Will Sligo Services be Stopping at Broombridge?

ClovenHoof

Irish rail should do this. I think a lot of people would find the transfer very useful. Especially when the campus at Grangegorman gets going. For people going to the Mater too. It'll be very handy.

I know IE don't understand connections, but this will make sense.

Elemonator

Ah sure, at least giz a pay rise first

Del.Monte

When I saw the thread I thought somebody was taking up my suggestion of terminating all inter-city trains at outer suburban stations and transferring to commuter services.

n97 mini

Del.Monte wrote: »

When I saw the thread I thought somebody was taking up my suggestion of terminating all inter-city trains at outer suburban stations and transferring to commuter services.

Outer suburban? It's as far out as Sydney Parade.

riffmongous

Ah Broombridge, that takes me back..fires, horses and dirtbikes on the platforms

Infini

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah Broombridge, that takes me back..fires, horses and dirtbikes on the platforms

Nah never beat the time a horse raced a train from broomer to o reillys.

tabbey

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah Broombridge, that takes me back..fires, horses and dirtbikes on the platforms

For many years the city end ofthe down platform had the footprint of a burnt motorbike cut into the tarmac.

Jem72

This would be extremely useful. You'd be able to do a cross-platform transfer to avoid the walk into the city centre or on to the south city centre or even Sandyford. The commuting potential is fantastic - Mullingar to Sandyford would even be viable at that.

But I'd be quite surprised if it happened. The usefulness of Luas BXD will end up seriously diminished because of lack of connections and in particular lack of fare integration. Sad really.

Hilly Bill

Just change at Maynooth.

MrMorooka

Jem72 wrote: »

But I'd be quite surprised if it happened. The usefulness of Luas BXD will end up seriously diminished because of lack of connections and in particular lack of fare integration. Sad really.

Very true. The main problem I see is the frequency(or lack thereof) on the Maynooth line will really hamper the connection. The reality of trying to arrive at Broombridge in time for an hourly train on a tram that can get caught in traffic etc will be very offputting. Maynooth line really needs to electrified and brought up to a DART-style 15-minute frequency to make the most out of BXD.

As for the anti-social aspect, Broombridge is an awful lot better these days, but we have seen nothing yet, Dominic Luas stop is going to have a lot of problems.

Jem72

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just change at Maynooth.

Changing at Maynooth would add 25 minutes to the journey assuming there is a stopping train leaving 5 minutes after the intercity and would involve crossing quite a steep footbridge in Maynooth.

Given that intercity trains are generally crawling along stuck behind another service at that point, stopping at Broombridge will make practically zero difference to the end-to-end journey time. As a Sligo-line commuter who would not use this facility to change as I work close to Connolly, I would not object at all to the train making a stop at Broombridge both ways to enable transfers.

n97 mini

Really all interchange stations should have stops. Maynooth, Clonsilla, Broombridge, Drumcondra.

uck51js9zml2yt

I hope not..Broombridge is bad enough without culchies landing there as well;)

tabbey

I suspect if the Green line extension to Broombridge proves popular, there will be demands for longer distance trains to stop there. It is not as bad stopping there as elsewhere, because trains move slowly being close to the sharp curve at Liffey Jn.

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just change at Maynooth.

2 changes when 1 will do.

MGWR

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Irish rail should do this. I think a lot of people would find the transfer very useful. Especially when the campus at Grangegorman gets going. For people going to the Mater too. It'll be very handy.

I know IE don't understand connections, but this will make sense.

No. Slowing down intercity service never makes sense. Even if one is looking to connect to a future light rail service that nobody will want to ride due to on-board conditions.

Then again, the BXD Luas does not make a shred of sense either. Things would have been better if the Luas Green Line were rebuilt as metro including an underground connector to a restored Broadstone as a commuter/intercity railway station. But things even being as they are or will be, the Sligo trains still ought not stop at Broombridge.

Del.Monte

@ MGWR

I tend to agree with you and would have preferred to see the Broadstone/Liffey Jn alignment used by heavy rail and, as I have predicted elsewhere, the cross-city Luas will be a playground for junkies and get caught in traffic collisions just as the Red Line already does. Plus, if there was any case for it - it should have turned right at the bottom of Dawson Street and extended to Connolly via Pearse Station.

