90 day suspension of visas for certain countries

Mr.Micro · 29-01-2017 5:26pm

murphaph wrote: »

If this was at all about counter terrorism then surely Saudi nationals would be top of the banned list seeing as they have killed far more US citizens in terrorist attacks than those of any other country, US domestic terrorism excepted.

We are all trying to apply logic to it, when in reality it's alternate logic which should be applied, as used by the Donald and his team.

fran17 · 29-01-2017 5:59pm

I think this temporary measure is both tactful and appropriate and will be proven to be correct in the long run.This 90 day window will allow for the checks and balances to be put in place which will ultimately make America safer.If a nation cannot confirm an individual is who he says he is before entering the country then that nation is in peril,just ask Germany,France ,Belgium etc.Once the Soros NGOs and CAIR cease funding and stoking the fire then even those precious darlings protesting at the airports will understand.

Inquitus · 29-01-2017 6:07pm

fran17 wrote: »

I think this temporary measure is both tactful and appropriate and will be proven to be correct in the long run.This 90 day window will allow for the checks and balances to be put in place which will ultimately make America safer.If a nation cannot confirm an individual is who he says he is before entering the country then that nation is in peril,just ask Germany,France ,Belgium etc.Once the Soros NGOs and CAIR cease funding and stoking the fire then even those precious darlings protesting at the airports will understand.

These people have already been through extreme vetting. The Iraqi Interpreter who was held up at JFK this weekend, had to demonstrate that there had been attempts on his life and his families lives in order to be considered for the program and then spent nigh on 3 years getting his papers vetted, these are not just random people turning up. This man spent 10 years working with the US Army in Iraq, furthering US ambitions and helping save US lives.

CMOTDibbler · 29-01-2017 6:08pm

fran17 wrote: »

I think this temporary measure is both tactful and appropriate and will be proven to be correct in the long run.This 90 day window will allow for the checks and balances to be put in place which will ultimately make America safer.If a nation cannot confirm an individual is who he says he is before entering the country then that nation is in peril,just ask Germany,France ,Belgium etc.Once the Soros NGOs and CAIR cease funding and stoking the fire then even those precious darlings protesting at the airports will understand.

Do you really think this measure would prevent terrorists from entering the US? All it does is tell them which passport to have when entering via an airport or other transit point.

ED E · 29-01-2017 6:09pm

fran17 wrote: »

I think this temporary measure is both tactful and appropriate and will be proven to be correct in the long run.This 90 day window will allow for the checks and balances to be put in place which will ultimately make America safer.If a nation cannot confirm an individual is who he says he is before entering the country then that nation is in peril,just ask Germany,France ,Belgium etc.Once the Soros NGOs and CAIR cease funding and stoking the fire then even those precious darlings protesting at the airports will understand.

It takes 28-32 months to get approval which involves 5-6 interviews spaced out by months. What more vetting do you suggest?

Steve012 · 29-01-2017 6:11pm

murphaph wrote: »

If this was at all about counter terrorism then surely Saudi nationals would be top of the banned list seeing as they have killed far more US citizens in terrorist attacks than those of any other country, US domestic terrorism excepted.

Indeed, its quite a f**king joke tbh, They bomb, Iraq, Lybia and Syria, don't let anymore of those folks into the country. The Saudi's apparently had a hand in 9/11 and they're free to travel as normal... Such obvious bullsh*ite :rolleyes:

Inquitus · 29-01-2017 6:11pm

White House seems to be backing the truck up a bit:

Trump’s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, however, appeared to concede ground when he said the ban would no longer apply to green-card holders.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/trump-muslim-country-travel-ban-john-mccain

fran17 · 29-01-2017 6:21pm

Inquitus wrote: »

These people have already been through extreme vetting. The Iraqi Interpreter who was held up at JFK this weekend, had to demonstrate that there had been attempts on his life and his families lives in order to be considered for the program and then spent nigh on 3 years getting his papers vetted, these are not just random people turning up. This man spent 10 years working with the US Army in Iraq, furthering US ambitions and helping save US lives.

