Irish Rail first class Dublin-Cork, is it worth it?

Wrex

Hi

I am thinking of going to Cork for the day on a Saturday, and I can get a return to Cork in 1st class for around 75 EUR as compared to 30 in standard.

Is it worth the extra money?

Del.Monte

NO.

end of the road

sadly the days of proper first class on the railway are gone in this country, replaced by the up and coming modern british version of bargain basement but overpriced.

hytrogen

Some would argue it's like asking do I fly Ryanair or Aerlingus on the same route except they're using the same bus..
I say splash out and enjoy it

thomond2006

I've never used it but the price difference is a lot for a 2h15-2h40 journey.
http://www.irishrail.ie/fares-and-tickets/first-class-travel-1

If you're in a quiet carriage you will have plenty legroom.

CeannairBluexx

I would. Most trains no, but the green ones with the sloped nose (you can tell I'm not a train enthusiast!!) - first class there is quite good.

coylemj

Haven't done it in several years. When they finished the M8, it more or less swung it back in favour of the car as I could then do the trip in under 3 hours. The main benefit of first class on that trip as I found it was getting served breakfast at your seat instead of having to go to the buffet car. If you're travelling alone and you have a laptop, it's a big benefit. The procedure was that as soon as the train pulled out of Heuston, the catering staff came into the first class carriage and took orders for breakfast which they then served maybe 10-15 minutes later at which point the buffet car was thrown open for the rest of the passengers. I think they gave the first class passengers a 'free' copy of a newspaper when boarding though a lot of the time I'd be last minute and the papers would be all gone.

XPS_Zero

The main difference is that but for some key times you will have the FC carriage to yourself or just 1-2 others

That's why I pay for it for long journeys or did when I was working. THE QUIET
On many Belfast and Cork services you've drunk and very loud groups of people raving on often in that coarse NI accent. Or just ordinary people if the carriage is full having 10 different loud convos around you I am willing to pay just for the quiet and peace.

There are other little perks:
•Papers included
•Refills of tea coffee included (all free on Cork FC)
•Hot food served to seat
•Little extras like towels or glasses of OJ
•Far more comfortable seats that recline

But biggest difference is the peace and quiet

I also find that because it's more comfortable the journey seems to go faster.

There's the various first classes in the attached photos
They're all great except the ICR first class with the black leather seats called "premier" which is EXACTLY the same as normal ICR but for faux leather seats and a lamp whereas as you can see the MarkIV and Enterprise first classes have a different design altogether from other carriages and a totally different ambiance. Premier has a similar cold bare bones vibe to standard ICR

You won't run into a group of drunk people clutching cans of Heineken singing football songs or two teenagers who haven't heard about the existence of earphones and are playing music on phone speakers IMO that's the benefit of first class. It's up to you if you personally care ENOUGH about that and the smaller differences for it to be worth the extra price.

Elemonator

It's cheaper to fly to Cork these days (if there is still flights). It's true for Kerry though.

Walter H Price

Elemonator wrote: »

It's cheaper to fly to Cork these days (if there is still flights). It's true for Kerry though.

getting married Kerry next November flights €40 return and 40 minits each way so definitely the better option

Get upgraded to 1st class every now and again travel to Cork regular with work , is ok wouldnt pay the €75 for it tbh , seats are a bit wider and comfier other then tat its the same

5rtytry56

I travelled first class from Houston in 2015.

Before the train pulled out of Houston station , some other passenger did a huge number 2 in the toilet in the next carriage to the first class carriages.
The whiff of this lasted in the first class carriage for a good half hour afterwards.

Del.Monte

5rtytry56 wrote: »

I travelled first class from Houston in 2015.

Before the train pulled out of Houston station , some other passenger did a huge number 2 in the toilet in the next carriage to the first class carriages.
The whiff of this lasted in the first class carriage for a good half hour afterwards.

TMI!

