90 day suspension of visas for certain countries

recedite

alastair wrote: »

Oh please. It's not 'fake news'. The administration did state that green card holders from those states were also included. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX

One junior staffer made a mistake in one e-mail, which was quickly corrected.
Can you forgive her?

"It will bar green card holders," Gillian Christensen, acting Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, said in an email.
A senior White House official later sought to clarify the situation, saying green card holders who had left the United States and wanted to return would have to visit a U.S. embassy or consulate to undergo additional screening.
"You will be allowed to re-enter the United States pending a routine rescreening," the official said.

The routine rescreening by officers of a Green Card holder is discretionary, as was also described by Priebus above, depending on whether the person is going back and forth from a potentially hostile region.


All very sensible stuff.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

One junior staffer made a mistake in one e-mail, which was quickly corrected.
Can you forgive her?

She's not a 'junior staffer'. She's the Press Secretary at U.S. Department of Homeland Security - the person responsible for communicating policy to the media there. Not her fault that Trump didn't bother liasing with anyone there though. The position wasn't corrected until the media forced the whitehouse to go and find out what they understood the actual situation was. Clown show. Not fake news.

recedite

alastair wrote: »

The white helmets aren't jihadist. And the 'masquerading' as a civil defence organisation is pretty convincing stuff - you'd swear it was an actual civil defence organisation!

Very few independent journalists have actually been on the ground in Syria. Nearly all the BBC reports are filmed in Beirut, which is in Lebanon.

A UN delegation went to Syria to take a look. Description of the "White Helmets" at 1.30 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUhe87r5bEE

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Very few independent journalists have actually been on the ground in Syria. Nearly all the BBC reports are filmed in Beirut, which is in Lebanon.

A UN delegation went to Syria to take a look. Description of the "White Helmets" at 1.30 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUhe87r5bEE

Oh dear. It's not a 'UN delegation'. It's a pro Assad PR event from the Syrian Delegation at the UN. Eva Bartlett openly supports the Assad regime. Here's a thorough Snopes debunking of this guff: http://www.snopes.com/syrian-war-victims-are-being-recycled-and-al-quds-hospital-was-never-bombed/

blackwhite

Inquitus wrote: »

White House seems to be backing the truck up a bit:



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/trump-muslim-country-travel-ban-john-mccain

Further climb-down it would appear

http://www.espn.co.uk/olympics/story/_/id/18577702/mo-farah-relieved-rejoin-family-unitad-states-amid-immigration-ban

Following conversations between British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson and the U.S. government, Britain's Foreign Office said later Sunday that Trump's executive order applies only to individuals traveling from one of the seven named countries, regardless of nationality or place of birth. That suggested Farah would be OK to return to the United States.

Stheno

blackwhite wrote: »

Further climb-down it would appear

http://www.espn.co.uk/olympics/story/_/id/18577702/mo-farah-relieved-rejoin-family-unitad-states-amid-immigration-ban

THat sounds worse to be honest.

E.g. if I were travelling from Syria to the US on my Irish passport what you've posted suggests the clampdown would apply to me?

Billy86

Stheno wrote: »

THat sounds worse to be honest.

E.g. if I were travelling from Syria to the US on my Irish passport what you've posted suggests the clampdown would apply to me?

And makes it even more transparent as an attempt to pander to the base than it was before. If a jihadist were to fly to the US (and had a clean record etc to pass immigration - it's not as if their terrorist group of choice wouldn't vet them on that kind of stuff), what's to stop them from simply travelling to Saudi or Egypt and flying to the US from there?

fran17

alastair wrote: »

The white helmets aren't jihadist. And the 'masquerading' as a civil defence organisation is pretty convincing stuff - you'd swear it was an actual civil defence organisation!

:rolleyes:

Of course they came into existence in the guise of civil defence in an attempt to delegitimise the actual Syrian defense forces but we all know how that story ended now.
When you have a group who have been filmed waving IS flags,being present at Al Nusra executions and admit to throwing Syrian soldiers bodies into ditches then that's pretty persuasive evidence.

blackwhite

Stheno wrote: »

THat sounds worse to be honest.

