Irish Rail first class Dublin-Cork, is it worth it?

Jamie2k9

bk wrote: »

How about this for a comparison. The most expensive walk up train fare * in the Netherlands is €26! €26 is the max, you can travel the entire length of the network on it!

* Actually all fares are walk up as their is no pre-booking.

High capacity Double Decker trains, the entire train network electrified. The quietest rural lines have one to two trains per hour, rural lines 2 to 4 trains per hour and the business lines 10 trains per hour.

Now that is how you run a train network. A fast, frequent, cheap and very easy to use train service, encourages very high passenger numbers.

and you would be the very first person to post on here about IE not providing the adequate capacity.

Online booking is the way to go, majority safe a few quid, once enhanced online services are launched this month it will make it better.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

and you would be the very first person to post on here about IE not providing the adequate capacity.

Online booking is the way to go, majority safe a few quid, once enhanced online services are launched this month it will make it better.

it's only the way to go for railways that operate along the british model of low capacity and inflexibility, and even that model is slowly coming to an end over there all though they have a long way to go. for modern european railways that operate high capacity and which are flexible, online booking and walk up are left to the customer to decide rather then 1 favoured over the other.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

it's only the way to go for railways that operate along the british model of low capacity and inflexibility, and even that model is slowly coming to an end over there all though they have a long way to go. for modern european railways that operate high capacity and which are flexible, online booking and walk up are left to the customer to decide rather then 1 favoured over the other.

Online is way better particularly for capacity, schedule planning and so on. The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

dudara

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah but what about the hundreds of clerical staff involved in CIE's current, overly complicated marketing, timetabling and ticket selling nonsense, not to mention the expensive ticket vending machines, ticket office staff and travelling ticket sellers - there wouldn't be any jobs for them in a streamlined system. And Barry Kenny and his other spin doctors would have even less work to do as there would be less complaints.

I don't know about back office staffing, but the Dutch rail service has a huge number of people out on the platforms, in the stations assisting people. It's a superb service. They have a fully integrated electronic card for travelling and the trains are pretty reliable.

n97 mini

Quackster wrote: »

That said, I think we can all be in agreement that public transport is substantially underfunded in this country.

A lot of rail lines are beyond funding. Money isn't the problem. It's lack of population density to use them.

bk

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Online is way better particularly for capacity, schedule planning and so on. The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

as i said, only for a railway that relies on inflexibility and low capacity. IE managed planning and scheduling and capacity long before online booking. now they can't manage capacity because consecutive bosses who happen to be from uk railways have made our railway inflexible.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

as i said, only for a railway that relies on inflexibility and low capacity. IE managed planning and scheduling and capacity long before online booking. now they can't manage capacity because consecutive bosses who happen to be from uk railways have made our railway inflexible.

I wouldn't say it's a low capacity, but just avoids the scenes for example that were repeated over recent years.

Cheap fares in Netherlands are because taxpayers foot a bigger share of the bill, I don't for a minute believe that a heavily subsidized railway is the way to go.

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

Like I said, taxpayers are paying for this in Europe. Yes Goverment need to increase capital spending in Irish Rail however I don't believe slashing fares is a way to operate a business either.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

A lot of rail lines are beyond funding. Money isn't the problem. It's lack of population density to use them.

incorrect. all lines have a population density to use them. deliberate running down and underfunding however have saw to a demise and will see to more demises.

bk wrote: »

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

not quite what i was thinking but i would agree with much of what you said. it needs to stop pretending to be something it isn't. however, i do believe that it simply being a high capacity bus service might not help long distance rail long term. i believe that some of the old ideas are actually what the railway needs back, but it needs to be done right. so, a proper first class, a high quality onboard environment. being user friendly regular and fast. ideally cheep to use as well. we can have a railway that can be good value but high quality as well, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's a low capacity, but just avoids the scenes for example that were repeated over recent years.

Cheap fares in Netherlands are because taxpayers foot a bigger share of the bill, I don't for a minute believe that a heavily subsidized railway is the way to go.



