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So I went for another ICE - please don't hate me.
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Oafley Jones wrote: »I don't understand you here as regards "how much worse". That's precisely how it's benchmarked - against all other vehicles. It's often the worst.
I suppose I could throw that back at you and say, what benchmark? What data are you using? Then we'd get into a debate about options and gadgets in the Leaf and the fuel savings etc etc. Its been done a thousand times on here already.
However, this is what I mean...if an equivalent ICE (whatever that is) depreciates 15k in 3 years and the Leaf depreciates 17k then I dont see that as "horrendous". (Im just making up those figure btw). Its bad and worse than ICE but its not significantly worse.... thats the point.
I suppose we'd need more data driven analysis here as we are just talking in a vacuum. We're likely to get a few pages of ping pong out of it!
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And people keep referring to 3 years. Sure, depreciation on an EV is bad over 3 years (when you're coming out of PCP)
But why keep it for 3 years only? Keep it longer and depreciation is far less of an issue. Or if depreciation is bad, buy second hand, the car is very cheap after 3 years so
Problem is that most people seem to get stuck / stung because of the PCP contract they are / were in...My ads on adverts.ie:
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And people keep referring to 3 years. Sure, depreciation on an EV is bad over 3 years (when you're coming out of PCP)
But why keep it for 3 years only? Keep it longer and depreciation is far less of an issue. Or if depreciation is bad, buy second hand, the car is very cheap after 3 years so
Problem is that most people seem to get stuck / stung because of the PCP contract they are / were in...
Well most people don't know or understand the half rule on HP or PCP and how they can exercise that when Depreciation is hurting, then it hurts the bank more than you
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Well most people don't know or understand the half rule on HP or PCP and how they can exercise that when Depreciation is hurting, then it hurts the bank more than you
I've always wondered how the half rule applies to a PCP agreement, would it really be 18 months into a 36 month PCP?0 -
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The problem with current gen EVs is that for you to make the big savings you need to be pushing range regulary
How did you work that out? An Ioniq has a claimed range of 280km, but we've all seen the tests and even at 120-130km/h on motorways (any EV's weakest point), it can do over 200km
So if you did 200km every day (no range anxiety) and charge the car up at home every night, you would do 73k km and it would cost you €700 in electricity
That distance would cost you over €5k in fuel in a very frugal diesel car...
Even at below average annual mileage, you'd still save over a grand in fuel. That's without free charging, never mind the cheaper tax, insurance, maintenance. Depreciation might be a bit higher on an EV (particularly if you keep your EV for 3 years and not longer), but you get more than this back in other savings
In other words: total cost of ownership of a family size new EV is smaller than of a similar size new ICE, particularly if you keep the car for longer than 3 years.
Now obviously there are other considerations when buying a car apart from the total cost of ownership and there are plenty of reasons why someone would prefer to buy an ICE My ads on adverts.ie:
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@unkel, I find that since you have put your money where your mouth is you are doing alot more EV defending these days!
Thats the price you pay for switching.... abuse from ICE drivers. Welcome! 0 -
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I think EVs are great for people they suit but most people don't want to go below 20% so when you say Ioniq is there what if there is a divert on way home or you get a call to divert to relative? It may be sexist but women in my experience are especially nervous of range so saying 200km is possible without range anxiety is not a fair statement in my opinion.
I get your argument there but will there ever be a battery big enough to resolve the exceptions?
If you had a 60kWh battery and you drove Cork to Galway and then you had to divert would you have the same range anxiety... these scenarios will pretty much "always" be there.
I guess we need an Ioniq owner to do a real life motorway journey and come back with the real figures. How far do you actually get when you travel at 120kmh.... i dont know, but its better than the Leaf so it cant be too far off the 200km's and how many people do 200km's per day anyway?
The focus on battery size and range shouldnt be black and white like it is sometimes discussed here. I think battery size should be looked at like engine size. You buy the one you need for your circumstances. The 24kWh is too small but I think 30kWh as an entry point should be viewed like an equivalent to a 1L petrol as most 1L petrol drivers wont be doing 200km's daily so in that case it will suit most of those people.
If you need more than 30kWh then thats fine you pay a premium to get the "bigger engine" like you do today in the ICE world.That is my main issue with EVs and their promotion here, most people only tell one side the positives so when I point out the issues I'm labeled a basher or hater which is not the case.