Del.Monte

Elemonator wrote: »

It's cheaper to fly to Cork these days (if there is still flights). It's true for Kerry though.

Are there still flights - I'm pretty sure they were axed and rightly so.

Walter H Price

Del.Monte wrote: »

Are there still flights - I'm pretty sure they were axed and rightly so.

not to cork but there's 1 a day to and from Kerry

The Cork flight was a gift for anyone doing it regular the train is an overpriced pox

Del.Monte

@ XPS_Zero

Thanks for posting those pics - I've never seen a 1st class 22000 as I mainly use the Rosslare/Dublin line. Miserable looking and no more than I would expect from CIE.

I agree with most of your post - except your racist (?) point about our Nordie cousins.

The main reason that I have used 1st class is for peace and quiet and meal service, but sadly not in recent years.

hytrogen

5rtytry56 wrote:

Before the train pulled out of Houston station , some other passenger did a huge number 2 in the toilet in the next carriage to the first class carriages. The whiff of this lasted in the first class carriage for a good half hour afterwards.

Whoever smelt it dealt it :P

XPS_Zero

Del.Monte wrote: »

@ XPS_Zero

Thanks for posting those pics - I've never seen a 1st class 22000 as I mainly use the Rosslare/Dublin line. Miserable looking and no more than I would expect from CIE.

I agree with most of your post - except your racist (?) point about our Nordie cousins.

The main reason that I have used 1st class is for peace and quiet and meal service, but sadly not in recent years.

I visit the north a lot and have an odd like for NI
Well others call it odd "who likes the north? Even northerners don't like the north" but I do, and I find their terms like "wee" adorable
But our cusons have possibly the most irritating accent when drunk their normal accent is blown up

Here's some more 22000
It's not used as FC paid on any other routes unless it's filling in for Enterprise they use the carriages for their on board shop on some routes and anyone can sit in FC BUT everyone's afraid to thibking it's reserved so I often get it to myself!
It's v nice to see the premier logo on a door of an ICR as it's more comfy but NOT a real FC worth nearly 100quid

Here's some more pics

questionmark?

Walter H Price wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Are there still flights - I'm pretty sure they were axed and rightly so.

not to cork but there's 1 a day to and from Kerry

The Cork flight was a gift for anyone doing it regular the train is an overpriced pox

Two flights a day each way. Around €80 return standard price.

Quackster

Wrex wrote: »

Hi

I am thinking of going to Cork for the day on a Saturday, and I can get a return to Cork in 1st class for around 75 EUR as compared to 30 in standard.

Is it worth the extra money?

The following advice applies to the Mark 4 trains that operate the majority of Dublin/Cork services. You know you'll be on a Mark 4 when you go to book your seat and carriage B is unavailable (as it's the buffet car).

Book a standard ticket in carriage E - that's the quietest of the reserved carriages. If, when you board, E is not to your liking (busy, loud passengers etc), walk down to the last carriage at the Cork end of the train - it's the designated 'quiet' carriage and always the least busy as it's all unreserved seating and all the lazy folk don't make it that far.

Quackster

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Here's some more 22000
It's not used as FC paid on any other routes unless it's filling in for Enterprise they use the carriages for their on board shop on some routes and anyone can sit in FC BUT everyone's afraid to thibking it's reserved so I often get it to myself!
It's v nice to see the premier logo on a door of an ICR as it's more comfy but NOT a real FC worth nearly 100quid

Here's some more pics

It is designated Premier on Dublin/Cork and Dublin/Tralee ICR services. Is it not used on Dublin/Galway or other routes?

Agreed it's not worth paying for unless you need to escape the other carriages. In which case you could buy an upgrade on the train from the ticket-checker.

5rtytry56

Quackster wrote: »

................ and all the lazy folk don't make it that far.

or more aptly put: ".............and all the gob$sh!terry don't make it that far. "

Also folks....

take note and important date for such irish rail 'customers' is coming up shortly:

paddy's day in March. Might be hard enough to find a quiet spot on any irish rail train around this time.