I don't feel we can look at this from an individuals perspective but rather as a whole.I'd imagine there was attempts on this mans life,anybody proved to be colluding with the enemy in war usually finds themselves in harms way.President Trump called for a much stronger measure during the campaign regarding this issue and now he is holding true to that promise.Is it not refreshing that we have somebody who actually does what he campaigns on?

fran17 · 29-01-2017 6:25pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Do you really think this measure would prevent terrorists from entering the US? All it does is tell them which passport to have when entering via an airport or other transit point.

Well yes,yes I do think it will prevent terrorists entering the US.I think it would be impossible to evaluate just how many but it will reduce the risk.

Stheno · 29-01-2017 6:27pm

fran17 wrote: »

Well yes,yes I do think it will prevent terrorists entering the US.I think it would be impossible to evaluate just how many but it will reduce the risk.

How? They now know to get e.g a Saudi passport and they are fine to get in.

fran17 · 29-01-2017 6:37pm

Stheno wrote: »

How? They now know to get e.g a Saudi passport and they are fine to get in.

Or they could simply wait for this temporary restriction to expire and if they meet the criteria then they may enter.I don't know the ins and outs of Saudi nationality law but I'd imagine getting a Saudi Arabian passport would be quite difficult to say the least.

CMOTDibbler · 29-01-2017 6:41pm

fran17 wrote: »

Or they could simply wait for this temporary restriction to expire and if they meet the criteria then they may enter.I don't know the ins and outs of Saudi nationality law but I'd imagine getting a Saudi Arabian passport would be quite difficult to say the least.

Being born there for the win.

Or naturalised. Or forged or stolen. So many ways. And there's history of Saudi nationals carrying out attacks on US soil. Any such attack would require careful planning, would be required to be 'spectacular' and would require massive funding.

A passport from the right country would be the least of those problems.

Overheal · 29-01-2017 7:06pm

fran17 wrote: »

Well yes,yes I do think it will prevent terrorists entering the US.I think it would be impossible to evaluate just how many but it will reduce the risk.

But when 97% of climate scientists agree on something, that's not enough convincing to take action...

alastair · 29-01-2017 7:07pm

fran17 wrote: »

I don't feel we can look at this from an individuals perspective but rather as a whole.I'd imagine there was attempts on this mans life,anybody proved to be colluding with the enemy in war usually finds themselves in harms way.President Trump called for a much stronger measure during the campaign regarding this issue and now he is holding true to that promise.Is it not refreshing that we have somebody who actually does what he campaigns on?

Whether you take an individual's perspective, or an overview, the policy makes no sense whatsoever. All the approved refugees and green card holders have already been comprehensively investigated and documented before they get to set foot in the US. There's nobody pretending that any new 'extreme vetting' is going to improve on the current review processes. Nothing is going to change in the next 90 days in that regard. The process takes literally years already. Trump has merely managed to needlessly antagonise greater numbers for precisely zero benefit.

murphaph · 29-01-2017 7:23pm

fran17 wrote: »

Well yes,yes I do think it will prevent terrorists entering the US.I think it would be impossible to evaluate just how many but it will reduce the risk.

And how many Muslims already legally in the US will now be radicalised because of it?

dissed doc · 29-01-2017 7:34pm

murphaph wrote: »

And how many Muslims already legally in the US will now be radicalised because of it?

Fear of upsetting people cannot be a reason to not implement the law.

Fear is what drives this; the fear is based on the pretty high number of Islam-driven terrorist attacks in the US by people already there.

Does the Gardaí cracking down on crime in Ireland radicalise Irish criminals into committing more crime? I don't think so. The opposite is true. The opposite was true in NYC when they cracked down on crime there. The same in German when they crack down on far-right groups.

Please back up your assertion! You are making it about religion in the framework of what you think religion is, when in fact it is about an agile terrorism based on Islam as a background; Islam the way of life. To suggest that using police and force to stop crime, would mean we should also reduce Gardaí action on drug crime because if we attack drug criminals, they might commit more offences!

What an insane type of double-think!

I see your location is Germany.

Germany sees extremist far-right White Nationalist groups spreading, causing violence, etc., : to stop it expanding, they crack down on it heavily.