Yea, some of that does go on for sure. I suppose most of your posts are negative at this point so maybe my view of you is skewed. You did go on the national airways to generally diss EV's as well which wasnt very balanced. It was just your circumstances and didnt account for all the people who it does work for.
Im happy to honestly share my opinions. Anytime someone (relative, friend or otherwise) asks me I point out the positive and negative AND always finish with "Its not for everyone".
I dont ever want someone to buy one on my recommendation and find its a disaster for them. That helps no one.I loved my Leaf overall and if Nissand had even a 45kW version available this year and were willing to give decent trade in values on my 24kW I would be in a new leaf later this year and I will be in an EV again in the years ahead.
The trade in value isnt up to Nissan though. A dealer isnt going to give you an above market trade in value. Its a business. The market dictates the trade in value and the Irish market is just tiny and thats why you had no equity left on your PCP. That will resolve itself in time as the market grows but asking Nissan to give you an above market rate for your car will never happen. They have to make money. It means they lost you as a customer but a lost customer is better than a loss making customer! 0 -
I get your argument there but will there ever be a battery big enough to resolve the exceptions?
If you had a 60kWh battery and you drove Cork to Galway and then you had to divert would you have the same range anxiety... these scenarios will pretty much "always" be there.
I guess we need an Ioniq owner to do a real life motorway journey and come back with the real figures. How far do you actually get when you travel at 120kmh.... i dont know, but its better than the Leaf so it cant be too far off the 200km's and how many people do 200km's per day anyway?
The focus on battery size and range shouldnt be black and white like it is sometimes discussed here. I think battery size should be looked at like engine size. You buy the one you need for your circumstances. The 24kWh is too small but I think 30kWh as an entry point should be viewed like an equivalent to a 1L petrol as most 1L petrol drivers wont be doing 200km's daily so in that case it will suit most of those people.
If you need more than 30kWh then thats fine you pay a premium to get the "bigger engine" like you do today in the ICE world.
I think 60kW will cover 90% of people tbh but you are right some people won't need that much but if technology can advance battery tech then there is no reason why 60kW can't be a low cost starting point in the years ahead.
Well thats becuase many of the posts I reply to don't address the issues I have seen as someone who drove an EV for over 2 yearsYea, some of that does go on for sure. I suppose most of your posts are negative at this point so maybe my view of you is skewed. You did go on the national airways to generally diss EV's as well which wasnt very balanced. It was just your circumstances and didnt account for all the people who it does work for.
Im happy to honestly share my opinions. Anytime someone (relative, friend or otherwise) asks me I point out the positive and negative AND always finish with "Its not for everyone".
I dont ever want someone to buy one on my recommendation and find its a disaster for them. That helps no one.
It is all about honesty and ensuring people understand that what might be perfect for person A won't work for Person B.
My piece on national radio was to highlight 3 issues that weren't and aren't getting attention. Especially the ecars submission to the CER, we are at a critical point in deciding how the public charging infrastructure is managed in the future and we only need to look at Eircom and see how badly this can go wrong, ok ESB ECars are still a semi state so it's not that bad but their current plans are awful and will only hold back EVs here.The trade in value isnt up to Nissan though. A dealer isnt going to give you an above market trade in value. Its a business. The market dictates the trade in value and the Irish market is just tiny and thats why you had no equity left on your PCP. That will resolve itself in time as the market grows but asking Nissan to give you an above market rate for your car will never happen. They have to make money. It means they lost you as a customer but a lost customer is better than a loss making customer!
I get what you are saying and once the market of EVs has moved on from the early adoption phase that will be fine but at this stage in the project here I think Nissan need to be keeping EV owners in EVs not loosing them back to ICE when their finance has agreement comes to an end.0 -
@unkel, I find that since you have put your money where your mouth is you are doing alot more EV defending these days!
Don't worry, I reckon I'll still have my gas guzzling Porsche by the time my Ioniq is ready for the scrap heap.
EV is good for saving money on the family car (and I'll gladly take the €15k subsidy), but the petrolhead in me has other needs My ads on adverts.ie:
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If your mileage is small you would be better off with a small petrol car. I dont think anyone would argue otherwise.
If your mileage is small and you're rarely/never doing long distance driving then a used EV makes a lot of sense, especially as a second car. If you're doing say a <80 km commute you'd never need to worry about public chargers. I know people who have EVs for exactly this purpose.
Buying a new car is financial madness either way If you're looking at this solely as a money-saving exercise, then just keep your old car for as long as possible. 0
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