E.g. if I were travelling from Syria to the US on my Irish passport what you've posted suggests the clampdown would apply to me?

Sounds like it.

But TBH - I doubt they've even thought that far ahead on it. They'll probably have changed it again by this evening.

recedite

alastair wrote: »

Here's a thorough Snopes debunking of this guff: http://www.snopes.com/syrian-war-victims-are-being-recycled-and-al-quds-hospital-was-never-bombed/

So, is there anything there that actually disproves what this reporter has seen in Syria?

On the hospital which she said had not been bombed, Snopes quote MSF staff saying it was not bombed, but two nearby buildings were.
Snopes claim to have a video of hospital after it was bombed, wbut when you click on the link... no video.
Just this CBS report from (yes, you guessed it; Beirut) citing the heroic White Helmets talking about how they cleaned up the mess after the bombing.
Its all a bit circular isn't it? An account by The White Helmets being cited to prove that the White Helmets are as noble as they say they are.

So you're saying this Canadian reporter lied about everything she saw in Syria?
And BTW that is not "the Syrian Delegation" visiting the UN. Utter nonsense. They are not even Syrians. They were a group of independent people who travelled to Syria under UN auspices, paying their own way there.

Akrasia

Stheno wrote: »

THat sounds worse to be honest.

E.g. if I were travelling from Syria to the US on my Irish passport what you've posted suggests the clampdown would apply to me?

It leaves a lot of questions unanswered. What does originate mean? Would aid workers in Syria be banned from returning home to America?

it's as clear as mud at the moment.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

So, is there anything there that actually disproves what this reporter has seen in Syria?

On the hospital which she said had not been bombed, Snopes quote MSF staff saying it was not bombed, but two nearby buildings were.
Snopes claim to have a video of hospital after it was bombed, wbut when you click on the link... no video.
Just this CBS report from (yes, you guessed it; Beirut) citing the heroic White Helmets talking about how they cleaned up the mess after the bombing.
Its all a bit circular isn't it? An account by The White Helmets being cited to prove that the White Helmets are as noble as they say they are.

So you're saying this Canadian reporter lied about everything she saw in Syria?
And BTW that is not "the Syrian Delegation" visiting the UN. Utter nonsense. They are not even Syrians. They were a group of independent people who travelled to Syria under UN auspices, paying their own way there.

Once again; Oh dear. That press conference is hosted by the Syrian delegation. It's not a UN delegation that went to Syria. The journalists that went to Syria (including the BBC for your information) did so on the invitation of a Syrian parliamentary representative responsible for Aleppo. The only UN connection with any of this is that the Assad regime used their UN delegation to host the PR event.

The air strike on the hospital: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CoestsFC5Fw

recedite

blackwhite wrote: »

Further climb-down it would appear

http://www.espn.co.uk/olympics/story/_/id/18577702/mo-farah-relieved-rejoin-family-unitad-states-amid-immigration-ban

Its all a bit "he said she said he said"...
If Mo has a green card or a valid visa, he was never threatened with being barred from the US, despite his own efforts to $hit-stir.

There is advice given there in that article that nationality doesn't count, only the country the person is flying from counts. I'm pretty sure that will turn out to be incorrect advice.
And when it turns out to be wrong, media people will be probably call it "another U-turn".

Billy86

recedite wrote: »

Its all a bit "he said she said he said"...
If Mo has a green card or a valid visa, he was never threatened with being barred from the US

Apart from when he was threatened with being barred from the US.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Its all a bit "he said she said he said"...
If Mo has a green card or a valid visa, he was never threatened with being barred from the US, despite his own efforts to $hit-stir.

