Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

Worztron

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

magicbastarder

i was godfather to my niece and didn't have to do anything at her communion, and she's picked my sister as her sponsor for her confirmation. result.

tuisginideach

You don't have to do anything. You don't even need to be there. You may not even be invited to be there. Give the child a gift. You need not play any role in the religious parts but don't rain in her parade by telling her you loathe religion.

beechwood55

You are on the baptismal register as her godfather and that cannot be undone.
Simply tell her parents that you are now an atheist and would prefer not to have to attend her First Holy Communion Mass.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'm a Godfather to my niece and Nephew. If they ever ask I'm going to have an open and frank discussion about all the various aspects of religion (as best I can) including atheism, theism and agnosticism and explain that it's up to them to make their own decision as long as they don't force it on anyone else.

December2012

I have two godchildren, both of who I was invited and honoured to be asked to be their godparent when their parents knew that I am no longer in any way religious.

I believe that my job as godparent is to be an adult friend to the child, to be another person who makes them feel special, to guide them on their moral compass as they get older, if appropriate.

If my godchildren were having a communion or confirmation I will show up, tell them they are awesome, and help them enjoy their day. And that's it.

Unless the family are requesting you to be religious there really is no need to make a big deal out of it,

Dial Hard

December2012 wrote:

I have two godchildren, both of who I was invited and honoured to be asked to be their godparent when their parents knew that I am no longer in any way religious.

Unless the family are requesting you to be religious there really is no need to make a big deal out of it,

There's a huge religious element to being a godparent in a Catholic baptism. How did you handle that aspect? I'm asking out of genuine interest as I suspect I'll shortly be in the position of having to say no to being a godparent for this very reason.

magicbastarder

as mentioned, i'm a godfather, and was told by my brother to 'just stand there and say nothing'. and that was the extent of my participation in the ceremony.

magicbastarder

beechwood55 wrote: »

Simply tell her parents that you are now an atheist and would prefer not to have to attend her First Holy Communion Mass.

or else just go, because she would want you there.

December2012

Dial Hard wrote: »

There's a huge religious element to being a godparent in a Catholic baptism. How did you handle that aspect? I'm asking out of genuine interest as I suspect I'll shortly be in the position of having to say no to being a godparent for this very reason.

You're right and in the strict sense, there is. This is why I was delighted to be asked, but did flag it to the families in question that I was not a religious person.

In those families, they did not want an additional person to provide religious instruction, or religious guidance. They felt that was their job, and that the role of godparent was more of a positive role model generally. I suppose traditionally lots of people used their religion as their moral compass. Thats not the case now, and Im guided by many principles, but mainly I am just a cracking person!

recedite

magicbastarder wrote: »

as mentioned, i'm a godfather, and was told by my brother to 'just stand there and say nothing'. and that was the extent of my participation in the ceremony.

I wonder is this a special instruction reserved for atheist godfathers, or is it for all godfathers?

realdanbreen

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You 'loathe' religion and blessing yourself and you're an atheist and yet you still need advice on what to do? It might be best to stay away as I don't think JUVENILE INSULT DELETED

recedite

realdanbreen wrote: »

You 'loathe' religion and blessing yourself and you're an atheist and yet you still need advice on what to do?

OP is probably not very experienced in the actual procedures expected to be followed on the day. Quite naturally.

robindch

Mod:

realdanbreen wrote: »

It might be best to stay away as I don't think JUVENILE INSULT DELETED

Shorn of its final juvenile insult, the first part of what you posted seems oddly appropriate. Anyhow, you've been red-carded for fist-waving.

Please read the forum charter before posting again in A+A.

Pawwed Rig

Just go and have a nice day with the child. You do not have to participate.

J C

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Just go and have a nice day with the child. You do not have to participate.

I agree ... what surprises me is all the 'hand-wringing' going on by the OP about 'will I /won't I attend'?

... a key part of tolerance (and indeed basic manners) is to attend events in other people's lives to which one is invited in a respectful and dignified manner.

There is a time and a place for debating peoples worldviews ... but 'red letter' days to which one is invited, is neither the time nor the place.

... and that also applies to Christians attending Humanist events, to which they are invited.

Hotblack Desiato

December2012 wrote: »

I believe that my job as godparent is to be an adult friend to the child, to be another person who makes them feel special, to guide them on their moral compass as they get older, if appropriate.

I don't get this fuss at all. I was born in the early 70s, my godmother was my mother's sister. I don't even remember who my godfather was, but it would have been another blood relative.

