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Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

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    #32
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    donkeykong5 wrote:
    It's quiet possible it will just be you and your godchild at the altar. Just remember it's her day. She has been looking forward to it for ages. You should be honoured that of all family members you have been chosen by her. Keep the I was a Catholic but now I am an atheist talk for another day.


    Not the case for communion.


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    #33
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Mod:
    realdanbreen wrote: »
    At the risk of upsetting the mod,
    FYI - so long as you adhere to the forum charter, your contributions will be valued and the moderator team will have no wish, and certainly no need, to sanction you. If, however, you post casual insults towards your fellow posters, you will be banned from the forum.

    I hope the rules are clear.

    - robin.


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    #34
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Of course, it's a Catholic sacrament after all and given the ops loathing of the church surely it would be complete hypocracy to attend.

    Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.


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    #35
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    smacl wrote: »
    Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.

    But this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It is about the predicament that the op finds himself in . Does his loathing(his word) of the church not make it impossible for him to attend a catholic sacrament?
    Or maybe his loathing is only a sentiment that he expresses when it's safe to do so.


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    #36
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    smacl wrote: »
    Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.

    But of course this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It's about the ops(where has he gone btw) loathing(his word) of the church and how it would be almost unbearable for him to bless himself. I cannot see how he could attend a catholic sacrament given his sentiments. In fact I fail to see why he would even feel the need to seek advice on the matter unless of course his loathing only comes into play now and again.


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    #37
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    But this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It is about the predicament that the op finds himself in . Does his loathing(his word) of the church not make it impossible for him to attend a catholic sacrament?
    Or maybe his loathing is only a sentiment that he expresses when it's safe to do so.

    I 'loath' the church and everything that it stands for. I hate it and I also hate organised religion. It did not stop me from entering a church though. I think that the majority or religious people are hypocrites and that they do not believe the teachings of the church.
    I am a proud atheist but I do not feel the need to discuss it with people and for example if an old person says something like God bless you I just thank them and smile cause I think it is cute.
    I think that the op should not worry so much and should spoil his goddaughter and buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.


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    #38
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    AryaStark wrote: »
    I 'loath' the church and everything that it stands for. I hate it and I also hate organised religion. It did not stop me from entering a church though. I think that the majority or religious people are hypocrites and that they do not believe the teachings of the church.
    I am a proud atheist but I do not feel the need to discuss it with people and for example if an old person says something like God bless you I just thank them and smile cause I think it is cute.
    I think that the op should not worry so much and should spoil his goddaughter and buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.


    But the fact that you think that ' the majority of religios people are hypocrites' would not make it less hypocrytical for you to attend a catholic sacrament given that you loath and hate the church.


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    #39
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    But the fact that you think that ' the majority of religios people are hypocrites' would not make it less hypocrytical for you to attend a catholic sacrament given that you loath and hate the church.

    I think you've made that same point about 6 times now. We get that's your opinion on the matter. Repeating it over and over is not going to change anyone's mind.


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    #40
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    But of course this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It's about the ops(where has he gone btw) loathing(his word) of the church and how it would be almost unbearable for him to bless himself. I cannot see how he could attend a catholic sacrament given his sentiments. In fact I fail to see why he would even feel the need to seek advice on the matter unless of course his loathing only comes into play now and again.

    Loathsome as these things are (I tend to agree with the OPs sentiments on this one) sometime you've just got to suck it up and take one for the team. We do these things for the ones we love, be it family or friends, simple as that. The OPs question really relates to what is expected of him, where the only expectations that count in this scenario are those of his family and most importantly, his niece.


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    #41
    tuisginideach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭tuisginideach


    AryaStark wrote: »
    buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.


    A major generalisation ...


    In my children's 1st Communion days, only the parents were invited to sit with the child in the seat - siblings, aunties, uncles, cousins, grandparents, godparents and all the other hangers on had to sit further back down the church (if they wished to be there for the ceremony). So the First Communicant probably won't even know whether the godfather is there or not - I think he may have rather an inflated opinion of his own importance!


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    #42
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    smacl wrote: »
    Loathsome as these things are (I tend to agree with the OPs sentiments on this one) sometime you've just got to suck it up and take one for the team. We do these things for the ones we love, be it family or friends, simple as that. The OPs question really relates to what is expected of him, where the only expectations that count in this scenario are those of his family and most importantly, his niece.


    My take on this is that there appear to be degrees of loathsome going on here. Offhand I cannot think of anyone or anything that I find loathsome or that I hate but lets take the KKK or the National front. I dislike these organisations and would not be caught dead at one of their meetings and would never consider 'sucking it up' or 'taking it for the team' in order to attend.


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    #43
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    pilly wrote: »
    I think you've made that same point about 6 times now. We get that's your opinion on the matter. Repeating it over and over is not going to change anyone's mind.

    Believe me I have no interest in changing anyones mind, the post was by way of response to an earlier post.


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    #44
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    I am an atheist but was godfather to my niece last month, they told me there was much religion related stuff involving me...Well I was misinformed, they expected me to accept God created the earth, just sat there in silence refused to answer the yes I was supposed to


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    #45
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i was godfather to my niece and didn't have to do anything at her communion, and she's picked my sister as her sponsor for her confirmation. result.

