Public Sector Positions

Doop

I wonder can anyone shed any light on this for me.
I often see public sector jobs in my industry advertised but within the job description the below is always included...

Important Note
Entry will be at the minimum of the scale and the rate of remuneration will not be subject to
negotiation and may be adjusted from time to time in line with Government pay policy.

Does this mean what I think it does that one will always start at the bottom of the scale?

How on earth do they ever hire anyone from outside the public sector, I mean even a couple of years experience would push you well beyond the entry level figure.

€29,376 - €31,729 - €32,317- €35,254 - €38,200 - €41,148 - €44,096 - €45,915 - €47,731 - €49,556 - €51,372 - €53,193 - €55,013 - €56,830 - €58,656 (NMAX) - €60,681 (LSI 1)* - €62,701(LSI 2) **

Calculon1982

Yeah that's it. I took 8k pay cut to join public service 8 years ago. Only back to what I left on then now. 2 degrees, 35 years old and on 29k a year. Not how I imagined my life would go obviously.

Private sector is far more lucrative but public service will give you a decent work life balance.

Doop

Interesting...., in retrospect was it the right move for you?

Lux23

Yep, you always start on the lowest rung of the ladder.

Lux23

Doop wrote: »

Interesting...., in retrospect was it the right move for you?

It definitively wasn't for me, I am nearly 35 too and I am earning less than 30k. I am doing everything I can to get a new job because starting a family or buying a home isn't possible at my current salary level.

Páid

You can always plead your case with the Dept. where you are offered a position.

Lux23

Is that a possibility? How do you go about it?

Calculon1982

Doop wrote: »

Interesting...., in retrospect was it the right move for you?

No not really.

On the plus side the job security helped me get a mortgage.

On the negative I have seen every one of my friends completely outpace me in career and salary. Most of them are on at least 45 to 50k even though I have more qualifications etc.

It has also tied me down. I have always been told how lucky I am to be a public servant so I never brought myself to leave even if something better came up in the private sector.

It doesn't help that I commute 3 hours a day also and the job I left was 20 mins from my house.

But like I said I have been told all my life that getting a public service job is the best thing to do and so I ran with it.

I would not do it again knowing what I know now. Being so broke compared to other professionals that you know is difficult.

Hiw much of a hit would you be taking?

newacc2015

For me the biggest killer with PS jobs is no health insurance. If you interview for any half decent job that requires a college degree ( and a lot without it), health insurance is paid for by your employer. I can't understand why PS don't get health insurance or at least subsidised health insurance. I think the Government would be afraid it is an admission that healthcare is not sufficient with it

The pay on entry level is less than the private sector. But the holidays are really good. I know of one PS organisation where the holidays are 27/28 days per year. A lot of well respected private sector companies give you statutory minimum.

Calculon1982

newacc2015 wrote: »

For me the biggest killer with PS jobs is no health insurance. If you interview for any half decent job that requires a college degree ( and a lot without it), health insurance is paid for by your employer. I can't understand why PS don't get health insurance or at least subsidised health insurance. I think the Government would be afraid it is an admission that healthcare is not sufficient with it

The pay on entry level is less than the private sector. But the holidays are really good. I know of one PS organisation where the holidays are 27/28 days per year. A lot of well respected private sector companies give you statutory minimum.

Wow which organisation is that? I get 23 days a year.

Although we have to take one of those days on the 27th December and then work the remaining days between Christmas and new Year's.

Lux23

At HEO level, I think you get 29 holidays and then you have maybe 12 Flexi days a year as well.

Calculon1982

Lux23 wrote: »

At HEO level, I think you get 29 holidays and then you have maybe 12 Flexi days a year as well.

Yeah 12 flexi days if you can work up the time.

We actually refer to those as the dark arts at work. You can get obsessed with minutes trying to work up any time at all!

With the increase in length of the working day in PS and people being forced to commute further and further to work it's only really feasible for most people to work up a day every 2 - 3 months if at all.

So the vast majority of us end up havin about 4 or 5 flexi days a year.

I don't mean to belittle it as of course it's nice to have but it's certainly not exclusively for the PS anymore. I know a good few private sector companies that do it and even have working from home options which is very rare in my experience of the public sector. They don't trust that stuff at all!

Páid

Lux23 wrote: »

Is that a possibility? How do you go about it?

I know of a person that asked to start a few points up the scale and it was granted. They had a family, mortgage, etc. and showed payslips from the employment they were leaving. I don't know specifics but they didn't start at the very bottom of the scale.

I don't know how likely it is now and I assume DPER would have to sanction it.

