New bus lanes for Dublin City Centre by August

StreetLight

From RTE.ie:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0220/854115-bus-lanes/


"Extra bus lanes are planned for the busiest sections of Dublin's quays to prepare for the Cross City Luas.

Spanish Eyes

I think this proposal has been well flagged. But one thing I am not too sure of...

Are buses still going to turn right onto O'Connell Bridge, or be sent down Eden Quay to turn right at Rosie Hackett Bridge?

I can't see a benefit to buses turning right at OCB if they still have to ease out into the right hand lane to turn.

But someone may know more about this.

ED E

Have AGS agreed to taking another two out of pearse each shift to police this? Or put up ANPR along it? Otherwise its rather futile.

Tow

ED E wrote: »

Have AGS agreed to taking another two out of pearse each shift to police this? Or put up ANPR along it? Otherwise its rather futile.

This is Ireland, easier to stick bodies on the problem than use modern technology.

bk

I get the feeling we will see a hell of a lot more ANPR and red light cameras, now that it has already been trialled by Luas/DCC and the little public resistance to it. With Luas Cross City, it will become even more important to properly enforce this and I suspect we will see these cameras spread throughout the core city center.

monument

Report from city council including low-quality images of the road layout drawings:

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=9290

dublinman1990

I just seen from the plan that this extra lane on Burgh Quay will begin from Rosie Hackett Bridge.

It will be placed on the left hand side of Burgh Quay for buses to go straight onto Aston Quay & further down the Quays.

I also see there still be a right turn for vehicles going from Burgh Quay onto O'Connell Bridge but it will remain a normal lane.

I suppose that buses from Burgh Quay will still be able to turn right there?

I also see that the existing bus lane from Eden Quay onto Rosie Hackett Bridge will still remain in place as before.

I will guess that buses travelling from Bachelor's Walk will have to use that right hand bus lane to get to the south of the city centre.

slavetothegrind

a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.

cgcsb

I take it from that document and drawings that plans for a 2 way cycle route on the north quays have been quietly dumped, given stoneybatter residents opposition.

bk

slavetothegrind wrote: »

a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.

Shrug, Remember you are the traffic congestion!

Yes, traffic congestion will get worse, shrug. Get out of your car and get on a bike or take one of the buses which will be speeding along these new bus priority roads.

The numbers are clear, even today, before these changes, the buses on the quays are carrying 10 times as many people as the cars are. Hell there are even almost as many cyclists as there are cars! And that is without even any decent cycling infrastructure in place.

It is clear that if you take the cars off these roads and give more space and priority over to the buses and bikes, these roads will carry vastly more people then is possible by car.

Infini

Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.

ted1

slavetothegrind wrote: »

a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.

You know the solution?? Get the LUAS, Bus or cycle. Remove property cars from the city and it'll thrive

bk

Infini2 wrote: »

Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.

Basically the plan is to ban all cars from the core city center and rightfully so.

They would probably ban cars completely from the quays if they could, but the car park owners are too powerful, so they are leaving some very limited access to the car parks. However it is clear from this plan, that unless you are heading to a car park, you would be insane to drive into the city and most of the road space will be buses and trams.

cgcsb

Infini2 wrote: »

Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.

If it's a bottle neck due to inadequate road space, then the solution is to reduce the space available to least efficient user of that space. i.e. the car.
Expediting peak hour bus services equals reduced congestion the world over.

"There isn't room for a bus lane" is an oxymoron. There isn't room for an inefficient car lane.

slavetothegrind

you assume everyone is within public transport range.
Not the case.

bk

slavetothegrind wrote: »

you assume everyone is within public transport range.
Not the case.

To add to what Deedsie said above very well. Nothing stopping you from parking at one of the many carparks outside the city center, for instance those at Dart stations, Luas stations, etc. and taking public transport the rest of the way in, as would be common in most European cities.

monument

slavetothegrind wrote: »

you assume everyone is within public transport range.
Not the case.

Are you assuming the near 10,000 people on buses at peak hours and the likely 10,000+ people per hour at peak on trams crossing the river should be held up by ~600 people in cars?