XPS_Zero

Quackster wrote: »

It is designated Premier on Dublin/Cork and Dublin/Tralee ICR services. Is it not used on Dublin/Galway or other routes?

Agreed it's not worth paying for unless you need to escape the other carriages. In which case you could buy an upgrade on the train from the ticket-checker.

It's used on Dublin Galway but you don't have to pay

Dr_Bill

1st Class on Irish Rail? Well the standard return from Cork to Dublin is €76.48. I can fly Ryanair from Dublin to Edinburgh for €29.98. I wonder if Irish Rail are going along to this year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival? because they are hilarious they crack me up with their pricing.

devnull

Dr_Bill wrote: »

1st Class on Irish Rail? Well the standard return from Cork to Dublin is €76.48. I can fly Ryanair from Dublin to Edinburgh for €29.98. I wonder if Irish Rail are going along to this year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival? because they are hilarious they crack me up with their pricing.

So you're comparing an on the day train ticket with a booked in advance plane ticket?

I'm no fan of Irish Rail but it isn't a fair comparison.

HivemindXX

devnull wrote: »

So you're comparing an on the day train ticket with a booked in advance plane ticket?

I'm no fan of Irish Rail but it isn't a fair comparison.

Dr. Bill should totally use Ryanair to Cork though. Oh wait. You can't. So the comparison doesn't really work on that level either.

Note the train fare for London to Edinburgh return tomorrow is £102. A Ryanair return flight from London to Edinburgh today is €74, on Friday that goes up to €236.

There are plenty of reasons to criticise Irish Rail. Comparing their walk up fares to the price for a flight booked well in advance to a completely different city just makes you look stupid.

kingshankly

Dr_Bill wrote: »

1st Class on Irish Rail? Well the standard return from Cork to Dublin is €76.48. I can fly Ryanair from Dublin to Edinburgh for €29.98. I wonder if Irish Rail are going along to this year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival? because they are hilarious they crack me up with their pricing.

Why don't you compare a walk up price plane ticket

cee_jay

5rtytry56 wrote: »

I travelled first class from Houston in 2015.

Before the train pulled out of Houston station , some other passenger did a huge number 2 in the toilet in the next carriage to the first class carriages.
The whiff of this lasted in the first class carriage for a good half hour afterwards.

This, and worse, has happened to me in the standard class carriages on Irish Rail. Recently the 2 toilets on either end of the carriage were unusable (what has been seen cannot be unseen).

Quackster wrote: »

The following advice applies to the Mark 4 trains that operate the majority of Dublin/Cork services. You know you'll be on a Mark 4 when you go to book your seat and carriage B is unavailable (as it's the buffet car).

Book a standard ticket in carriage E - that's the quietest of the reserved carriages. If, when you board, E is not to your liking (busy, loud passengers etc), walk down to the last carriage at the Cork end of the train - it's the designated 'quiet' carriage and always the least busy as it's all unreserved seating and all the lazy folk don't make it that far.

I always go for the Quiet carriage (the very last carriage on the train - usually G) when boarding at Limerick Junction travelling to Dublin Heuston. However, most people ignore this quiet zone - I have been in this carriage with people playing music without headphones on their phone :mad: However, it is normally empty with a handful of other passengers.

This is the 1st class offering on the service:


This seat is reclinable - the seat pad and back both recline into a comfortable position. The carriage is a lot quieter than the others on the train. You will get a free copy of the Irish Examiner.
I was disappointed over Christmas to have booked this return, and on the return journey found myself on the Premier Service carriage. There is no comparison between the two.

n97 mini

devnull wrote: »

So you're comparing an on the day train ticket with a booked in advance plane ticket?

I'm no fan of Irish Rail but it isn't a fair comparison.