You could have a maximum 19 1/2 flexi days. There are 13 flexi periods in a year and you can work up a day and a half (currently) in each.

Calculon1982

Páid wrote: »

I know of a person that asked to start a few points up the scale and it was granted. They had a family, mortgage, etc. and showed payslips from the employment they were leaving. I don't know specifics but they didn't start at the very bottom of the scale.

I don't know how likely it is now and I assume DPER would have to sanction it.

You could have a maximum 19 1/2 flexi days. There are 13 flexi periods in a year and you can work up a day and a half (currently) in each.

They have done away with the day and a half. Maximum 1 day each period now.

Arcade_Tryer

Doop wrote: »

How on earth do they ever hire anyone from outside the public sector, I mean even a couple of years experience would push you well beyond the entry level figure.

Plenty of people with years of experience in the private sector choose to join the civil service and start off on the basic clerical office salary of circa 22k. The civil service is very poorly paid at entry level positions, with the pension, work life balance and salary scale supposed to compensate for it.

fg1406

I'm in the PS myself in a LA but I recall them making a exception when recruiting a finance executive a few years ago, from abroad, by allowing him incremental credit and putting him on the max of the scale purely because no one else applied for the job. The rest of us go in at the bottom and like some of the other posters here, I have 2 degrees and currently doing a masters at night and still don't earn enough to get a mortgage.

Páid

Calculon1982 wrote: »

They have done away with the day and a half. Maximum 1 day each period now.

It was a day for a while but the day and a half came back on a pilot basis in 2015.

http://www.pseu.ie/blog/faqs-flexi-time-pilot-scheme.556.html

doc11

The civil service has 35k staff and only 10k are CO grade meaning there are 25k staff in junior management to senior positions all earning earn 30K plus with pensions. Median earnings are estimated at €28,500 last year for all those at work(including 300000 ps workers). Degrees or not those earning 50k make up a tiny portion of the private sector.

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Yeah that's it. I took 8k pay cut to join public service 8 years ago. Only back to what I left on then now. 2 degrees, 35 years old and on 29k a year. Not how I imagined my life would go obviously.

Private sector is far more lucrative but public service will give you a decent work life balance.

how are you only on 29K a year as a pre recession recruit, a CO would have started on near 25k plus an allowance for degree taking you to 27k on the scale.

doc11

fg1406 wrote: »

I'm in the PS myself in a LA but I recall them making a exception when recruiting a finance executive a few years ago, from abroad, by allowing him incremental credit and putting him on the max of the scale purely because no one else applied for the job. The rest of us go in at the bottom and like some of the other posters here, I have 2 degrees and currently doing a masters at night and still don't earn enough to get a mortgage.

Did the LA fund your degree? not being smart I know the civil service will fund education I'm just not so sure about the public sector as a whole.Just for interest

Calculon1982

doc11 wrote: »

how are you only on 29K a year pre recession recruit, a CO would have started on near 25k plus an allowance for degree taking you to 27k on the scale.

I'm a public servant not civil servant. The OP asked about a public service role.

There was no allowance offered to myself for having a degree. I started as an AA which is similar to CO in civil service. Can't quite remember starting salary but think it was about 22k but could be wrong. I took some time out during recession so missed a few increments. Like I said that's the trade off - poor money for better work life balance. If you need time out you can do it.

Do you happen to have a link to the PS payscale like the one you linked to above. I'd actually like to see how far along I am.

Cheers.

Calculon1982

Páid wrote: »

It was a day for a while but the day and a half came back on a pilot basis in 2015.

http://www.pseu.ie/blog/faqs-flexi-time-pilot-scheme.556.html

Sorry I'm with the impact union and we havnt got that back yet. Still just a day for us.

Nice to know it could change though. Cheers for the post.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Calculon1982 wrote: »

I'm a public servant not civil servant. The OP asked about a public service role.

There was no allowance offered to myself for having a degree. I started as an AA which is similar to CO in civil service. Can't quite remember starting salary but think it was about 22k but could be wrong. I took some time out during recession so missed a few increments. Like I said that's the trade off - poor money for better work life balance. If you need time out you can do it.

Do you happen to have a link to the PS payscale like the one you linked to above. I'd actually like to see how far along I am.

Cheers.

Think that's part of the whole problem. Is the difference s between civil and public. I'm public and know of receptionists at gr4 level earning 40k . In my case I'm top of my scale meaning if I got a civil service job 2 grades higher making me a senior manager , I'd have to take a pay cut as I'd start at the bottom of the scale.
On the plus side hols are good and hours are good , although no flexi in my area of the PS.