Just to be clear on this: no access to any car park, public or private workplace parking is to be blocked. Will some car trips be a bit more inconvenient? They sure will.... if that worth it for stopping total gridlock for buses, trams and cars? It seem to be!

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Basically the plan is to ban all cars from the core city center and rightfully so.

They would probably ban cars completely from the quays if they could, but the car park owners are too powerful, so they are leaving some very limited access to the car parks. However it is clear from this plan, that unless you are heading to a car park, you would be insane to drive into the city and most of the road space will be buses and trams.

Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

At least some of these units could and should be Compulsorily Purchased and converted to Public Transport orientated Interchanges for Bus/Taxi/Cycle and whatever usage.

However,until we know who their shareholders (and family members) are,the clarity will always be lacking.

At the very least,the MSCP's accessed from O Connell St should be reconfigured or closed down immediately,as the City Centre project itself must work outward from the GPO for maximum effect.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

To add to what Deedsie said above very well. Nothing stopping you from parking at one of the many carparks outside the city center, for instance those at Dart stations, Luas stations, etc. and taking public transport the rest of the way in, as would be common in most European cities.

And the occasional non-European,Irish City too......:eek:

http://www.translink.co.uk/Services/Other-Translink-Services/Park--Ride/Park--Ride-FAQs/

4. Who runs the Park & Ride sites?

All rail based P&R sites are provided by Translink. In addition, Translink provide car parking facilities at some bus stations. All other bus-based P&R sites are provided by DRD Roads Service with Translink providing the formal bus service.

magicbastarder

AlekSmart wrote: »

Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed

the granting of permission for the BT car park has to be one of the worst planning decisions DCC has made (maybe not quite the same as the decision to build on wood quay).

access to, and exit from, this car park are on ludicrously narrow back streets which should be pedestrianised.

Chuchote

AlekSmart wrote: »

Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

How profitable are these car parks? More profitable than using the space for commerce or housing?

Should the council build a ring of cheaper-to-use multistorey car parks as park-and-ride at the canals?

Tenzor07

Who the heck can afford to pay for city centre parking on a continuous basis, and also, how high up do you have to be in a company to be allocated a parking space in one of the most expensive cities for property in Ireland?

So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?

Chuchote

There's also the question of free parking or €100-a-year parking for certain public servants.

bk

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Who the heck can afford to pay for city centre parking on a continuous basis, and also, how high up do you have to be in a company to be allocated a parking space in one of the most expensive cities for property in Ireland?

So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?

Mostly free or very cheap parking for civil servants.

Tow

AlekSmart wrote: »

Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

There are around 6,000 Public Sector parking spaces in the city, many are paid for by the tax payer and are in those private multi story car parks.

Then you have the €200 annual Parking Levy, which was never implemented....

Chuchote

Discussion about public servants' free parking:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055749367

Not to mention Pearse Street Garda Station's gulp of road space on the busiest street in the capital:

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Pearse+St,+Dublin/@53.3453523,-6.2546923,127a,20y,270h,38.81t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670e91919cfa79:0x71d0ae3c2b02ffd1!8m2!3d53.3438481!4d-6.2478605?hl=en

hatrickpatrick

ted1 wrote: »

You know the solution?? Get the LUAS, Bus or cycle. Remove property cars from the city and it'll thrive

1: What about people who have to do a big shop? Storage facilities on public transport in Dublin are absolute sh!te (essentially non-existent).

2: Extend public transport. More frequency and longer hours.

3: Sort out the absolutely ridiculous skyrocketing fares on all forms of public transport.

Until these issues are addressed, the "put up and shut up" attitude to cars is moronic. There's a reason more people don't take public transport.

hatrickpatrick

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?

People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).

Chivito550

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).

Heard it all now. Somebody who can't afford a weekly cap of 27.50 on a leap card for Dublin Bus, (or 4:10 to 5.20 for a return trip) but who can afford to drive a car into the city centre, using petrol/diesel and paying for parking. Suuuuuure.

bk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

1: What about people who have to do a big shop? Storage facilities on public transport in Dublin are absolute sh!te (essentially non-existent).