Germany see extremist Islamic groups spreading, causing violence, etc., : to stop it expanding....they ignore it.

Trump is not ignoring it in the US. Hungary is not ignoring it. Le Pen is not ignoring it. Wilders is not ignoring it. Germany is ignoring a problem for a reason so far unknown to the public; OCcams Razor thinking would suggest to me it is because someone is wilfully and actively choosing to have it ignored.

What are the benefits of cracking down on nationalist groups, and ignoring crime from non-nationalist groups? Germany has a policy of "denationalisation" ingrained in the school system. They are actually either actively or passively simply incapable to stopping their issues because only "nationalism" (failed miserable German-type nationalism) is a problem.

The Germans sucked at nationalism. It caused massive death, endless misery; the German type of nationalism killed millions and scapegoated minorities for any economic or political failure. Swiss nationalism is quite pleasant (cuckoo clocks, snow, cheese, flags everywhere - swiss nationalism is on every street there). American nationalism is also something many wrap themselves in - Democrat and Republican together. UK nationalism is everywhere when you step foot in the place. German nationalism? All they have the miserable bad collective memory of being failures at what so many other societies get right, peacefully and successfully, for the good of all citizens, to overcome differences in religion, gender, etc., ..

martingriff · 29-01-2017 7:44pm

I think this will become cluster f*&k especially if the courts come out in relation to. Trump just went right on without ant thought or talking with anyone. (Which is something both sides do like Obama with the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). He will have to find a way to tone it down yet see it as a win. When I heard he was signing this in my first thought was so what will happen with those that have green cards visa etc that just happened to be out of the country. Looked like whoever framed this for him to sign did not think. Plus given he was doing this for largely Muslim countries where is the ban on Saudi Arabia. When I heard Irag was one I laughed.

Now I have NO problem with imposing strict rules and vetting which the EU should have been doing a long time ago and maybe coming in but some thought and complete bans on 1 place and not another when the both fit the criteria is bonkers. Some one from thr Republican party or the legal from the Supreme Court need to give him a good talk

Rightwing · 29-01-2017 7:55pm

Trump certainly appears to be a man of action. Getting things done quickly. Whilst I sort of agree with these bans, because Trump is right, no one knows anything about these loose cannons from places like Yemen, America does have a moral obligation after creating the mess in the first instance.

fran17 · 29-01-2017 8:54pm

alastair wrote: »

Whether you take an individual's perspective, or an overview, the policy makes no sense whatsoever. All the approved refugees and green card holders have already been comprehensively investigated and documented before they get to set foot in the US. There's nobody pretending that any new 'extreme vetting' is going to improve on the current review processes. Nothing is going to change in the next 90 days in that regard. The process takes literally years already. Trump has merely managed to needlessly antagonise greater numbers for precisely zero benefit.

My understanding is that all green card holders are immune from this order and that there is a certain level of discretion granted to border agents and authorities.Sure President Trump may have antagonised some but I see it as President Trump holding true to his campaign promise to the American people as a whole.He campaigned strongly,and was elected,on the promise of restricting immigration and has now acted accordingly.

martingriff · 29-01-2017 9:11pm

fran17 wrote: »

My understanding is that all green card holders are immune from this order and that there is a certain level of discretion granted to border agents and authorities.Sure President Trump may have antagonised some but I see it as President Trump holding true to his campaign promise to the American people as a whole.He campaigned strongly,and was elected,on the promise of restricting immigration and has now acted accordingly.

I have seen on BBC of people turned away even been put back on flight as they are not allowed in. So it looks like a lot of people do not know he ins or out. Also if this review of 90 days turns out the vetting is secure how will he turn that to his favour. I have nothing against if the America want to tighten ecurity but a quick law passed with no debate or scrutiny can male things worse then better. We have found that out her in our country with some of our laws

CMOTDibbler · 29-01-2017 9:22pm

murphaph wrote: »

And how many Muslims already legally in the US will now be radicalised because of it?

I think that's a stretch tbh. I wouldn't think there's much to fear there unless you're paranoid.

The real danger is the attitude that muslims in the US will encounter. It's another reason for distrust and xenophobia. I really hope I'm wrong here because we've seen exactly how that kind of margnalisation and criminlisation of minorities panned out in the past.