Like I said, taxpayers are paying for this in Europe. Yes Goverment need to increase capital spending in Irish Rail however I don't believe slashing fares is a way to operate a business either.

maybe not, but surely it could be tried. if it genuinely doesn't work, fair enough. but if it gets more on to the service then surely that is what we want.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect. all lines have a population density to use them. deliberate running down and underfunding however have saw to a demise and will see to more demises.

People have to live within the catchment area of a station for the train to be usuable. With such dispersed rural populations in Ireland many do not live close enough. The Waterford-Rosslare line is a case in point, with a population density of only 3 people per km.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

People have to live within the catchment area of a station for the train to be usuable. With such dispersed rural populations in Ireland many do not live close enough. The Waterford-Rosslare line is a case in point, with a population density of only 3 people per km.

it's actually not a case in point. it has a decent catchment and is more competitive (well was more competitive) then the road option. but frankly we are simply going over old ground.

tabbey

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

The majority don't take the train !!

They go by car because the rail fares are grossly overpriced.

If the lowest fares were available to walk-on passengers, the public would use the train. Only peak trains should have limited access. The great majority of mainline trains have lots of empty seats.
There is no point having a train to Cork every hour, if you are restricted to the service that you have booked in advance.

When you go by car you can change your plans without penalty, why should rail passengers be restricted?

Give the fare paying public a decent service at reasonable fares, and they will use the railway. Otherwise long distance trains will depend on DSP payments for free travel passengers.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

The majority don't take the train !!

They go by car because the rail fares are grossly overpriced.

If the lowest fares were available to walk-on passengers, the public would use the train. Only peak trains should have limited access. The great majority of mainline trains have lots of empty seats.
There is no point having a train to Cork every hour, if you are restricted to the service that you have booked in advance.

When you go by car you can change your plans without penalty, why should rail passengers be restricted?

Give the fare paying public a decent service at reasonable fares, and they will use the railway. Otherwise long distance trains will depend on DSP payments for free travel passengers.

They wouldn't take it just because online fares were offered at ticket office. The public get decent fares but what's needed is capital spend to improve the service.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

it's actually not a case in point. it has a decent catchment and is more competitive (well was more competitive) then the road option. but frankly we are simply going over old ground.

Its catchment area is appalling. The report shows it. Anyway I've had enough of your because-I-say-it-is garbage so back on my ignore list you go.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Its catchment area is appalling. The report shows it. Anyway I've had enough of your because-I-say-it-is garbage so back on my ignore list you go.

it isn't. a report with an agenda means jot. i know the area very well so my point is based on actual experience. bye now.

XPS_Zero

End you obviously don't understand how science works

Overall data showing the big picture through objective facts is superior to anecdotal information. Though that doesn't seem to stop people. You could see it in the free travel debate last week with drivers insisting people with "nutin wrong with dum" have passes and "75% of the passengers have them"

We don't need to rely on their anecdotal pub talk estimates we can check the objective data which will tell us 25% (not 75) have passes and that triple medical certifications required so you can't get one with "nutin wrong with ye". Anecdotal experience is a terrible guide to any topic
That's why scientific studies and govt reports get made up

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

End you obviously don't understand how science works

Overall data showing the big picture through objective facts is superior to anecdotal information. Though that doesn't seem to stop people. You could see it in the free travel debate last week with drivers insisting people with "nutin wrong with dum" have passes and "75% of the passengers have them"

We don't need to rely on their anecdotal pub talk estimates we can check the objective data which will tell us 25% (not 75) have passes and that triple medical certifications required so you can't get one with "nutin wrong with ye". Anecdotal experience is a terrible guide to any topic
That's why scientific studies and govt reports get made up

What has this to do with 1st class on the Dublin/Cork line.?

Shn99

Sorry for resurrecting the thread but im considering trying the Citygold product from Heuston-Limk Jctn. Is anything complimentary apart from the paper?(tea/coffee ect)

XPS_Zero

Paper and the tea/coffee, that's it. You pay for the food (though the tea/coffee being free is more than Enterprise).