Except of course, when he was threatened, along with all the other dual nationality or green card holders from those states. Kinda strange to accuse him of **** stirring when he's only responding to the **** emanating from the administration.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/green-card-holders-included-trump-152535025.html
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654?mod=e2fb

alastair

fran17 wrote: »

Of course they came into existence in the guise of civil defence in an attempt to delegitimise the actual Syrian defense forces but we all know how that story ended now.
When you have a group who have been filmed waving IS flags,being present at Al Nusra executions and admit to throwing Syrian soldiers bodies into ditches then that's pretty persuasive evidence.

It's really not. They operate in the areas not under the control of the Assad regime. That neither invalidates the civil defence work they do, nor does it mean they can isolate themselves from the range of anti-Assad forces in the areas they work. The Assad regime delegitimised itself by turning its military on its citizens in the face of peaceful protest. They didn't need any help in that regard.

recedite

alastair wrote: »

Except of course, when he was threatened, along with all the other dual nationality or green card holders from those states. Kinda strange to accuse him of **** stirring when he's only responding to the **** emanating from the administration.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/green-card-holders-included-trump-152535025.html
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654?mod=e2fb

All going back to that one incorrect e-mail, which as we have already established, was quickly corrected by more senior staff.
Storm in a teacup

alastair

recedite wrote: »

All going back to that one incorrect e-mail, which as we have already established, was quickly corrected by more senior staff.
Storm in a teacup

At what point do you recognise that Mo Farah had legitimate concerns? Both the Dept of Homeland Security Press Office, and the State Department confirmed that he was to be barred. And he's the **** stirrer?

recedite

alastair wrote: »

..and the State Department confirmed that he was to be barred.

Can you link to that statement?

Here's a short video about those White Helmets and their funding.
I suspect that not only will they not get their visas, but their US funding will soon be severely cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eRSYs2Qbq4

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Can you link to that statement?

“Travelers who have nationality or dual nationality of one of these countries will not be permitted for 90 days to enter the United States or be issued an immigrant or nonimmigrant visa,” the statement said. “Those nationals or dual nationals holding valid immigrant or nonimmigrant visas will not be permitted to enter the United States during this period. Visa interviews will generally not be scheduled for nationals of these countries during this period.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-2017-01-28

As to the video with the scary soundtrack from the Putin mouthpiece - yes, they're funded by various sources including the UK and US in the mix. They also get support from Trocaire. Terrible isn't it?

DeadHand

Trump's decision to restrict movement from various Jihadic pits is looking immediately prudent given the latest bout of Islamic violence in Canada.

It will look increasingly wise as 2017 inevitably sees the Religion of Peace bless continental Europe with yet more of its regular spectacles.

The USA has heeded the lessons of continental Europe- Ireland seems determined to repeat them as foreigner and militant Leftist Zappone indulges herself in hoovering up as many illegal immigrants painted as "refugee children" from Calais as possible- none are refugees and (going by the experience in the UK and Sweden are any indication) I doubt many are actually children; taking food from the tables of vulnerable Irish children to do so.

The decent people inconvenienced by these measures should blame the disgusting behaviour of their compatriots before blaming Donald Trump. Actions have consequences. They need to do some soul searching and ask themselves is Islam really making the world better or their lives happier.

CMOTDibbler

DeadHand wrote: »

Trump's decision to restrict movement from various Jihadic pits is looking immediately prudent given the latest bout of Islamic violence in Canada.

Seriously? The victims are at fault for being Muslims at prayer?

recedite

alastair wrote: »

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-says-1485628654

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-visa-ban-also-applies-to-citizens-with-dual-nationality-state-department-2017-01-28

Seems like hearsay to me. The second link says

In a statement that the State Department is due to release...

Where is the statement?

Nody

DeadHand wrote: »

Trump's decision to restrict movement from various Jihadic pits is looking immediately prudent given the latest bout of Islamic violence in Canada.

Except that part where he actually ignored the countries where the so called Jihads where coming from, you know Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE, Chechnya, Jordan etc. and that 80% of the attacks since 2001 have been by people with the right to stay in USA (and a whopping 65% being American citizens).