- Drive to a shopping center like Blanchardstown
- Order online for delivery, Amazon, Tesco online, etc.
- Simply carry it on the bus like lots of people already do.

Seriously how do you think the many people who don't own cars do it?!

Today, only 19.7% of people who shop in Dublin City Center got there by car. 56% get there by public transport and 21.4% by walking:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-survey-shows-importance-of-public-transport-passengers-to-dublin-city-centre-retailers/

Seriously how do you think all those people get their shopping home!

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There's a reason more people don't take public transport.

Except most people in Dublin City center for work or shopping DO in fact get their by public transport, walking or cycling as you can see from the above survey and many other similar surveys. In fact the vast majority do.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).

- Most shoppers already get there by public transport or walking
- Public transport while not cheap, is still much cheaper then actually owning a car.
- You get a taxi home or cycle, also nothing stopping you from using one of the car parks that you will still have access to. They are only really blocking through traffic.
- Most of the city and suburbs is covered by regular bus services. There are very few routes that only run once or twice a day and where they are there also more regular services close by. Also nothing stopping you from driving to your closest DART or Luas station, leaving the car there and getting public transport in the rest of the way as many people do every day.

BTW I do agree that Dublin Bus should operate 24/7, but that is a conversation for another day.

But the rest of your points aren't valid as the majority of people who live and work in Dublin City Center already manage to do so without a car.

prinzeugen

Busses will still be backed up. Traffic on the quays will be halted of both sides of the quays every time a Luas wants to cross the Liffey.

hatrickpatrick

Deedsie wrote: »

Who does a grocery shop in the city centre that doesnt already live in the city centre?

Who only ever shops for groceries and never for anything else?

There are a vast amount of private cars driving into the city centre everyday and they are not shopping. Most are working and they contribute to traffic congestion.

Reduce fares, increase frequency and increase route coverage.

Spend any amount of time in another major city and you'll realise how crappy the service is in Ireland compared with elsewhere. I went to New York with my dad years back and we never once took a cab because the subway was so frequent and because there was practically nowhere you couldn't get to. Contrast that with Ireland where a 15 minute wait between DARTS and sometimes a 30 minute wait between busses is the norm, couples with more than €5 a day just to get in and out of the city - it's ridiculous.

schemingbohemia

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Who only ever shops for groceries and never for anything else?



Reduce fares, increase frequency and increase route coverage.

Spend any amount of time in another major city and you'll realise how crappy the service is in Ireland compared with elsewhere. I went to New York with my dad years back and we never once took a cab because the subway was so frequent and because there was practically nowhere you couldn't get to. Contrast that with Ireland where a 15 minute wait between DARTS and sometimes a 30 minute wait between busses is the norm, couples with more than €5 a day just to get in and out of the city - it's ridiculous.

You do know €5 won't even get you 2 hours parking in the city centre so using that as an excuse for not using public transport is just wrong.

bk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Who only ever shops for groceries and never for anything else?

And what Blanchardstown, etc. don't exist?

Or Amazon and thousands of other sites with online delivery?

Or if you have ever been on a bus you will see people clutching bags full of clothes and household items they have bought in town.

Again less then 20% of people who shop in Dublin City Center get there by car. The other 80% some how manage it :rolleyes:

magicbastarder

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Reduce fares, increase frequency and increase route coverage.

eh; that's what the bus lane modifications are trying to help with. you want them to achieve all the above without taking steps necessary to achieve the above.

magicbastarder

i think the biggest issue here is brown thomas. too many people who shop there who wouldn't be seen dead on public transport, hence the need for the car park at the back. maybe we should forcibly move BT out to monkstown.

hatrickpatrick

bk wrote: »

- Drive to a shopping center like Blanchardstown
- Order online for delivery, Amazon, Tesco online, etc.

Not an option if you need to buy a particular item from a particular shop and that is only available in the city.

- Simply carry it on the bus like lots of people already do.

