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New bus lanes for Dublin City Centre by August

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Comments

  • #2
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,121 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I think this proposal has been well flagged. But one thing I am not too sure of...

    Are buses still going to turn right onto O'Connell Bridge, or be sent down Eden Quay to turn right at Rosie Hackett Bridge?

    I can't see a benefit to buses turning right at OCB if they still have to ease out into the right hand lane to turn.

    But someone may know more about this.


  • #3
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Have AGS agreed to taking another two out of pearse each shift to police this? Or put up ANPR along it? Otherwise its rather futile.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ED E wrote: »
    Have AGS agreed to taking another two out of pearse each shift to police this? Or put up ANPR along it? Otherwise its rather futile.

    This is Ireland, easier to stick bodies on the problem than use modern technology.


  • #5
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I get the feeling we will see a hell of a lot more ANPR and red light cameras, now that it has already been trialled by Luas/DCC and the little public resistance to it. With Luas Cross City, it will become even more important to properly enforce this and I suspect we will see these cameras spread throughout the core city center.


  • #6
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,107 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Report from city council including low-quality images of the road layout drawings:

    https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=9290


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  • #7
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,878 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I just seen from the plan that this extra lane on Burgh Quay will begin from Rosie Hackett Bridge.

    It will be placed on the left hand side of Burgh Quay for buses to go straight onto Aston Quay & further down the Quays.

    I also see there still be a right turn for vehicles going from Burgh Quay onto O'Connell Bridge but it will remain a normal lane.

    I suppose that buses from Burgh Quay will still be able to turn right there?

    I also see that the existing bus lane from Eden Quay onto Rosie Hackett Bridge will still remain in place as before.

    I will guess that buses travelling from Bachelor's Walk will have to use that right hand bus lane to get to the south of the city centre.


  • #8
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

    All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.


  • #9
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,000 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    I take it from that document and drawings that plans for a 2 way cycle route on the north quays have been quietly dumped, given stoneybatter residents opposition.


  • #10
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    slavetothegrind wrote: »
    a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

    All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.

    Shrug, Remember you are the traffic congestion!

    Yes, traffic congestion will get worse, shrug. Get out of your car and get on a bike or take one of the buses which will be speeding along these new bus priority roads.

    The numbers are clear, even today, before these changes, the buses on the quays are carrying 10 times as many people as the cars are. Hell there are even almost as many cyclists as there are cars! And that is without even any decent cycling infrastructure in place.

    It is clear that if you take the cars off these roads and give more space and priority over to the buses and bikes, these roads will carry vastly more people then is possible by car.


  • #11
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,650 ✭✭✭Infini


    Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.


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  • #12
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    slavetothegrind wrote: »
    a half arsed piecemeal plan which will result in traffic chaos worsening in the mornings.

    All of the so called alternate routes are already bumper to bumper.

    You know the solution?? Get the LUAS, Bus or cycle. Remove property cars from the city and it'll thrive


  • #13
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.

    Basically the plan is to ban all cars from the core city center and rightfully so.

    They would probably ban cars completely from the quays if they could, but the car park owners are too powerful, so they are leaving some very limited access to the car parks. However it is clear from this plan, that unless you are heading to a car park, you would be insane to drive into the city and most of the road space will be buses and trams.


  • #14
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,000 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Noticed they wanna reduce it to one lane near wood quay and capel st bridge. That sections a joke as it is its too small to be putting in a bus lane there and make a bad enough bottleneck even worse.

    If it's a bottle neck due to inadequate road space, then the solution is to reduce the space available to least efficient user of that space. i.e. the car.
    Expediting peak hour bus services equals reduced congestion the world over.

    "There isn't room for a bus lane" is an oxymoron. There isn't room for an inefficient car lane.


  • #15
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    you assume everyone is within public transport range.
    Not the case.


  • #16
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    slavetothegrind wrote: »
    you assume everyone is within public transport range.
    Not the case.

    To add to what Deedsie said above very well. Nothing stopping you from parking at one of the many carparks outside the city center, for instance those at Dart stations, Luas stations, etc. and taking public transport the rest of the way in, as would be common in most European cities.


  • #17
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,107 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    slavetothegrind wrote: »
    you assume everyone is within public transport range.
    Not the case.

    Are you assuming the near 10,000 people on buses at peak hours and the likely 10,000+ people per hour at peak on trams crossing the river should be held up by ~600 people in cars?

    Just to be clear on this: no access to any car park, public or private workplace parking is to be blocked. Will some car trips be a bit more inconvenient? They sure will.... if that worth it for stopping total gridlock for buses, trams and cars? It seem to be!


  • #18
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    bk wrote: »
    Basically the plan is to ban all cars from the core city center and rightfully so.

    They would probably ban cars completely from the quays if they could, but the car park owners are too powerful, so they are leaving some very limited access to the car parks. However it is clear from this plan, that unless you are heading to a car park, you would be insane to drive into the city and most of the road space will be buses and trams.

    Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

    At least some of these units could and should be Compulsorily Purchased and converted to Public Transport orientated Interchanges for Bus/Taxi/Cycle and whatever usage.