I agree, but the walk up price (sort of) with FR isn't too bad. DUB-EDI tomorrow for €74 out, and max €46 coming back.

bk

How about this for a comparison. The most expensive walk up train fare * in the Netherlands is €26! €26 is the max, you can travel the entire length of the network on it!

* Actually all fares are walk up as their is no pre-booking.

High capacity Double Decker trains, the entire train network electrified. The quietest rural lines have one to two trains per hour, rural lines 2 to 4 trains per hour and the business lines 10 trains per hour.

Now that is how you run a train network. A fast, frequent, cheap and very easy to use train service, encourages very high passenger numbers.

Quackster

bk wrote: »

How about this for a comparison. The most expensive walk up train fare * in the Netherlands is €26! €26 is the max, you can travel the entire length of the network on it!

* Actually all fares are walk up as their is no pre-booking.

High capacity Double Decker trains, the entire train network electrified. The quietest rural lines have one to two trains per hour, rural lines 2 to 4 trains per hour and the business lines 10 trains per hour.

Now that is how you run a train network. A fast, frequent, cheap and very easy to use train service, encourages very high passenger numbers.

In fairness though, comparing Ireland with the Netherlands is comparing apples and oranges in terms of topography, population density and distribution.

That said, I think we can all be in agreement that public transport is substantially underfunded in this country.

Del.Monte

bk wrote: »

How about this for a comparison. The most expensive walk up train fare * in the Netherlands is €26! €26 is the max, you can travel the entire length of the network on it!

* Actually all fares are walk up as their is no pre-booking.

High capacity Double Decker trains, the entire train network electrified. The quietest rural lines have one to two trains per hour, rural lines 2 to 4 trains per hour and the business lines 10 trains per hour.

Now that is how you run a train network. A fast, frequent, cheap and very easy to use train service, encourages very high passenger numbers.

Ah but what about the hundreds of clerical staff involved in CIE's current, overly complicated marketing, timetabling and ticket selling nonsense, not to mention the expensive ticket vending machines, ticket office staff and travelling ticket sellers - there wouldn't be any jobs for them in a streamlined system. And Barry Kenny and his other spin doctors would have even less work to do as there would be less complaints.

Jamie2k9

bk wrote: »

How about this for a comparison. The most expensive walk up train fare * in the Netherlands is €26! €26 is the max, you can travel the entire length of the network on it!

* Actually all fares are walk up as their is no pre-booking.

High capacity Double Decker trains, the entire train network electrified. The quietest rural lines have one to two trains per hour, rural lines 2 to 4 trains per hour and the business lines 10 trains per hour.

Now that is how you run a train network. A fast, frequent, cheap and very easy to use train service, encourages very high passenger numbers.

and you would be the very first person to post on here about IE not providing the adequate capacity.

Online booking is the way to go, majority safe a few quid, once enhanced online services are launched this month it will make it better.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

and you would be the very first person to post on here about IE not providing the adequate capacity.

Online booking is the way to go, majority safe a few quid, once enhanced online services are launched this month it will make it better.

it's only the way to go for railways that operate along the british model of low capacity and inflexibility, and even that model is slowly coming to an end over there all though they have a long way to go. for modern european railways that operate high capacity and which are flexible, online booking and walk up are left to the customer to decide rather then 1 favoured over the other.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

it's only the way to go for railways that operate along the british model of low capacity and inflexibility, and even that model is slowly coming to an end over there all though they have a long way to go. for modern european railways that operate high capacity and which are flexible, online booking and walk up are left to the customer to decide rather then 1 favoured over the other.

Online is way better particularly for capacity, schedule planning and so on. The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

dudara

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah but what about the hundreds of clerical staff involved in CIE's current, overly complicated marketing, timetabling and ticket selling nonsense, not to mention the expensive ticket vending machines, ticket office staff and travelling ticket sellers - there wouldn't be any jobs for them in a streamlined system. And Barry Kenny and his other spin doctors would have even less work to do as there would be less complaints.