Is the saying true that it's a job for life?
I'm really happy where I am now, but there is always the unexpected future

uck51js9zml2yt

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Plenty of people with years of experience in the private sector choose to join the civil service and start off on the basic clerical office salary of circa 22k. The civil service is very poorly paid at entry level positions, with the pension, work life balance and salary scale supposed to compensate for it.

I left the private sector for the public last year.
Took a massive pay cut but work life balance is better, no stress. 22 days holidays 1 1/2 flexi every 4 weeks. Solid pension and security.
I wonder about it but so far I'm happy to stay where I am. The only downside is not using my degree and being put where needs arise rather than skillset.

Doop

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Hiw much of a hit would you be taking?

About 10k, I'm early 30's went back to college in the recession, I'm only 2.5yrs into new career and to be fair have had decent salary increases year on year, I don't think I'd consider public sector at bottom of pay scale, I reckon within 3/ 5 years I'll hit 50k easy so don't think it's really an option, can't see how they recruit good talent with starting at the bottom of pay scale, surely they mostly get college graduates with that rule.

Anyway that answered my question.. Thanks. Hope ye all get up that scale!

doc11

Outside Dublin and outside the civil service there's very few grads pulling 40-50k after a few years.

fg1406

doc11 wrote: »

Did the LA fund your degree? not being smart I know the civil service will fund education I'm just not so sure about the public sector as a whole.Just for interest

Nope. I did a BEng degree after school. Worked in Dublin but hated the industry. Took a CO job back down the country as I wanted to get out of Dublin. Did a standard business degree at night (paid for by myself). Doing MBA now. Again self funding. Work won't pay unless it's directly related to my job. Even at that I don't know anyone in public sector who has gotten third level funding in recent years other than nurses.

FloatingVoter

fg1406 wrote: »

Nope. I did a BEng degree after school. Worked in Dublin but hated the industry. Took a CO job back down the country as I wanted to get out of Dublin. Did a standard business degree at night (paid for by myself). Doing MBA now. Again self funding. Work won't pay unless it's directly related to my job. Even at that I don't know anyone in public sector who has gotten third level funding in recent years other than nurses.

They've funded Information Systems evening course diplomas and degrees in TCD (physical attendance). Shorthand - IT work. Fact. Been on it.
They are IT obsessed. When this whole STEM nuisance is seen for the fad it is, perhaps literacy and intelligence will return to culture in general. I'm aware you're an E in STEM. If you made them aware you're able to use the interwhatsit technology thingy ?

tobsey

I joined PS just over a year ago at point 5 of a 7 point scale. It's not civil service though. I had 8 years experience in IT and they matched my take home pay. It helped that they were struggling to recruit experienced people into that grade. They wouldn't have had a hope if they were only offering the first point.

fg1406

FloatingVoter wrote: »

They've funded Information Systems evening course diplomas and degrees in TCD (physical attendance). Shorthand - IT work. Fact. Been on it.
They are IT obsessed. When this whole STEM nuisance is seen for the fad it is, perhaps literacy and intelligence will return to culture in general. I'm aware you're an E in STEM. If you made them aware you're able to use the interwhatsit technology thingy ?

I don't doubt for a second they have funded other people's education but where I work I was told they have no budget for third level education and I do know people in the HSE who have had their nurse training (post grad) paid for. Where I am though admin employees aren't seen as being a worthwhile investment. I work in finance section and although I'm highly educated I am doing a job way below my capabilities but in the public sector, you stay in your job and rot until someone above you retires or dies.

doc11

fg1406 wrote: »

I don't doubt for a second they have funded other people's education but where I work I was told they have no budget for third level education and I do know people in the HSE who have had their nurse training (post grad) paid for. Where I am though admin employees aren't seen as being a worthwhile investment. I work in finance section and although I'm highly educated I am doing a job way below my capabilities but in the public sector, you stay in your job and rot until someone above you retires or dies.

Or get a job at the private sector that you think you deserve

fg1406

doc11 wrote: »

Or get a job at the private sector that you think you deserve

Believe me I'm trying. I've done 2 interviews in the past 3 months but there are limited opportunities in the catchment area where I live, without returning to Dublin which isn't something I can afford to do either financially or for my mental health.
But anyway this isn't about me. It's about the OP. By all means go into the PS but don't expect recognition or reward for your talents and work ethic. You'll get paid the same as someone who does f--- all. Sure you'll get better sick leave etc than in the private sector but don't expect job satisfaction or that a career path will be laid out for you.