    However,until we know who their shareholders (and family members) are,the clarity will always be lacking. ;););)

    At the very least,the MSCP's accessed from O Connell St should be reconfigured or closed down immediately,as the City Centre project itself must work outward from the GPO for maximum effect. :D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #19
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    bk wrote: »
    To add to what Deedsie said above very well. Nothing stopping you from parking at one of the many carparks outside the city center, for instance those at Dart stations, Luas stations, etc. and taking public transport the rest of the way in, as would be common in most European cities.

    And the occasional non-European,Irish City too......:eek:

    http://www.translink.co.uk/Services/Other-Translink-Services/Park--Ride/Park--Ride-FAQs/

    4. Who runs the Park & Ride sites?

    All rail based P&R sites are provided by Translink. In addition, Translink provide car parking facilities at some bus stations. All other bus-based P&R sites are provided by DRD Roads Service with Translink providing the formal bus service.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #20
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,199 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed
    the granting of permission for the BT car park has to be one of the worst planning decisions DCC has made (maybe not quite the same as the decision to build on wood quay).

    access to, and exit from, this car park are on ludicrously narrow back streets which should be pedestrianised.


  • #21
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

    How profitable are these car parks? More profitable than using the space for commerce or housing?

    Should the council build a ring of cheaper-to-use multistorey car parks as park-and-ride at the canals?


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  • #22
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,280 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Who the heck can afford to pay for city centre parking on a continuous basis, and also, how high up do you have to be in a company to be allocated a parking space in one of the most expensive cities for property in Ireland?

    So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?


  • #23
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    There's also the question of free parking or €100-a-year parking for certain public servants.


  • #24
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Who the heck can afford to pay for city centre parking on a continuous basis, and also, how high up do you have to be in a company to be allocated a parking space in one of the most expensive cities for property in Ireland?

    So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?

    Mostly free or very cheap parking for civil servants.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Until the nettle of Dublin's Multi-Storey Car Park Operators steely grip on the City is addressed,then all of these grandes-plannes are doomed to failure...again and again and again.

    There are around 6,000 Public Sector parking spaces in the city, many are paid for by the tax payer and are in those private multi story car parks.

    Then you have the €200 annual Parking Levy, which was never implemented....


  • #26
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Discussion about public servants' free parking:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055749367

    Not to mention Pearse Street Garda Station's gulp of road space on the busiest street in the capital:

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Pearse+St,+Dublin/@53.3453523,-6.2546923,127a,20y,270h,38.81t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670e91919cfa79:0x71d0ae3c2b02ffd1!8m2!3d53.3438481!4d-6.2478605?hl=en


  • #27
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ted1 wrote: »
    You know the solution?? Get the LUAS, Bus or cycle. Remove property cars from the city and it'll thrive

    1: What about people who have to do a big shop? Storage facilities on public transport in Dublin are absolute sh!te (essentially non-existent).

    2: Extend public transport. More frequency and longer hours.

    3: Sort out the absolutely ridiculous skyrocketing fares on all forms of public transport.

    Until these issues are addressed, the "put up and shut up" attitude to cars is moronic. There's a reason more people don't take public transport.


  • #28
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    So who's nose is being put out of joint by removing private cars from the core city centre?

    People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).


  • #29
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).

    Heard it all now. Somebody who can't afford a weekly cap of 27.50 on a leap card for Dublin Bus, (or 4:10 to 5.20 for a return trip) but who can afford to drive a car into the city centre, using petrol/diesel and paying for parking. Suuuuuure.


  • #30
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    1: What about people who have to do a big shop? Storage facilities on public transport in Dublin are absolute sh!te (essentially non-existent).

    - Drive to a shopping center like Blanchardstown
    - Order online for delivery, Amazon, Tesco online, etc.
    - Simply carry it on the bus like lots of people already do.

    Seriously how do you think the many people who don't own cars do it?!

    Today, only 19.7% of people who shop in Dublin City Center got there by car. 56% get there by public transport and 21.4% by walking:

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-survey-shows-importance-of-public-transport-passengers-to-dublin-city-centre-retailers/

    Seriously how do you think all those people get their shopping home!
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    There's a reason more people don't take public transport.

    Except most people in Dublin City center for work or shopping DO in fact get their by public transport, walking or cycling as you can see from the above survey and many other similar surveys. In fact the vast majority do.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    People who need to shop, people who can't afford regular public transport fares since the numerous increases over the last number of years, people who want / need to stay out later than 11.30 and people who don't live near a DART or regular bus service (many only run once or twice an hour).

    - Most shoppers already get there by public transport or walking
    - Public transport while not cheap, is still much cheaper then actually owning a car.
    - You get a taxi home or cycle, also nothing stopping you from using one of the car parks that you will still have access to. They are only really blocking through traffic.
    - Most of the city and suburbs is covered by regular bus services. There are very few routes that only run once or twice a day and where they are there also more regular services close by. Also nothing stopping you from driving to your closest DART or Luas station, leaving the car there and getting public transport in the rest of the way as many people do every day.

    BTW I do agree that Dublin Bus should operate 24/7, but that is a conversation for another day.

    But the rest of your points aren't valid as the majority of people who live and work in Dublin City Center already manage to do so without a car.


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  • #31
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Busses will still be backed up. Traffic on the quays will be halted of both sides of the quays every time a Luas wants to cross the Liffey.


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