ban-niks. What do you propose all the people from well outside Dublin do when they drive to Dublin and need access to entities in the city center?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Too many cyclists sounds a lot better than too many private cars. And all the space the take up and damage they cause.

    Pedestrians should of course be priority No.1 but until you reduce the space taken up by private cars pedestrians are getting a raw deal.

    Check out the footpath opposite the AIB on baggot street. Barely wide enough to walk single file yet space for two extra wide lanes of cars.

    Well with a comprehensive transit system and decent footpaths, you wouldn't need to drive or cycle much at all - for example, I had a look at Limerick City and found that it was possible to put in two light rail lines and have much of the city within 500m of a station - again with decent footpaths, not much need for cars or bicycles to get around that city then, is there?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Sure!

    The image for the cars is zoomed in did you notice?
    Also, did I not say 'condensed' in my statement?
    BTW, what scored best - you guessed it: Public Transport!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,360 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes


    cnocbui wrote: »
    So to all the ban-niks. What do you propose all the people from well outside Dublin do when they drive to Dublin and need access to entities in the city center?

    In a few years NO ONE will be driving in the city. As it is it's a nightmare.

    And that applies to boggers and natives alike. But most people know this already.

    The only nice time to drive to Dublin city is before 10am on a Sunday morning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,082 ✭✭✭✭ ED E


    Middle Man wrote: »
    Well with a comprehensive transit system and decent footpaths, you wouldn't need to drive or cycle much at all - for example, I had a look at Limerick City and found that it was possible to put in two light rail lines and have much of the city within 500m of a station - again with decent footpaths, not much need for cars or bicycles to get around that city then, is there?

    That post just shows how clueless you are.


    A right lay "X" shall we say will get everyone to the centre, it wont serve as the shortest path between other points. Cities with great metro systems (London, Paris, Barcelona) all still see significant levels of cycling. Have a little think on that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    cnocbui wrote: »
    So to all the ban-niks. What do you propose all the people from well outside Dublin do when they drive to Dublin and need access to entities in the city center?

    Park and Ride!

    We need more sites like the Red Cow P+R...
    More Luas lines too!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    ED E wrote: »
    That post just shows how clueless you are.


    A right lay "X" shall we say will get everyone to the centre, it wont serve as the shortest path between other points. Cities with great metro systems (London, Paris, Barcelona) all still see significant levels of cycling. Have a little think on that.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3815343/You-stop-s-LAW-Angry-pedestrian-blocks-cyclist-gives-earful-tries-speed-zebra-crossing.html

    Yeah! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,406 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Park and ride, park and dublin bikes, get the bus/train from where you live, fly to Dublin airport and get the bus to town.

    So ridiculously expensive, and far longer journey times are offered as practical solutions. Rather what I thought.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Ah he is unable to think rationally on it. I'd swear he thinks cars are a better option than cycling. It makes zero sense.

    Well yeah, in the sense that cycling comes last - Luas is the best solution for getting around town along with walking!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Final word - the future will probably see cycle tracks being dug up as an ever expanding network of tram tracks along with high quality footways take their place!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    So you are saying cars are a better option than cycling for Dublin? That's what we should do, ban cycling and encourage more private cars in the city centre?

    Also Dublin Bus is far more important than the Luas.

    So anyone that's against cycling is all for cars over everything else??? :rolleyes:
    Well then, why the hell do I want more trams, trains and quality footways?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭ Middle Man


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Ah he is unable to think rationally on it. I'd swear he thinks cars are a better option than cycling. It makes zero sense.

    Well, you seem so fanatically anti-car...

    How come you're thinking rationally and I'm not????

    Double standards it seems!


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