    Thanks for the info. So your sister will be the 'godfather' for your nieces confirmation?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #46
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    There's a huge religious element to being a godparent in a Catholic baptism. How did you handle that aspect? I'm asking out of genuine interest as I suspect I'll shortly be in the position of having to say no to being a godparent for this very reason.

    There was very little to it. Back then I was a typical 'catholic' -- only ever entered a church on special occasions. Was more neutral then.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #47
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.


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    #48
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    My take on this is that there appear to be degrees of loathsome going on here. Offhand I cannot think of anyone or anything that I find loathsome or that I hate but lets take the KKK or the National front. I dislike these organisations and would not be caught dead at one of their meetings and would never consider 'sucking it up' or 'taking it for the team' in order to attend.

    But my brother has not married a member of the KKK and if he did I would disown him! Religion is still very mainstream and to be involved in my nephews lives I have to accept that they will be raised believing in God and believing that Godparents are special.
    When they are teenagers I will explain all about atheism and that I am one. For now me sucking it up and going along with what they believe does not compromise me or them.


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    #49
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    Worztron wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. So your sister will be the 'godfather' for your nieces confirmation?

    Godparents are chosen when a baby is being christened.

    At the confirmation the child chooses a sponsor... this does not have to be the godparents.


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    #50
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.

    Would you have the same view of Nazi's, KKK, harmam Boco. They are all organisations who do and have done horrible acts the same as the Roman Catholic church.


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    #51
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.

    'chip on my shoulder' -- that's some ignorant statement from you right there.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #52
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Worztron wrote: »
    'chip on my shoulder' -- that's some ignorant statement from you right there.

    Well you said you loathe religion, so much so that you're considering snubbing your own godchild. If that's not carrying a chip on your shoulder I don't know what is.


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    #53
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    AryaStark wrote: »
    Godparents are chosen when a baby is being christened.

    At the confirmation the child chooses a sponsor... this does not have to be the godparents.

    I see, thanks. So a godparent could also be the sponsor? If someone else is the sponsor -- can he/she go in place of the godparent on the day of the communion/confirmation?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #54
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    My take on this is that there appear to be degrees of loathsome going on here. Offhand I cannot think of anyone or anything that I find loathsome or that I hate but lets take the KKK or the National front. I dislike these organisations and would not be caught dead at one of their meetings and would never consider 'sucking it up' or 'taking it for the team' in order to attend.

    Its a fair point and there are no doubt degrees of loathsome at play, where at some point you draw the line as to what you'll do for friends and family versus refusing to do so on principal. Where this line lies is going to be very dependent on circumstance. Say you had a friend, brother or sister go off a join the Scientologists or other whacko cult for example and subsequently get married. Would you attend the event if it was in their church? Would you take part in the ceremony?


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    #55
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    Well you said you loathe religion, so much so that you're considering snubbing your own godchild. If that's not carrying a chip on your shoulder I don't know what is.

    Yes, I do loathe religion and for good reason. It's nothing but a sham and I have a major problem with my participation in the further brainwashing of my niece. It's not about snubbing my niece -- stop being ridiculous.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #56
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    @realdanbreen

    You got totally bent out of shape because I was being honest when I said I loathed religion. Cease with your trolling of this thread -- or do you want more infractions from the mods?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #57
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    Worztron wrote: »
    Yes, I do loathe religion and for good reason. It's nothing but a sham and I have a major problem with my participation in the further brainwashing of my niece. It's not about snubbing my niece -- stop being ridiculous.

    I don't know how it's not illegal to tie a child to a religion for like, once your Baptist the church counts you as one of theirs


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    #58
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Worztron wrote: »
    I see, thanks. So a godparent could also be the sponsor? If someone else is the sponsor -- can he/she go in place of the godparent on the day of the communion/confirmation?

    Yes, the sponsor is the only other person apart from Mum and Dad who need to be there on the confirmation day.

    Communion is different, there's no sponsor role. No adult has to do anything during the communion ceremony unless they've volunteered to do a reading, carry gifts or whatever.


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    #59
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »
    I don't know how it's not illegal to tie a child to a religion for like, once your Baptist the church counts you as one of theirs

    Yep, it's sickening alright. The poor kids never get a choice. They just have a religion forced upon them from birth. If kids can be fooled to believe in the easter bunny, santa, the tooth fairy, etc. then they can certainly be duped into buying into the magic space baby story. They have not yet reached the age of reason unfortunately.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #60
    Hrududu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    Worztron wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. So your sister will be the 'godfather' for your nieces confirmation?

    Godparents have nothing to do with confirmation. The child picks a sponsor for their confirmation. I'm sure they can pick a god parent to do it but in all the confirmations I've attended that's never happened. It's always someone else


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    #61
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    Worztron wrote: »
    I see, thanks. So a godparent could also be the sponsor? If someone else is the sponsor -- can he/she go in place of the godparent on the day of the communion/confirmation?

    Yes that is right. You don't have to go to the church anymore! The only time I have been inside a church while there is a ceremony going on in the last 20 years is at the christening where i was godmother. I don't go to funerals or weddings or any kind of mass.

    Another of my nephews made his communion this year and I went to the church but waited outside... it was a lovely day and I kept the two youngest kids outside with me.

    I never go into churches any more and nobody minds. At my brothers wedding I waited outside so that I could be in the photos!

    As a godparent at the communion/confirmation the only thing expected s that you make a fuss of the child. You do not need to be in the church.


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