I don't know about back office staffing, but the Dutch rail service has a huge number of people out on the platforms, in the stations assisting people. It's a superb service. They have a fully integrated electronic card for travelling and the trains are pretty reliable.

n97 mini

Quackster wrote: »

That said, I think we can all be in agreement that public transport is substantially underfunded in this country.

A lot of rail lines are beyond funding. Money isn't the problem. It's lack of population density to use them.

bk

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Online is way better particularly for capacity, schedule planning and so on. The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

as i said, only for a railway that relies on inflexibility and low capacity. IE managed planning and scheduling and capacity long before online booking. now they can't manage capacity because consecutive bosses who happen to be from uk railways have made our railway inflexible.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

as i said, only for a railway that relies on inflexibility and low capacity. IE managed planning and scheduling and capacity long before online booking. now they can't manage capacity because consecutive bosses who happen to be from uk railways have made our railway inflexible.

I wouldn't say it's a low capacity, but just avoids the scenes for example that were repeated over recent years.

Cheap fares in Netherlands are because taxpayers foot a bigger share of the bill, I don't for a minute believe that a heavily subsidized railway is the way to go.

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

Like I said, taxpayers are paying for this in Europe. Yes Goverment need to increase capital spending in Irish Rail however I don't believe slashing fares is a way to operate a business either.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

A lot of rail lines are beyond funding. Money isn't the problem. It's lack of population density to use them.

incorrect. all lines have a population density to use them. deliberate running down and underfunding however have saw to a demise and will see to more demises.

bk wrote: »

Yup I actually agree with end of the road on that. The UK/Irish model of the train being some fancy, expensive service, with first class, etc. is pretty laughable in this day and age.

What it needs to be is fast, regular, consistent, cheap and easy to use. It needs to get away from this old fashioned mindset and instead admit what it is, basically a high capacity bus service.

not quite what i was thinking but i would agree with much of what you said. it needs to stop pretending to be something it isn't. however, i do believe that it simply being a high capacity bus service might not help long distance rail long term. i believe that some of the old ideas are actually what the railway needs back, but it needs to be done right. so, a proper first class, a high quality onboard environment. being user friendly regular and fast. ideally cheep to use as well. we can have a railway that can be good value but high quality as well, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's a low capacity, but just avoids the scenes for example that were repeated over recent years.

Cheap fares in Netherlands are because taxpayers foot a bigger share of the bill, I don't for a minute believe that a heavily subsidized railway is the way to go.



Like I said, taxpayers are paying for this in Europe. Yes Goverment need to increase capital spending in Irish Rail however I don't believe slashing fares is a way to operate a business either.

maybe not, but surely it could be tried. if it genuinely doesn't work, fair enough. but if it gets more on to the service then surely that is what we want.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect. all lines have a population density to use them. deliberate running down and underfunding however have saw to a demise and will see to more demises.

People have to live within the catchment area of a station for the train to be usuable. With such dispersed rural populations in Ireland many do not live close enough. The Waterford-Rosslare line is a case in point, with a population density of only 3 people per km.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

People have to live within the catchment area of a station for the train to be usuable. With such dispersed rural populations in Ireland many do not live close enough. The Waterford-Rosslare line is a case in point, with a population density of only 3 people per km.

it's actually not a case in point. it has a decent catchment and is more competitive (well was more competitive) then the road option. but frankly we are simply going over old ground.

tabbey

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The majority of people don't suddenly decide I'm going to take the train to Dublin hours before they actually do.....

The majority don't take the train !!

They go by car because the rail fares are grossly overpriced.

If the lowest fares were available to walk-on passengers, the public would use the train. Only peak trains should have limited access. The great majority of mainline trains have lots of empty seats.
There is no point having a train to Cork every hour, if you are restricted to the service that you have booked in advance.

When you go by car you can change your plans without penalty, why should rail passengers be restricted?

Give the fare paying public a decent service at reasonable fares, and they will use the railway. Otherwise long distance trains will depend on DSP payments for free travel passengers.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

The majority don't take the train !!