Not fun times at all.

Nody · 29-01-2017 9:54pm

fran17 wrote: »

My understanding is that all green card holders are immune from this order and that there is a certain level of discretion granted to border agents and authorities.Sure President Trump may have antagonised some but I see it as President Trump holding true to his campaign promise to the American people as a whole.He campaigned strongly,and was elected,on the promise of restricting immigration and has now acted accordingly.

Your understanding is wrong; green cards holders are included in the order as confirmed by the White house chief of staff Reince Priebus.

fran17 · 29-01-2017 10:14pm

Nody wrote: »

Your understanding is wrong; green cards holders are included in the order as confirmed by the White house chief of staff Reince Priebus.

From the horses mouth,so to speak:

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/priebus-green-card-holders-not-affected-by-executive-order-865264195736

Inquitus · 29-01-2017 10:20pm

fran17 wrote: »

From the horses mouth,so to speak:

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/priebus-green-card-holders-not-affected-by-executive-order-865264195736

The White House backed up the truck on this one, they clearly stated Green Cards were included then did a U Turn today due to the pressure being mounted.

Inquitus · 29-01-2017 10:58pm

Joint statement from McCain and Graham

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) released the following statement today on the President’s executive order on immigration:

“Our government has a responsibility to defend our borders, but we must do so in a way that makes us safer and upholds all that is decent and exceptional about our nation.

“It is clear from the confusion at our airports across the nation that President Trump’s executive order was not properly vetted. We are particularly concerned by reports that this order went into effect with little to no consultation with the Departments of State, Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security.

“Such a hasty process risks harmful results. We should not stop green-card holders from returning to the country they call home. We should not stop those who have served as interpreters for our military and diplomats from seeking refuge in the country they risked their lives to help. And we should not turn our backs on those refugees who have been shown through extensive vetting to pose no demonstrable threat to our nation, and who have suffered unspeakable horrors, most of them women and children.

“Ultimately, we fear this executive order will become a self-inflicted wound in the fight against terrorism. At this very moment, American troops are fighting side-by-side with our Iraqi partners to defeat ISIL. But this executive order bans Iraqi pilots from coming to military bases in Arizona to fight our common enemies. Our most important allies in the fight against ISIL are the vast majority of Muslims who reject its apocalyptic ideology of hatred. This executive order sends a signal, intended or not, that America does not want Muslims coming into our country. That is why we fear this executive order may do more to help terrorist recruitment than improve our security.”

http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/1/statement-by-senators-mccain-graham-on-executive-order-on-immigration

Trumps response

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825822320128303110

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825823217025691648

Stheno · 29-01-2017 11:00pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Joint statement from McCain and Graham

http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/1/statement-by-senators-mccain-graham-on-executive-order-on-immigration

Trumps response

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825822320128303110

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825823217025691648

That response from Trump is actually disturbing did he even read the statement?

CMOTDibbler · 29-01-2017 11:49pm

Stheno wrote: »

That response from Trump is actually disturbing did he even read the statement?

He did. He read "President Trump... not properly... hasty... harmful..."

alastair · 30-01-2017 12:47am

Stheno wrote: »

That response from Trump is actually disturbing did he even read the statement?

He just focussed on the alternative facts.

Rightwing · 30-01-2017 10:46am

Inquitus wrote: »

Joint statement from McCain and Graham

http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/1/statement-by-senators-mccain-graham-on-executive-order-on-immigration

Trumps response

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825822320128303110

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/825823217025691648

Maybe they could tell us what is exceptional, is it activities like dropping 500 bombs per week?

Obama banned Iraqis for 6 months back in 2011 and everything was kept nice and quiet.

dissed doc · 30-01-2017 11:02am

Rightwing wrote: »

Maybe they could tell us what is exceptional, is it activities like dropping 500 bombs per week?

Obama banned Iraqis for 6 months back in 2011 and everything was kept nice and quiet.

Obama was **** material for liberals though. He and Hillary killed approx. 1 million Muslims. But Trump is the bad guy!

90 day suspension of visas for certain countries

Comments