Nothing whatsoever ever happened because of this so-called godparent relationship, even though my mother's family were all devout catholics. It was a big nothing at all. There's absolutely no reason to think that anyone takes it more seriously today than they did 40 years ago.

magicbastarder wrote: »

as mentioned, i'm a godfather, and was told by my brother to 'just stand there and say nothing'. and that was the extent of my participation in the ceremony.

You have to make an oath and promise to do religious stuff. Some people have a problem with lying in public.

magicbastarder

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You have to make an oath and promise to do religious stuff. Some people have a problem with lying in public.

that's what surprised me. i didn't have to open my mouth. maybe it was an arrangement between my brother and the priest.

it was kinda funny though, the priest was distracted and clearly annoyed as the kid being baptised just before my niece, was about 8 and had put gel in his hair. his parents clearly had not thought through the baptism process.

smacl

Worztron wrote: »

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Maybe talk to your niece's parents and see what their take on the situation is. While I take J C's point that you don't want to rain on here parade, attending an event that you consider a loathsome sham bearing a false smile might be no better than not attending. Perhaps taking her for a day out after the event might make for a more pleasant and honest experience for you both. Of course many kids are only into these ceremonies for the money themselves, so if she's of that frame of mind, show up as a fellow cynic and congratulate her on her takings after the formalities have concluded

_Brian

I think it's a sad day when an adult can't put their own feelings to the back of their mind and be involved in a child's big day, particularly when her parents chose you to be a bit more involved in her life than everyone else they know.

I'm not saying you have to be the biggest Christian there on the day but just pass yourself in a dignified manner and be there for your niece, this is her day not yours, in time you can speak to her about how you feel about religion.

Being god father doesn't have to be all about religion, be the "next best adult" on her life after her parents. Take her for days out, make her gifts a little bit more special than ordinary people. Make a wee fuss of her, slip her the odd few euro or sweets for no reason.

Your an atheist now and that's great for you that you don't pretend, but her day isn't the day to push it on everyone, that would make you no different that an overly religious person pushing their religion on everyone.

NIMAN

If you are asked to be there, just swallow your pride for an hour and do it.

You'll not catch fire or anything, and refusing to go might well insult.

Think of the child, whether or not you think the child is being brainwashed or not, not your call.

pilly

Nowadays there are so many children making their communion at one time that they're sometimes only allowed have 2 people in the church anyway, maybe 4. If that's the case then you may not be invited to the church. If you are then offer your place to a grandparent or other closer relative. That solves that part.

Then just go to the celebration afterwards.

witchgirl26

OP I wouldn't describe myself as atheist but not very religious at all. I am godmother to a lovely nephew who has been through both communion and confirmation recently. For communion, I literally just turned up to the church and sat beside him - didn't have to do anything. For confirmation, I was sat down the back as he had picked his godfather (who is religious) as his sponsor. I didn't want to buy him anything overly religious for his confirmation so instead got him a book about the history of priest holes in Ireland during Cromwell. It's entirely factual and historic but at least tied in a little.

I wouldn't worry over much at this point and just wait to see how things are playing out. Like me, you may have no active role in either ceremony and therefore can fly under the radar. To be honest, the days are about your niece, not your beliefs so I do believe in an element of not rocking the boat but at the same time, don't do something you're not comfortable with. Just make sure you express that in an honest but respectful way to the parents.

pilly

By the way, do NOT offer to unsubscribe as Godparent (or whatever way you describe it).

That is a serious insult and could end your relationship altogether.

Michael OBrien

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I am in a similar situation as you with a goddaughter and godson. I advise to simply go with the flow, don't make a scene and let the day unfold naturally. It is not about you. As far as doing anything, you don't have to do much if anything at all at the events in question. I strongly advise not seeking to leave the position, as it can be an insult to the child, or harm your relationship with the family, for essentially nothing really.
I consider my role as friend, adviser, cool uncle and confidant. I also consider it better for me to be in that role than a religious person as I will not indoctrinate the child with nonsense either.

You are free to have a chat about your views with the parents, in regard to informally letting them know you are atheist now, but DON'T seek to split from that role, I think you may regret it. I found my godchildren to be smart enough to pick up on your views anyway and think of such events as simply social rituals where they get to dress up, get money, have a meal with family and meet friends. The religious stuff washes away without much effort.

Finding a confirmation card without a god reference can be a pain, but I manage it.

realdanbreen

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

At the risk of upsetting the mod, but if you check on google you will see what the expectations of a godparent are. If you are unable/unwilling to fulfill those expectations are you being hypocrytical in attending given your loathing of the church?

NIMAN

Go along for the hour, sure you can spend your time internally shaking your head at the fools and thinking "aren't these folk all daft".

smacl

realdanbreen wrote: »

At the risk of upsetting the mod, but if you check on google you will see what the expectations of a godparent are. If you are unable/unwilling to fulfill those expectations are you being hypocrytical in attending given your loathing of the church?

