Are we really back to this sh*t again?

Grandeeod

I read this story this morning and it saddened me to a great degree on many levels.

The price range of the houses. What people were prepared to do in order to buy one. The image of one described female buyer "skipping" out of the house after closing the deal. I've been there, seen that, bought the T-Shirt and then lost my bollix like lots of others.

This headfirst Irish compulsion to buy property/land as if its some sort of security is bonkers. I'd love to say that renting is good and the future, but because of the aforementioned compulsion, renting is now at the mercy of the same mindset of those that want to buy, either to rent or live in it. No difference - its money/security driven in some capacity. If you can't buy, you are fooked in terms of afforadble and steady rental accomodation.

I don't wish for another crash, but I would shed no tears if it happened. How have we gone from a nation that invested in social housing to a nation that sold off social housing, created ghetto's and stigmas and encourgaged society to own a home at any cost in a private build?

Glenster

Elessar wrote: »

Queuing for days for the privilege of handing over between four hundred and fifty thousand and six hundred and sixty five thousand euro for a house.

its people who've not saved up their whole deposit yet. Id take a day off work if i thought it would save me 20K.

Samuel T. Cogley

Glenster wrote: »

its people who've not saved up their whole deposit yet. Id take a day off work if i thought it would save me 20K.

I think the point is you're not saving anything, just spending silly, silly money.

myshirt

How many multiples of the average industrial wage are these houses costing?

darkpagandeath

Yourself isit wrote: »

We are not talking about 14 years ago. I'm clearly blaming the banks then but the guy I'm replying to was talking about people hiding credit union loans now.


Well not when I bought in 2015 they weren't. The banks knew my entire financial history across two countries. It would have been impossible to hide a loan or repayments

This is it they seemed not to look or care. 20K materialising in my account for a loan at home would sound alarm bells and there are the same procedures here past and present.

Spanish Eyes

TimeToShine wrote: »

I agree with you in that if you are a homebird with absolutely no intention whatsoever of ever living outside of Ireland then you should buy as soon as you are able - regardless of cost. Note that this applies to fewer people than you'd think - people change and I would class married teachers and gardai amongst the few who fall into this category. People who have effectively had their path beaten out for them by the generations above who have little to no chance of a career/life outside of Ireland. In that case fire away - you'll never solidify your losses if the bubble pops and it prevents exactly the scenario you describe.

Yes, getting a mortgage can tie you down. Especially if you want to move away, then you have all the sh1t attached to being a so called "accidental" landlord in order to live elsewhere, but keep your house at home.

But essentially, unless you decide to live out your pensionable age in a country that has copperfastened tenancy rights, you may as well kiss this country goodbye if you are a renter. That is a fact.

Imagine reaching 67 years of age and moving from house to house, apartment to apartment because the landlord says s/he needs to sell or keep it for a family member. Three months, and your'e gone.

Not a nice way in this country anyway to enjoy your retirement. That's why people want the security of tenure of their own home here I think anyway.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Berserker wrote: »

They tried to move people away from Dublin in some of the public sector organisations and it was a complete disaster. Do you not remember that? People want to live and work in the major cities, Dublin in particular.

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

Samuel T. Cogley

What I don't get with all this moving away stuff is why do it? It's not the norm in England, Ireland it seems that everyone does it.

If it's for a piss up, fair enough don't moan when you can't buy a house outside the 'ghetto AF' areas. If it's because of lack of opportunity in Ireland and there's opportunity in the US/UK what ever for a time, save some money. It's not really that hard is it?

That's not to say I don't believe house prices in Dublin outside of a few areas aren't complete madness.

PhoenixParker

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

They might, but then their husband or wife needs a job there too . . .

and they'll both want a few other companies hiring people with similar skillsets so that there are options if something goes wrong at their company. . .

and if either of them have family abroad they'll want to be handy for an airport.

All of which results in big urban centres and depopulated rural areas. It's tough enough to find two jobs a reasonable commute from a suburb of Dublin, I don't want to be trying the same thing in Mullingar and then one of us suffers a job loss and we've to try to move the whole family. I'll stick with Dublin.

From an employers point of view they want to have a ready pool of talent to hire from and the simplest way to do that is to set up shop beside a competitor or better yet a cluster of competitors. They'll be sticking with Dublin too.

darkpagandeath

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

What I don't get with all this moving away stuff is why do it? It's not the norm in England, Ireland it seems that everyone does it.

If it's for a piss up, fair enough don't moan when you can't buy a house outside the 'ghetto AF' areas. If it's because of lack of opportunity in Ireland and there's opportunity in the US/UK what ever for a time, save some money. It's not really that hard is it?

That's not to say I don't believe house prices in Dublin outside of a few areas aren't complete madness.

Dublin has many issues, City centre keeping it flat is madness. People love the power station stacks for example but moan about tall buildings in the CC. Low density housing is an issue especially when it's small.

Glenster

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I think the point is you're not saving anything, just spending silly, silly money.