Not an option if you have a lot of purchases and not enough space to store them, particularly at busy times.

Seriously how do you think the many people who don't own cars do it?!

With great difficulty - I'm one of those people myself. But if I wasn't able to get the occasional lift, some things, such as gigging in the city with a lot of equipment, would be simply impossible.

Today, only 19.7% of people who shop in Dublin City Center got there by car. 56% get there by public transport and 21.4% by walking:

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-survey-shows-importance-of-public-transport-passengers-to-dublin-city-centre-retailers/

Seriously how do you think all those people get their shopping home!

So you're honestly saying that you can't think of a single instance in which somebody might need their own transport for shopping?

Except most people in Dublin City center for work or shopping DO in fact get their by public transport, walking or cycling as you can see from the above survey and many other similar surveys. In fact the vast majority do.

Then why is congestion still a problem?

- Most shoppers already get there by public transport or walking

Most. Not all. See above.

- Public transport while not cheap, is still much cheaper then actually owning a car.

You're assuming there's only one occupant in each car. Think about families and car shares and that situation becomes vastly different.

- You get a taxi home

For me that would be €30 a night.

or cycle

Not an option again if you're carrying a lot of gear for whatever reason.

also nothing stopping you from using one of the car parks that you will still have access to. They are only really blocking through traffic.

This is untrue - they are trying, as they have publicly stated, to make it as much of a nuisance as possible to drive around the city.

- Most of the city and suburbs is covered by regular bus services.

:pac:

There are very few routes that only run once or twice a day and where they are there also more regular services close by.

That's what you call "regular"? I'm sorry, but waiting 45 minutes for a bus in the pissing rain and when you have a lot of gear with you is ridiculous.

Also nothing stopping you from driving to your closest DART or Luas station, leaving the car there and getting public transport in the rest of the way as many people do every day.

Unless, as I've already stated, you have a lot of things to transport. How difficult is this to understand?

BTW I do agree that Dublin Bus should operate 24/7, but that is a conversation for another day.

It absolutely isn't, the two go 100% hand in hand. Without a 24/7 public transport system, driving is an absolute necessity for some people.

But the rest of your points aren't valid as the majority of people who live and work in Dublin City Center already manage to do so without a car.

Then car users are the minority. What's your point? They're still citizens and still need to be able to live their lives.

hatrickpatrick

magicbastarder wrote: »

eh; that's what the bus lane modifications are trying to help with. you want them to achieve all the above without taking steps necessary to achieve the above.

Building bus lanes on every street in Ireland won't increase services and reduce fares unless the government bring their annual subventions back into line with the European average.

bk

hatrickpatrick I've lived 15 years in Dublin now, don't own a car (could easily afford one if I wanted) and yet I own my own place and it is full of all the same things that everyone elses is!

Sofa, beds, kitchen appliances, TV, etc. Went to a shop, picked them out and most delivered to my home for free or something minimal like €10.

Medium sized electrical items and toys, mostly order from Amazon, delivered to my door for free.

I pay Tesco €10 per month for unlimited grocery deliveries right to my door, it is brilliant. I also have lots of nice small grocery, veg, bakery and butcher shops 5 minutes walk away.

Clothes and shoes I would shop in town for, but they don't typically weigh much, one or two bags are super easy to take home in the bus.

To be honest, you are being very closed minded if you think you need a car to do any of the above.

magicbastarder

are we actually talking about a ban on private cars in the city centre, or was it just a casual 'it'd be great if we could remove the scourge of the single occupant private car' sort of comment?

hmmm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not an option if you have a lot of purchases and not enough space to store them, particularly at busy times.

Then don't shop for bulky stuff at busy times. Cars are not being banned, public transport is being prioritised.

There's a whole host of contradictory public policies and people's attitudes clashing here, and it's inevitably going to be a mess. We have caps on heights in the city centre, meaning more people live outside the city. We have lowrise office parks scattered everywhere, and to get there using PT would mean most people having to get two buses. We have people living in one off houses who don't have access to public transport because the density isn't there. We have all our PT systems using the same bit of road space because we haven't built a metro.