To be clear, by expectations, you're talking about the expectations of the Catholic church. The OP may have little or no interest in meeting those expectations and be more interested in meeting the expectations of the child and their parents which for most people may be no more or less than being a good uncle.

realdanbreen

smacl wrote: »

To be clear, by expectations, you're talking about the expectations of the Catholic church. The OP may have little or no interest in meeting those expectations and be more interested in meeting the expectations of the child and their parents which for most people may be no more or less than being a good uncle.

Of course, it's a Catholic sacrament after all and given the ops loathing of the church surely it would be complete hypocracy to attend. .

AryaStark

realdanbreen wrote: »

At the risk of upsetting the mod, but if you check on google you will see what the expectations of a godparent are. If you are unable/unwilling to fulfill those expectations are you being hypocrytical in attending given your loathing of the church?

I am an Atheist and a godmother to my Nephew. The reason I said to being godmother is because they are all being raised as catholics and to them their godparents are special!
I was raised an Atheist as was my brother. He then married a girl who is religious and went along with her wish to have the kids christened and to raise them in the church! During the ceremony in the church I was respectful but did not say anything and it was not noticed.
Now I spoil my godchild and he knows that he is special to be but he does not know that I do not believe in God. For me God does not exist and religion is ridiculous! I know that my brother feels the same and yet he wants to make his wife happy so goes along with it. They even got married in a church!

donkeykong5

It's quiet possible it will just be you and your godchild at the altar. Just remember it's her day. She has been looking forward to it for ages. You should be honoured that of all family members you have been chosen by her. Keep the I was a Catholic but now I am an atheist talk for another day.

pilly

donkeykong5 wrote:

It's quiet possible it will just be you and your godchild at the altar. Just remember it's her day. She has been looking forward to it for ages. You should be honoured that of all family members you have been chosen by her. Keep the I was a Catholic but now I am an atheist talk for another day.

Not the case for communion.

robindch

Mod:

realdanbreen wrote: »

At the risk of upsetting the mod,

FYI - so long as you adhere to the forum charter, your contributions will be valued and the moderator team will have no wish, and certainly no need, to sanction you. If, however, you post casual insults towards your fellow posters, you will be banned from the forum.

I hope the rules are clear.

- robin.

smacl

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course, it's a Catholic sacrament after all and given the ops loathing of the church surely it would be complete hypocracy to attend.

Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.

realdanbreen

smacl wrote: »

Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.

But this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It is about the predicament that the op finds himself in . Does his loathing(his word) of the church not make it impossible for him to attend a catholic sacrament?
Or maybe his loathing is only a sentiment that he expresses when it's safe to do so.

realdanbreen

smacl wrote: »

Many Catholics in Ireland today are pretty hypocritical when in comes to observance of their religion as dictated by the church hierarchy, and yet they also go through with these ceremonies, even if only to avoid discrimination in school enrolment at a later stage. As per my initial post, this is where it makes sense to discuss the matter with the child's parents, as how the OP approaches this situation has more to do with their expectations than those of the church. As many people go through these ceremonies to keep the older generation happy and/or to keep up tradition rather than out of respect for the church or through deeply held religious belief. For the kids, it seems to be all about the moolah.

But of course this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It's about the ops(where has he gone btw) loathing(his word) of the church and how it would be almost unbearable for him to bless himself. I cannot see how he could attend a catholic sacrament given his sentiments. In fact I fail to see why he would even feel the need to seek advice on the matter unless of course his loathing only comes into play now and again.

AryaStark

realdanbreen wrote: »

But this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It is about the predicament that the op finds himself in . Does his loathing(his word) of the church not make it impossible for him to attend a catholic sacrament?
Or maybe his loathing is only a sentiment that he expresses when it's safe to do so.

I 'loath' the church and everything that it stands for. I hate it and I also hate organised religion. It did not stop me from entering a church though. I think that the majority or religious people are hypocrites and that they do not believe the teachings of the church.
I am a proud atheist but I do not feel the need to discuss it with people and for example if an old person says something like God bless you I just thank them and smile cause I think it is cute.
I think that the op should not worry so much and should spoil his goddaughter and buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.

realdanbreen

AryaStark wrote: »

I 'loath' the church and everything that it stands for. I hate it and I also hate organised religion. It did not stop me from entering a church though. I think that the majority or religious people are hypocrites and that they do not believe the teachings of the church.
I am a proud atheist but I do not feel the need to discuss it with people and for example if an old person says something like God bless you I just thank them and smile cause I think it is cute.
I think that the op should not worry so much and should spoil his goddaughter and buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.