The_Wanderer

This actually a very good idea (and I wouldn't always agree with clovenhoof's posts!). It has a lot of benefits especially if going to the south west of the City Centre (St. Stephen's Green area etc). Something I would like to see happen.

Remember back in the day the Rosslare service went non-stop Connolly to Bray. Then Tara St, Pearse & Dun-Laoghaire appeared in one of the mid 2000 timetables to welcome applause. The idea of the DL stop was for Ferry and a major bus termination point. The ferry option didn't work as history shows, but the bus connections to south and west Dublin are still there.

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

2 changes when 1 will do.

Change in Connolly then.

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Change in Connolly then.

Connections CIE style. You've been there too long.

Del.Monte

The_Wanderer wrote: »

This actually a very good idea (and I wouldn't always agree with clovenhoof's posts!). It has a lot of benefits especially if going to the south west of the City Centre (St. Stephen's Green area etc). Something I would like to see happen.

Remember back in the day the Rosslare service went non-stop Connolly to Bray. Then Tara St, Pearse & Dun-Laoghaire appeared in one of the mid 2000 timetables to welcome applause. The idea of the DL stop was for Ferry and a major bus termination point. The ferry option didn't work as history shows, but the bus connections to south and west Dublin are still there.

From memory, the pre-recorded message on the 22000s still suggests that passengers de-train at Dun Laoghaire for ferries. :rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

Perhaps the 05.45 and 16.00 which serve Drumcondra should also serve the stop which gives people beyond Longford a connection and both return Longford services also stop already. Then if demand is there maybe a lunchtime service in each direction but no need for every train to stop. The vast majority of traffic would be catered for.

Jamie2k9

Del.Monte wrote: »

From memory, the pre-recorded message on the 22000s still suggests that passengers de-train at Dun Laoghaire for ferries. :rolleyes:

In Waterford we have been waiting almost 9 years for the "automatic exit barriers operating at this station ".

The_Wanderer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

In Waterford we have been waiting almost 9 years for the "automatic exit barriers operating at this station ".

Add Portlaoise to that as well. I do remember sending off a "suggestion" that this be removed. Still waiting......

goingnowhere

Del.Monte wrote: »

From memory, the pre-recorded message on the 22000s still suggests that passengers de-train at Dun Laoghaire for ferries. :rolleyes:

Taken out more than a year ago

Del.Monte

goingnowhere wrote: »

Taken out more than a year ago

I was on a train within the last couple of months that had the message - just can't remember what class of a yoke it was - could even have been a DART.

tabbey

In 2010, the year of two winters, I was on the road at (the unopened) Kishogue station hoping to get photos of trains in the snow. I was stunned when I heard "Please stand behind the yellow line, train now approaching".
Over six years later we are still waiting for the station to open, do ghost passengers still hear this announcement? or have the speakers died?.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

In 2010, the year of two winters, I was on the road at (the unopened) Kishogue station hoping to get photos of trains in the snow. I was stunned when I heard "Please stand behind the yellow line, train now approaching".
Over six years later we are still waiting for the station to open, do ghost passengers still hear this announcement? or have the speakers died?.

Unless they have been vandalized (wouldn't surprise me as there has been issues around there) they should be in working order and hear the same announcement.

Jem72

Ordinarily, I would agree that stopping intercity trains is a bad idea, but there are numerous reasons why Broombridge is an exception

1. The connectivity from Broombridge will be among the best in the city giving very frequent one-change connections to important destinations including O'Connell Street, St. Stephen's Green, Docklands, Dundrum and Sandyford.
2. Relatively few people find Connolly itself a useful destination. The utility of going direct to Connolly is limited to the connectivity offered from Connolly.
3. The time penalty of a stop at Broombridge is minimal since there is a slow curve immediately after it and many inbound trains will be stuck behind a Maynooth service here anyway.

The journey time to the north city centre will be about equal (but a lot drier) from a change to Luas as from going to Connolly and walking. For everywhere else it will be far quicker to change at Broombridge.