Tinkering is no good - we need some form of transport/city Czar/Mayor with powers to cut through contradictory public policies.

drake70

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think the biggest issue here is brown thomas. too many people who shop there who wouldn't be seen dead on public transport, hence the need for the car park at the back. maybe we should forcibly move BT out to monkstown farm.

Fixed that for ya :pac:

bk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not an option if you need to buy a particular item from a particular shop and that is only available in the city.

Really, name one item that can't be gotten online?

I literally can't think of a single one. I prefer to try on clothes in person for obvious reasons, but still super easy to carry home.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not an option if you have a lot of purchases and not enough space to store them, particularly at busy times.

Bull mate, it is easy to carry two or three bags on the bus, even at busy times. I do it all the time.

If you have more then that just drive to Blandcharstown or buy online for delivery.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

With great difficulty - I'm one of those people myself. But if I wasn't able to get the occasional lift, some things, such as gigging in the city with a lot of equipment, would be simply impossible.

Gigging in the city is a different story. Road access will remain for deliveries, services, etc.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So you're honestly saying that you can't think of a single instance in which somebody might need their own transport for shopping?

I honestly can't, please point one out?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Then why is congestion still a problem?

What, congestion is a problem because the bus lane is carrying ten times the number of people as the car! Now I've read it all.

Can you imagine what congestion would be like if those buses disappeared and those 10 times as many people all took their cars into town instead!

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You're assuming there's only one occupant in each car. Think about families and car shares and that situation becomes vastly different.

Actually my numbers take that into account. Go read the NTA/DCC report. They take into account the number of people actually in the cars, works out at about 1.5 per car and the actual numbers of people on each bus.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For me that would be €30 a night.

Shrug, so out as far as about Dun Laoghaire, I've paid that loads of times myself when I was dating a girl from there. Still cheaper then owning a car.

But as I said I agree that Dublin Bus should operate 24/7

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not an option again if you're carrying a lot of gear for whatever reason.

Most people aren't gigging and aren't carrying lots of gear. Obviously their will still be access for deliveries, vans, service vehicles, etc.

How do you think giggers do it in cities like Amsterdam that are highly pedestrianised?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is untrue - they are trying, as they have publicly stated, to make it as much of a nuisance as possible to drive around the city.

Of course they are, because the car is by far the least efficient form of transport in a dense city centre.

Do you have an alternative plan for the congestion which will only get worse at the cities population is growing so fast?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's what you call "regular"? I'm sorry, but waiting 45 minutes for a bus in the pissing rain and when you have a lot of gear with you is ridiculous.

Well we have gone from 2 buses a day to one every 45 minutes now :rolleyes:

Would you like to point out what bus route operates every 45 minutes?

Because very few do, most of Dublin Buses routes now operate every 10 minutes peak.

Also you can always drive to the closest Luas or Dart station and park there or to a car park close to a busy bus route.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Unless, as I've already stated, you have a lot of things to transport. How difficult is this to understand?

Again, the vast majority of people aren't giggers and carrying music equipment.

Such people will still have access, like other service vehicles do.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It absolutely isn't, the two go 100% hand in hand. Without a 24/7 public transport system, driving is an absolute necessity for some people.

No it isn't, as I mentioned, 15 years in Dublin without a car, it really isn't difficult.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Then car users are the minority. What's your point? They're still citizens and still need to be able to live their lives.

Because while they are a minority, they take up the majority of road space, which is very clearly inefficient.

What gives one person the right to take up the same amount of space as 10 people in a bus next them?

What gives motorists the right to more then 50% of the road space, when they make up just 20% of the people shopping in town?

Can't you see why that is horribly unfair on the other 80%

Also there is the simply reality that Dublin City population is growing rapidly and the congestion will simply get worse unless we do something about it.

We simply can't fit any more cars on our roads, so unless you have an alternative plan, then it makes more sense to give over more of the road space over to forms of transport that use it more efficiently.

bk

magicbastarder wrote: »

are we actually talking about a ban on private cars in the city centre, or was it just a casual 'it'd be great if we could remove the scourge of the single occupant private car' sort of comment?