Dodge

Sounds like you think you're better than the public service but can't get a job outside the public service. That's not a recipe for happiness

And you should do whatever makes you happy mate

(also LOL @ the earlier suggestion that public service workers should get health care are included. Can only imagine how many angry Indo articles there'd be about that )

Doop

tobsey wrote: »

I joined PS just over a year ago at point 5 of a 7 point scale. It's not civil service though. I had 8 years experience in IT and they matched my take home pay. It helped that they were struggling to recruit experienced people into that grade. They wouldn't have had a hope if they were only offering the first point.

Excuse the ignorance but whats the difference between Public Service / Civil service?

tobsey

Doop wrote: »

Excuse the ignorance but whats the difference between Public Service / Civil service?

Public service would include Gardai, Teachers, Health staff, firefighters, council workers and other offices of the state. The Civil Service is the staff of the government departments, e.g. Social Welfare, Revenue Commissioners (I think), Department of Justice, Department of Environment and so on.

psnKOB79LFC

Calculon1982 wrote: »

Yeah that's it. I took 8k pay cut to join public service 8 years ago. Only back to what I left on then now. 2 degrees, 35 years old and on 29k a year. Not how I imagined my life would go obviously.

Private sector is far more lucrative but public service will give you a decent work life balance.

I took a 24k pay cut to join public sector...8k is nothing in comparison. It was even worth it at 24k, far better long term.

yenom

Calculon1982 wrote: »

They have done away with the day and a half. Maximum 1 day each period now.

Not true. The day and a half is back again.

Calculon1982

yenom wrote: »

Not true. The day and a half is back again.

I was not aware that it had been introduced for some departments. My department still operates a single day per period set up.

drake70

Calculon1982 wrote: »

I was not aware that it had been introduced for some departments. My department still operates a single day per period set up.

It was re-introduced as a pilot scheme in November 2015.

http://www.pseu.ie/_fileupload/circulars2015/Flexible%20Working%20Hours%20Circular_%20(3).pdf

amtc

I had a public sector job and negotiated my salary and conditions off scale. It can be done. They created an assistant principal special scale.

amtc

I had a public sector job and negotiated my salary and conditions off scale. It can be done. They created an assistant principal special scale.

alig123aileen

a friends of mine was a civil servant with 30 years plus service in the same department as a 'clerical officer'. There were contractual issues with her contract due to secondment and they 'retired' her at 52 yrs old offering her a lump sum/annuity totalling in excess of €200,000. She took it then went to a recruitment agency and got into another civil service department job as a 'temporary' clerical officer and was made permanent nine months later and got her pay scale honoured from her previous role when she asked. That means she got 10k more a year than if somebody from private employment walked into that job. Had I walked into that job (im in private employment) I would have gone in at 21k as a new person. she got 33k to do the same job. Now I know what my USC is paying for! Fair play to her but it seems unfair on others. Isnt anyone in HR in the civil service looking at staff budgets?

martingriff

alig123aileen wrote: »

a friends of mine was a civil servant with 30 years plus service in the same department as a 'clerical officer'. There were contractual issues with her contract due to secondment and they 'retired' her at 52 yrs old offering her a lump sum/annuity totalling in excess of €200,000. She took it then went to a recruitment agency and got into another civil service department job as a 'temporary' clerical officer and was made permanent nine months later and got her pay scale honoured from her previous role when she asked. That means she got 10k more a year than if somebody from private employment walked into that job. Had I walked into that job (im in private employment) I would have gone in at 21k as a new person. she got 33k to do the same job. Now I know what my USC is paying for! Fair play to her but it seems unfair on others. Isnt anyone in HR in the civil service looking at staff budgets?

That happens a lot if people all ready have years in the civil service as it's all 1 sector.

Dodge

alig123aileen wrote: »

Isnt anyone in HR in the civil service looking at staff budgets?

That's all they look at. Most HR functions are with peoplepoint now

CS wages are controlled by regulations. They're not flexible.

Your friend was on the correct point of the scale for her. She wasn't been done a favour

There is flexibility in the wider public service but for general service grades in the civil service, your salary is pre determined

beauf

alig123aileen wrote: »

...went to a recruitment agency and got into another civil service department job as a 'temporary' clerical officer and was made permanent nine months later and got her pay scale honoured from her previous role when she asked. ...

She got a job as a new person, (well with 30yrs experience) then negotiated a better salary.

I think you are reading more into it.

Kristopherus

beauf wrote: »

She got a job as a new person, (well with 30yrs experience) then negotiated a better salary.

I think you are reading more into it.

She'll now be under the new pension regulation and her salary will be averaged for pension purposes. If she's getting a pension from her last CS job, the payment of that will stop. Also I'd like to see how she gleaned €200K of a lump sum out of her employer.