If this were to be tried on a few trains, I'd echo Jamie2k9's suggestion of having the 0545 and the 1600 stop, but would also add the 1705 as this is an important commuter service for Mullingar and Longford.

ClovenHoof

MGWR wrote: »

No. Slowing down intercity service never makes sense.

So we should run the services from Sligo to Connolly without a single stop in between? Why not take this to the maximum potential then?

If anything, the connectivity would boost passenger numbers. I would reckon that people going from the Sligo services to south side would love this option. Considering the vastly greater population of the Green Line catchment area.

The DART only serves people on one side of the line and seagulls and fish on the other.

MGWR

ClovenHoof wrote: »

So we should run the services from Sligo to Connolly without a single stop in between? Why not take this to the maximum potential then?

If anything, the connectivity would boost passenger numbers. I would reckon that people going from the Sligo services to south side would love this option. Considering the vastly greater population of the Green Line catchment area.

The DART only serves people on one side of the line and seagulls and fish on the other.

Mere connectivity is not key to passenger numbers; reliability and time-competitiveness of service is. Start slowing down trains and interfering with their timeliness and those trains bleed passengers. And that's not mentioning the lack of speed that a north-south Luas is going to exhibit inherently, which would not be in existence in a metro line that would bypass the surface traffic of all kinds.

This identified (herein) possible market would need to be studied, especially as to how much demand there would be, especially since there would be pre-existing connecting service at Maynooth, and how disrupting the timetable would affect all trains on this service for a questionably-sized segment of this market.

pillphil

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Add Portlaoise to that as well. I do remember sending off a "suggestion" that this be removed. Still waiting......

Sligo too. Always laugh...

n97 mini

MGWR wrote: »

Mere connectivity is not key to passenger numbers; reliability and time-competitiveness of service is. Start slowing down trains and interfering with their timeliness and those trains bleed passengers.

I don't go for that argument at all. Slowing the journey by 2 mins for 90% of passengers is likely to lose fcuk all. Making the journey painful for the other 10% due to lack of connections is likely to lose more.

ClovenHoof

MGWR wrote: »

Mere connectivity is not key to passenger numbers; reliability and time-competitiveness of service is.

Completely disagree. A rail system should be seen as something of an artery and its volume and health depends on the blood being fed into it by the veins. Broombridge creates one more vein for the health of the overall Sligo rail artery.

Frankly I am amazed how you can't see this and think that a few minute wait at Broombridge to pick up and drop off passengers will cause an emotional and psychological crisis of some sort for the current passengers.

I think you are confusing CIE Trade Union issues with public transport passenger dynamics in this regard.

L1011

If the cash is put in for a requisite increase in line speeds and faster running time to compensate I don't see an issue

metrovick001

L1011 wrote: »

If the cash is put in for a requisite increase in line speeds and faster running time to compensate I don't see an issue

LOL - A yes minister response.
Never gonna happen unfortunately.
Not stopping at Broombridge would be a standard CIE /GSR attitude - not our trams.

Del.Monte

CIE don't do connectivity.

Mycroft H

Some Sligo - Dub services used to stop at Drumcondra on the way in. Broombridge wouldn't be too much more to ask for, it's not going to add much more to certain services.

L1011

Mycroft H wrote: »

Some Sligo - Dub services used to stop at Drumcondra on the way in. Broombridge wouldn't be too much more to ask for, it's not going to add much more to certain services.

Used? They still do. Same few.

2m may be "only 2m" but it adds to the death of a thousand cuts. When the Mullingar-Longford DC and the Castlebaldwin upgrades are done, bus speeds will collapse. It has to be cancelled with faster running

Infini

Its an idea of course not a bad one but broomer could use a makeover too if it were to happen. (The actual station itself)

ClovenHoof

Infini2 wrote: »

Its an idea of course not a bad one but broomer could use a makeover too if it were to happen. (The actual station itself)

Why? It's just a cross platform walk to a frequent tram service. The entire nature of the location is changing rapidly.

Jem72

You're not talking about "death by a thousand cuts". You're talking about adding a 2 minute stop to enable you take the Luas right to O'Connell Street. For a huge percentage of passengers that takes at least 10 minutes off the journey to wherever they are going.