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Glenster

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

Not true. it took Coillte 20 years to move down to wicklow because of the unions agitating on behalf of the admin staff in Dublin. And that was within commuting distance.

Samuel T. Cogley

Glenster wrote: »

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Point in bold is where the issues lie.

I sell sofas (I don't but say I do). The sofa is worth €10,000 because the fashion is to have a Japanese girl pee on it and I've sold 20 sofas at €10,000.

Are you better off with my Japanese pee sofa or a something from Harvey Norman?

darkpagandeath

Glenster wrote: »

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Problem is my experience in Ireland is no one wants to save. I have asked in the past the same that are now stuck in houses in negative equity. How will you afford the house. Answer is a loan, no talk of having 150k in the bank for example.

SueDub

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

NIMAN

Grandeeod wrote: »

How have we gone from a nation that invested in social housing to a nation that sold off social housing, created ghetto's and stigmas and encourgaged society to own a home at any cost in a private build?

Probably just copied the British.....thats what they did too. We tend to follow their lead.

SueDub

I don't think it's that we don't want to save, but that we can't actually save as there is feck all to save. I would much rather my rent be going into a bank account towards a dream house but then what to I infringe my family on another family who are also or may have already paid their dues.. It's never easy and never fair.

SueDub

NIMAN wrote: »

Probably just copied the British.....thats what they did too. We tend to follow their lead.

Yet the British still think we are the ones who are behind.

darkpagandeath

SueDub wrote: »

Yet the British still think we are the ones who are behind.

Odd I know plenty of British here, Ireland's Government is the only one I hear banging on about paddy this and that. Especially FG.

Samuel T. Cogley

On the Brits - not sure about England but when I bought in Edinburgh, oh so many years ago, the valuer came out looked round the apartment and said, 'yeah this isn't worth the asking - it's worth X' we'll loan X-20% or whatever.

When I bought here and asked if it was the same the valuer said, and I **** you not.

"What are you willing to pay?" I said 'Y' he said right well then 'Y' is the market value because you're prepared to pay it.

Glenster

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Point in bold is where the issues lie.

I sell sofas (I don't but say I do). The sofa is worth €10,000 because the fashion is to have a Japanese girl pee on it and I've sold 20 sofas at €10,000.

Are you better off with my Japanese pee sofa or a something from Harvey Norman?

Comparison doesn't really make sense as there are no cheaper houses for sale in portmarnock.

Its basically two identical sofas, but you can have one today and you have to save for a year until you can sit down on the other one.

Glenster

SueDub wrote: »

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

Jesus, is tallaght not the outskirts?

Do you want them to build it on Inis Mor? The Moon? Narnia?

Glenster

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Problem is my experience in Ireland is no one wants to save. I have asked in the past the same that are now stuck in houses in negative equity. How will you afford the house. Answer is a loan, no talk of having 150k in the bank for example.

In a way its irresponsible of them not to have 150K in the bank.

All they'd have to save is 15K a year for ten years, then the problem would be solved.

PhoenixParker

SueDub wrote: »

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

No.
Amazon want to be able to hire.
The roles they fill need talent from across Europe. They can persuade them to move to Dublin because if it doesn't work out there are other companies hiring so it's not a disaster for the new employee. People moving also know that their partner has a good chance of getting a job in Dublin too or if they're single that there's a decent social scene and dating pool.

Amazon & co want Dublin.

Spanish Eyes

Many people are snobs when it comes to buying in certain areas of Dublin and perhaps other areas around the cities.

Why is that? I think I know the answer. Anti social and immigrant population. The two are not the same of course, but in some eyes they are. Has to be said.

Still, no one knows who is going to move in next door whether owned or rented, do they?

Glenster

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Many people are snobs when it comes to buying in certain areas of Dublin and perhaps other areas around the cities.

Why is that? I think I know the answer. Anti social and immigrant population. The two are not the same of course, but in some eyes they are. Has to be said.

Still, no one knows who is going to move in next door whether owned or rented, do they?

True but at least in donnybrook they'll probably have jobs and shame, all bets are off in blanchardstown.

SueDub

Glenster wrote:

Jesus, is tallaght not the outskirts?

Glenster wrote:

Do you want them to build it on Inis Mor? The Moon? Narnia?

PhoenixParker wrote:

Amazon & co want Dublin.

Amazon & Co want Ireland...

Glenster

SueDub wrote: »

Amazon & Co want Ireland...

we're not talking customer phone service or sweeping up a data centre, we're talking real jobs and for those Amazon and Co want Dublin.

SueDub

Glenster wrote:

we're not talking customer phone service or sweeping up a data centre, we're talking real jobs and for those Amazon and Co want Dublin.

Oh I thought we were talking about the up and coming housing boom

Yourself isit

Glenster wrote: »

True but at least in donnybrook they'll probably have jobs and shame, all bets are off in blanchardstown.

Blanchardstown is pretty middle class ( well in the modern sense of not having a pot to piss in after paying the mortgage, but most people work)