They go by car because the rail fares are grossly overpriced.

If the lowest fares were available to walk-on passengers, the public would use the train. Only peak trains should have limited access. The great majority of mainline trains have lots of empty seats.
There is no point having a train to Cork every hour, if you are restricted to the service that you have booked in advance.

When you go by car you can change your plans without penalty, why should rail passengers be restricted?

Give the fare paying public a decent service at reasonable fares, and they will use the railway. Otherwise long distance trains will depend on DSP payments for free travel passengers.

They wouldn't take it just because online fares were offered at ticket office. The public get decent fares but what's needed is capital spend to improve the service.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

it's actually not a case in point. it has a decent catchment and is more competitive (well was more competitive) then the road option. but frankly we are simply going over old ground.

Its catchment area is appalling. The report shows it. Anyway I've had enough of your because-I-say-it-is garbage so back on my ignore list you go.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

Its catchment area is appalling. The report shows it. Anyway I've had enough of your because-I-say-it-is garbage so back on my ignore list you go.

it isn't. a report with an agenda means jot. i know the area very well so my point is based on actual experience. bye now.

XPS_Zero

End you obviously don't understand how science works

Overall data showing the big picture through objective facts is superior to anecdotal information. Though that doesn't seem to stop people. You could see it in the free travel debate last week with drivers insisting people with "nutin wrong with dum" have passes and "75% of the passengers have them"

We don't need to rely on their anecdotal pub talk estimates we can check the objective data which will tell us 25% (not 75) have passes and that triple medical certifications required so you can't get one with "nutin wrong with ye". Anecdotal experience is a terrible guide to any topic
That's why scientific studies and govt reports get made up

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

End you obviously don't understand how science works

Overall data showing the big picture through objective facts is superior to anecdotal information. Though that doesn't seem to stop people. You could see it in the free travel debate last week with drivers insisting people with "nutin wrong with dum" have passes and "75% of the passengers have them"

We don't need to rely on their anecdotal pub talk estimates we can check the objective data which will tell us 25% (not 75) have passes and that triple medical certifications required so you can't get one with "nutin wrong with ye". Anecdotal experience is a terrible guide to any topic
That's why scientific studies and govt reports get made up

What has this to do with 1st class on the Dublin/Cork line.?

Shn99

Sorry for resurrecting the thread but im considering trying the Citygold product from Heuston-Limk Jctn. Is anything complimentary apart from the paper?(tea/coffee ect)

XPS_Zero

Paper and the tea/coffee, that's it. You pay for the food (though the tea/coffee being free is more than Enterprise).

Again a question of how much peace and quiet means to you, you don't have to eat on the way but I like to have the laptop out watching TV and have a lunch/breakfast/dinner, by the time you're having your after dinner tea and muffin the journeys half way over the time flys.

I'm sure a lot of people would say reading a book in standard will get you the same effect, but that's IF you don't have a pack of screeching drunk football fans, teens with loud phones or hysterical kids.
That does not bother some people - but long journeys with all that is torture for me so I'm willing to pay the extra

bk

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm sure a lot of people would say reading a book in standard will get you the same effect, but that's IF you don't have a pack of screeching drunk football fans, teens with loud phones or hysterical kids.
That does not bother some people - but long journeys with all that is torture for me so I'm willing to pay the extra

You can easily watch a movie on a laptop in standard class too, I did for years. Sure, you probably can't spread out as much as you can in first class, but still plenty of space.

Sound cancelling headphones, like those from Bose are a most if you travel frequently on either trains, planes or coaches. They really help block out all the nonsense and allow you to focus on your movie and the time absolutely flies by.

I never did see any screeching drunk football fans on this particular route when I use to take every second weekend. Though I stopped taking it 7 years ago (changed to GoBE/Aircoach) so maybe it has changed since then. At the time it was just the usual quiet frequent college students and young professionals going home for the weekend.