They aren't actually banning cars from the city center. However this plan will ban cars from some of the key core city center streets, which will stop cars from just driving through the city and will realistically make it less attractive to drive into the city.

Car will still be allowed and still have access to car parks etc. They just won't have priority any more.

monument

magicbastarder wrote: »

the granting of permission for the BT car park has to be one of the worst planning decisions DCC has made (maybe not quite the same as the decision to build on wood quay).

access to, and exit from, this car park are on ludicrously narrow back streets which should be pedestrianised.

Planners in Amsterdam made the same mistake with a car park linked to a BT-like retailer who is owned by the same family as BT.

And the car park is still causing problems in Amsterdam too.

bk wrote: »

Mostly free or very cheap parking for civil servants.

For most state department and other agencies this was over blown -- look at the Central Bank, they don't currently have parking for all of their staff and they will have less with more staff at their new location.

monument

...I'm confused... are people on this thread suggesting there'll be shops made inaccessible by this plan? Which shops and where to you currently park near there shops?

magicbastarder

bk wrote: »

Actually my numbers take that into account. Go read the NTA/DCC report. They take into account the number of people actually in the cars, works out at about 1.5 per car and the actual numbers of people on each bus.

i didn't think it was as high as 1.5 per car, i remember reading about ten years ago that it was about 1.2.

and i've often wondered do they subtract the taxi driver from the count in taxis (which would result in 0 occupancy cars being counted, but hey)

magicbastarder

monument wrote: »

...I'm confused... are people on this thread suggesting there'll be shops made inaccessible by this plan? Which shops and where to you currently park near there shops?

i am outraged by the idea that i will not be able to carry my chest freezer i buy in arnotts back to my parked car.

Chuchote

Amazing the culture change. My parents rarely had a car, but in the 1950s-60s and into 70s, everything was delivered - the bread van, the butcher's van and the laundry van called to homes; you'd walk to the fishmonger's and greengrocers (which were every couple of streets) to choose your fresh fish and vegetables and, in the earlier years, get your butter weighed out and wrapped in greaseproof paper. Then the shops consolidated into supermarkets, and got the shoppers to do the transporting instead of the shops doing the delivering. You can still get big stuff delivered, and the price isn't generally that huge, but it's so outside the culture that people are shocked at the idea of paying a tenner to get a cooker or a fridge delivered.

bk

Chuchote wrote: »

Amazing the culture change. My parents rarely had a car, but in the 1950s-60s and into 70s, everything was delivered - the bread van, the butcher's van and the laundry van called to homes; you'd walk to the fishmonger's and greengrocers (which were every couple of streets) to choose your fresh fish and vegetables and, in the earlier years, get your butter weighed out and wrapped in greaseproof paper. Then the shops consolidated into supermarkets, and got the shoppers to do the transporting instead of the shops doing the delivering. You can still get big stuff delivered, and the price isn't generally that huge, but it's so outside the culture that people are shocked at the idea of paying a tenner to get a cooker or a fridge delivered.

Though funnily enough, the old ways are starting to come back.

Tesco online delivery has massively taken off. When I work from home, I see them doing multiple deliveries to my apartment every day.

An Post, DHL, etc. guys all know me by first name from frequent deliveries from Amazon, etc. and I see them doing the same every day for others in the building.

Deliveroo doing food deliveries. Fresh food and vegetable delivery services have massively taken off.

There is a company who will come and collect dry cleaning from your home and return it when finished.

Really not hard not too own a car in Dublin these days.

prinzeugen

Not everyone can afford to pay for everything to be delivered so collecting it in the car might be the only option.

The price some places charge for delivery is almost the same as the cost of the item.

I recently paid a mate €20 petrol money to run me around 3-4 places buying/collecting stuff to do up the kitchen.

Would have cost me about €80 to have it all delivered.

Just because not having a car works for you, it does not mean that it will work for everyone else.