But the fact that you think that ' the majority of religios people are hypocrites' would not make it less hypocrytical for you to attend a catholic sacrament given that you loath and hate the church.

pilly

realdanbreen wrote: »

But the fact that you think that ' the majority of religios people are hypocrites' would not make it less hypocrytical for you to attend a catholic sacrament given that you loath and hate the church.

I think you've made that same point about 6 times now. We get that's your opinion on the matter. Repeating it over and over is not going to change anyone's mind.

smacl

realdanbreen wrote: »

But of course this topic is not about 'many catholics in Ireland' It's about the ops(where has he gone btw) loathing(his word) of the church and how it would be almost unbearable for him to bless himself. I cannot see how he could attend a catholic sacrament given his sentiments. In fact I fail to see why he would even feel the need to seek advice on the matter unless of course his loathing only comes into play now and again.

Loathsome as these things are (I tend to agree with the OPs sentiments on this one) sometime you've just got to suck it up and take one for the team. We do these things for the ones we love, be it family or friends, simple as that. The OPs question really relates to what is expected of him, where the only expectations that count in this scenario are those of his family and most importantly, his niece.

tuisginideach

AryaStark wrote: »

buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.

A major generalisation ...


In my children's 1st Communion days, only the parents were invited to sit with the child in the seat - siblings, aunties, uncles, cousins, grandparents, godparents and all the other hangers on had to sit further back down the church (if they wished to be there for the ceremony). So the First Communicant probably won't even know whether the godfather is there or not - I think he may have rather an inflated opinion of his own importance!

realdanbreen

smacl wrote: »

Loathsome as these things are (I tend to agree with the OPs sentiments on this one) sometime you've just got to suck it up and take one for the team. We do these things for the ones we love, be it family or friends, simple as that. The OPs question really relates to what is expected of him, where the only expectations that count in this scenario are those of his family and most importantly, his niece.

My take on this is that there appear to be degrees of loathsome going on here. Offhand I cannot think of anyone or anything that I find loathsome or that I hate but lets take the KKK or the National front. I dislike these organisations and would not be caught dead at one of their meetings and would never consider 'sucking it up' or 'taking it for the team' in order to attend.

realdanbreen

pilly wrote: »

I think you've made that same point about 6 times now. We get that's your opinion on the matter. Repeating it over and over is not going to change anyone's mind.

Believe me I have no interest in changing anyones mind, the post was by way of response to an earlier post.

A_Sober_Paddy

I am an atheist but was godfather to my niece last month, they told me there was much religion related stuff involving me...Well I was misinformed, they expected me to accept God created the earth, just sat there in silence refused to answer the yes I was supposed to

Worztron

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was godfather to my niece and didn't have to do anything at her communion, and she's picked my sister as her sponsor for her confirmation. result.

Thanks for the info. So your sister will be the 'godfather' for your nieces confirmation?

Worztron

Dial Hard wrote: »

There's a huge religious element to being a godparent in a Catholic baptism. How did you handle that aspect? I'm asking out of genuine interest as I suspect I'll shortly be in the position of having to say no to being a godparent for this very reason.

There was very little to it. Back then I was a typical 'catholic' -- only ever entered a church on special occasions. Was more neutral then.

frostyjacks

Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.

AryaStark

realdanbreen wrote: »

My take on this is that there appear to be degrees of loathsome going on here. Offhand I cannot think of anyone or anything that I find loathsome or that I hate but lets take the KKK or the National front. I dislike these organisations and would not be caught dead at one of their meetings and would never consider 'sucking it up' or 'taking it for the team' in order to attend.

But my brother has not married a member of the KKK and if he did I would disown him! Religion is still very mainstream and to be involved in my nephews lives I have to accept that they will be raised believing in God and believing that Godparents are special.
When they are teenagers I will explain all about atheism and that I am one. For now me sucking it up and going along with what they believe does not compromise me or them.

AryaStark

Worztron wrote: »

Thanks for the info. So your sister will be the 'godfather' for your nieces confirmation?

Godparents are chosen when a baby is being christened.

At the confirmation the child chooses a sponsor... this does not have to be the godparents.

A_Sober_Paddy

frostyjacks wrote: »

Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.

Would you have the same view of Nazi's, KKK, harmam Boco. They are all organisations who do and have done horrible acts the same as the Roman Catholic church.

Worztron

frostyjacks wrote: »

Just do your duty. It would be an insult to the child and the parents if you snubbed their big day because of some chip on your shoulder. Leave your prejudices at the door.

'chip on my shoulder' -- that's some ignorant statement from you right there.