Oh and maybe you missed the part where ISIS announced Trumps ban as the best gift they could get as it helps frame their message of West doing war on Islam which is what they use to recruit new members.

Here's their view:

Isis-friendly channels on Telegram described the ban as “blessed”, echoing how the US’ 2003 invasion of Iraq was called a “blessed invasion” for reinvigorating anti-US sentiment in the region.

Several posts suggested that the prediction of Anwar al-Awlaki - a US-born al Qaeda leader killed in Yemen in 2011 - that “the West would eventually turn against its Muslim citizens” was coming true.

But I know facts are not fun and useful but if they only people cheering you on are right wing extremists and religious nut cases you might want to take a moment and reflect on why that is the case...

The decent people inconvenienced by these measures should blame the disgusting behaviour of their compatriots before blaming Donald Trump. Actions have consequences. They need to do some soul searching and ask themselves is Islam really making the world better or their lives happier.

Funny I could ask you to do the same soul searching and ask "Does Donald Trump really make the world a better or USA safer" and the answer would have to be a resounding no to that question.

alastair

DeadHand wrote: »

Trump's decision to restrict movement from various Jihadic pits is looking immediately prudent given the latest bout of Islamic violence in Canada.

It will look increasingly wise as 2017 inevitably sees the Religion of Peace bless continental Europe with yet more of its regular spectacles.

The USA has heeded the lessons of continental Europe- Ireland seems determined to repeat them as foreigner and militant Leftist Zappone indulges herself in hoovering up as many illegal immigrants painted as "refugee children" from Calais as possible- none are refugees and (going by the experience in the UK and Sweden are any indication) I doubt many are actually children; taking food from the tables of vulnerable Irish children to do so.

The decent people inconvenienced by these measures should blame the disgusting behaviour of their compatriots before blaming Donald Trump. Actions have consequences. They need to do some soul searching and ask themselves is Islam really making the world better or their lives happier.

Just one problem in all that personal opinion. None of their compatriots have done anything in the US to warrant a ban. Kinda hard to pretend you're protecting someone from a threat, when that threat hasn't actually presented itself, and threats from those in other locations actually have.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Seems like hearsay to me. The second link says
Where is the statement?

It's not hearsay, it's attributed.

frostyjacks

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Seriously? The victims are at fault for being Muslims at prayer?

The attackers were Muslims, same story for almost every terror attack around the world in recent years, plus sexual assault attacks. Trump is putting the safety of his people ahead of PC sensibilities. Long may he reign.

Billy86

DeadHand wrote: »

Trump's decision to restrict movement from various Jihadic pits is looking immediately prudent given the latest bout of Islamic violence in Canada.

You seem to be mixing up victims with culprits here. We don't know what the motives were yet, but Quebec is the one part of Canada with a reasonably strong Islamophobic streak. Apparently the two names have been released, one being Mohamed Khadir (apparently Canadian born reportedly of Morrocan consent) and the other is Alexandre Bisonette:



Both are said to have had Quebecois accents.

CMOTDibbler

frostyjacks wrote: »

The attackers were Muslims, same story for almost every terror attack around the world in recent years, plus sexual assault attacks. Trump is putting the safety of his people ahead of PC sensibilities. Long may he reign.

recedite wrote: »

We'll have to wait and see what the motive was. Maybe the Friday Muslims had a row with the Sunday Muslims. Who knows.

Indeed. Who knows. But still able to definitively state who's at fault on this thread.

And throw in all sorts of other crimes for good measure. To be sure like.

alastair

frostyjacks wrote: »

The attackers were Muslims, same story for almost every terror attack around the world in recent years, plus sexual assault attacks. Trump is putting the safety of his people ahead of PC sensibilities. Long may he reign.

A strange Muslim:

Alexandre Bissonnette likes the Facebook pages of U.S. President Donald Trump and French far-right leader Marine Le Pen, but he does not express support for them elsewhere on his page. Other likes include the Israel Defense Forces, United With Israel and Parti Québécois of Université Laval.