Again a question of how much peace and quiet means to you, you don't have to eat on the way but I like to have the laptop out watching TV and have a lunch/breakfast/dinner, by the time you're having your after dinner tea and muffin the journeys half way over the time flys.

I'm sure a lot of people would say reading a book in standard will get you the same effect, but that's IF you don't have a pack of screeching drunk football fans, teens with loud phones or hysterical kids.
That does not bother some people - but long journeys with all that is torture for me so I'm willing to pay the extra

bk

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm sure a lot of people would say reading a book in standard will get you the same effect, but that's IF you don't have a pack of screeching drunk football fans, teens with loud phones or hysterical kids.
That does not bother some people - but long journeys with all that is torture for me so I'm willing to pay the extra

You can easily watch a movie on a laptop in standard class too, I did for years. Sure, you probably can't spread out as much as you can in first class, but still plenty of space.

Sound cancelling headphones, like those from Bose are a most if you travel frequently on either trains, planes or coaches. They really help block out all the nonsense and allow you to focus on your movie and the time absolutely flies by.

I never did see any screeching drunk football fans on this particular route when I use to take every second weekend. Though I stopped taking it 7 years ago (changed to GoBE/Aircoach) so maybe it has changed since then. At the time it was just the usual quiet frequent college students and young professionals going home for the weekend.

trellheim

Much of the time due to the vagaries of scheduling not all Dublin Cork trains have a first class; you can see which ones in the schedule . This should not be the case; all of the route should be a consistent product but IE havent brought all the carriages back into service yet ( anyone know if /when this is supposed to happen, tbh I thought it would at over Xmas to go fully locohauled )

Yggr of Asgard

Shn99 wrote: »

Sorry for resurrecting the thread but im considering trying the Citygold product from Heuston-Limk Jctn. Is anything complimentary apart from the paper?(tea/coffee ect)

Sometimes you get a free orange juice/apple juice/water when the train leaves the station followed by a free tea/coffee and on some trains also a free paper. Recently they also started handing out free hot towels when they finished with the food service on morning routes.

Otherwise, all you get for the 25€ extra is a wider seat and a desk lamp.

On certain morning services it's full and other times it's completely empty.

Also if you travel on Sundays you might only get a free coffee from the trolly (instant) rather than the French press one.

lawred2

Wrex wrote: »

Hi

I am thinking of going to Cork for the day on a Saturday, and I can get a return to Cork in 1st class for around 75 EUR as compared to 30 in standard.

Is it worth the extra money?

What are you expecting? A butler and silver service?

Because you'll be disappointed.

XPS_Zero

lawred2 wrote: »

What are you expecting? A butler and silver service?

Because you'll be disappointed.

Well I don't think anyone expects an unrealistic strawman scenario - no

Quackster

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Well I don't think anyone expects an unrealistic strawman scenario - no

Well in fairness it doesn't really live up to the term 'first class' much of the time in that, on many services, the additional perks are non-existent.

Main benefits are quietness & extra space, when traveling on a busy service, and in-seat dining (if you want it) on the services that actually offer that.

Another thing many people don't know, you can travel in first class for a lot less than a standard first class ticket!

For instance, booking online on Irish Rail, a Dublin-Cork first class ticket is €63.99 (the standard-class flex fare of €38.99 plus €25 first-class upgrade).

However, if you don't need a flex fare, you can buy the €19.99 low fare (if available) and then separately buy a seat-only first-class upgrade for €25, getting your first-class ticket for only €44.99. You can even wait until you're on the train to buy the first-class upgrade so you can see how busy the train is before deciding whether upgrading is worthwhile.

XPS_Zero

Quackster wrote: »

Well in fairness it doesn't really live up to the term 'first class' much of the time in that, on many services, the additional perks are non-existent.

I agree - but the idea of silverware is absurd, and it DOES have it's own dedicated staff.

They should advertise the on board upgrade a lot more - they'd get way more money out of it. All they'd need to do is add in a few more key perks