The bus is currently an hour longer than the train aside from a couple that don't go via the airport. Until an express route is started that avoids Longford and Mullingar towns, the new roads won't make a lot of difference.

Broombridge is actually a lot tidier than it was a few years ago. They did some sort of community involvement project a couple of years back where they got kids to paint the panels and it seems to have been left alone since. No doubt the 24 hour security from the Luas construction site also helps.

L1011

I don't think you understand what death by a thousand cuts means

Infini

Jem72 wrote: »

Broombridge is actually a lot tidier than it was a few years ago. They did some sort of community involvement project a couple of years back where they got kids to paint the panels and it seems to have been left alone since. No doubt the 24 hour security from the Luas construction site also helps.

What I'm talking about is a proper refurbushment of the place like real seats retarmaced platforms etc, they community thing wasnt bad but theres still plenty of scars in the place from the vermin.

ClovenHoof

Infini2 wrote: »

What I'm talking about is a proper refurbushment of the place like real seats retarmaced platforms etc, they community thing wasnt bad but theres still plenty of scars in the place from the vermin.

Distractive non issue. Get the connections with Luas sorted first, hanging baskets can wait.

cython

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why? It's just a cross platform walk to a frequent tram service. The entire nature of the location is changing rapidly.

Inbound, that may be be true, but of course for each person traveling in by this means, there's a good chance they will return by the same means as well, and that means going from a frequent tram service, albeit one that may be unpredictable in timings due to traffic interactions, to a pretty infrequent train service. If you expect people to use it both ways, then you are asking people to build in extra time to their outbound journeys to account for said varying timings, and spend time waiting at the station if all goes to plan, and Broombridge station could certainly be improved to make this more appealing to people.

ClovenHoof

cython wrote: »

Inbound, that may be be true, but of course for each person traveling in by this means, there's a good chance they will return by the same means as well, and that means going from a frequent tram service, albeit one that may be unpredictable in timings due to traffic interactions, to a pretty infrequent train service. If you expect people to use it both ways, then you are asking people to build in extra time to their outbound journeys to account for said varying timings, and spend time waiting at the station if all goes to plan, and Broombridge station could certainly be improved to make this more appealing to people.

This is must be the only country on earth, where people passionately argue AGAINST public transport connectivity and integration.

n97 mini

L1011 wrote: »

If the cash is put in for a requisite increase in line speeds and faster running time to compensate I don't see an issue

If people are determined to keep journey times down then sacrifice the least busy station if it means gaining an even greater patronage elsewhere by stopping at Broombridge.

Personally I think 2 mins over a 1hr30+ journey adds nothing for most people, and makes the service a lot more attractive for a significant minority.

Jem72

Well personally, as a long-distance commuter I would have no problem with 2 minutes extra in order to enable better connectivity. I would not use it often but the option is nice to have. I take Sligo intercity services 15 times a month.

There is a big difference between adding a stop like Broombridge and a rural stop like Kilcock. Kilcock probably adds 3 or 4 minutes to the journey since it requires slowing down from 60 or 70 mph. Broombridge would take little more than the dwell time as trains never go through there at more than 20 or 30 mph.

cython

ClovenHoof wrote: »

This is must be the only country on earth, where people passionately argue AGAINST public transport connectivity and integration.

If you are suggesting that I am making that argument, you are sorely mistaken. However, the fact remains that while Luas BXD could make inbound journeys much more flexible and straightforward by means of them stopping at Broombridge, it is not so simple for outbound journeys, due to going from a frequent service to very infrequent connections (at best hourly, more commonly every 2 hours). Journeys involving those kind of connections simply have to have contingency time built into them, and Broombridge station could definitely be improved to make the associated waits (for when contingency time turns out to be unnecessary) there less unattractive (it might be a stretch to ever suggest they could be made fully attractive).

n97 mini

cython wrote: »

Broombridge station could definitely be improved to make the associated waits (for when contingency time turns out to be unnecessary) there less unattractive (it might be a stretch to ever suggest they could be made fully attractive).

Put in a bar maybe?