Buying / Adopting medium sized dog

KarmaGarda

Hi All,

I am looking into buying a dog for our new home when we move, but I have a few questions as we are not sure what breed to get. It's been quite some time since I've had a dog as my Mrs is afraid of them, but a house move with a generous sized garden has convinced her otherwise!

Firstly, I'll get this out of the way, we will be visiting some rescue centres etc to see what they have and we may end up with some kind of a cross breed if we come across the right dog. But we'll be looking for a pup.

Next, what we are looking for is the following:

- Medium sized dog about the size of a beagle or springer spaniel
- Great with young kids (we have a 6 month old and a 2 year old)
- Must be a pup, or very young dog. We would like to introduce the dog to family from a young age so that we can raise it and socialise it to our needs.
- Good watch dog... Before you get the wrong idea on this front, we don't expect (or want) the dog to "protect" the house, that being our job! But alerting us to visitors would be good. Friendly barking preferable. Basically, I'm not looking for a Guard dog, as I don't agree with that. I want the dog to be sociable and friendly (even to intruders!). We will also have an alarm.

Another (possible controversial) requirement

- I'm not looking for a breed that have a bad name. I know all of these guys are unsociable due to bad training/owners, but my Mrs is petrified of dogs so these will just get a point blank no from her. I.e. I'd have to say no to Rotties / Pit bull terriers / German Shepherds / you get the idea. I know what you're going to say... those dogs are fine! I even agree. Myself and an old flatmate had a staffie years ago and he was an absolute legend. He was thick as the wall, took me 6 months just to get him to "stay", but he wouldn't harm a fly. But my Mrs has a complex about these "types" of dogs in particular.

I was originally thinking of a Beagle, but I read that they can be a bit over excitable when young and that would scare the bejaysus out of the Mrs. I had a springer spaniel myself years ago, and she was fantasic, but I have heard others having problems with them chasing sheep / cattle a bit. Maybe we had ours trained a bit better, she was a lovely friendly little thing, but would be interested in hearing other opinions here.

Anyway, ideally what I'd like is a list of breeds that people recommend (outside of going to a rescue centre as that's going to happen anyway). We will only be visiting reputable breeders as well as I don't tolerate this farming bull, so if you do recommend a type of breed and know an excellent breeder please share. I can travel a bit, but in the vacinity of Leitrim would good.

Thank you!

muddypaws

Just one thing, if you want the dog to be good around your children, then having it living outside isn't the best way to achieve this. A dog living in the house, as part of the family is much more conducive to what you want, a dog living out in the garden would probably be very excitable around the children when they do meet. Also, rescue centres and reputable breeders won't want one of their dogs living outside, but would want the dog to be part of the family.

Rubberchikken

we have a rescue west highland. fabulous dog. definitely was always around people/kids. we got her 6 years ago, she'll be 10 on Tuesday:) kids come up to her and she laps up all the attention and hugs andthese would be strange kids. she's not a 'guard' dog though. would go off with anyone and would definitely let anyone in:0

sorry can't recommend a breeder but hopefully others here will. best of luck in your search and many happy years with your chosen pet.

KarmaGarda

muddypaws wrote: »

Just one thing, if you want the dog to be good around your children, then having it living outside isn't the best way to achieve this. A dog living in the house, as part of the family is much more conducive to what you want, a dog living out in the garden would probably be very excitable around the children when they do meet. Also, rescue centres and reputable breeders won't want one of their dogs living outside, but would want the dog to be part of the family.

Point taken. Not one of my own personal requirements, but one I have to abide by. I might increase the leniency on this one in time!

Flibble

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Point taken. Not one of my own personal requirements, but one I have to abide by. I might increase the leniency on this one in time!

Just remember that if it's excitable dogs your Mrs is afraid of, having it live outside will increase the chances of the dog having lots of pent up excitement and energy when you do go out to interact with him/her... I've seen lots of these catch 22 situations develop with outside dogs. Afraid, so therefore dog lives outside, developing & strengthening the very trait that causes the fear as they wait & wait & wait for interaction...

KarmaGarda

Flibble wrote: »

Just remember that if it's excitable dogs your Mrs is afraid of, having it live outside will increase the chances of the dog having lots of pent up excitement and energy when you do go out to interact with him/her... I've seen lots of these catch 22 situations develop with outside dogs. Afraid, so therefore dog lives outside, developing & strengthening the very trait that causes the fear as they wait & wait & wait for interaction...

It's not that in particular. It's a trust thing. We've lived next door to dogs that were somewhat excitable and over time as she got to know them she relaxed around them. So we know she will eventually get comfortable with the dog. I just read Beagles were "above average" excitable by nature, which might elongate the process. Happy to be corrected on this though

Cherry Blossom

Beagles are pack dogs. If left on their own in a garden for hours on end they will howl, dig and destroy anything in reach.

The same goes for most dogs actually but Beagles and foxhounds more so than most.

njs030

I can't see any good rescue homing a dog that'll be living outside to an owner that is nervous of dogs and slightly unsure of the idea. It shouts a dog that'll be returning and that's not fair on the dog.
I'm just being honest with you, it's very unlikely to happen and you're better off knowing this from the start.

I also think your children are very young to be getting a puppy. If your wife isn't completely on board cleaning puddles and other accidents as well as the damage pups cause aren't going to make her happy! I'd suggest leaving it a few years.

BTW both the dogs you mentioned are high energy and all the ones you've ruled out are calm...maybe your wife might take some time to learn about dogs and what breeds she would get on with? A good way to do this is to visit a rescue centre, perhaps she'd be interested in helping out occasionally and getting to know breeds etc.

beechwood55

I really think you should wait for a few years. A baby, a toddler and a young dog are not a great mix, especially if one of the adults is not fully on board with the idea of a dog.

KarmaGarda

Just to clarify something, the idea was my wife's not mine, so she's completely on board with the idea.

I'll take all the other points on board. I'll even try get her onboard about the potential of indoors. I'll modify my original post to exclude this requirement.

With that all cleared up, anyone got any other suggestions of breeds?

R.D. aka MR.D

How much time are you willing to put into the dog in terms of exercise and socialisation, training etc?

If you are looking for a dog that is a good guard, good with children (if trained properly) and would be okay with living outside, then a small collie would be good.

However, under no circumstances should you get a collie if you aren't willing to exercise it and train it. They are fairly easy to train but they require stimulation to prevent behavioural problems. They will literally be the worst dog in the world if you don't put time into them but put the time in you'll have a smart, loyal and caring dog.

KarmaGarda

And also, the the dog will be my responsibility, so it will be well looked after. I work primary from home so it won't be lacking attention

My friend is currently looking to rehome pups, mother is a ( Llewellyn ) setter I think, looks just like my Springer, a little bigger maybe. Great temperament, very easy going dog.
She was got at when one of the neighbours were supposed to be watching her.
Dad is either, a collie or a black Labrador.
Lovely little pups, around 8 weeks old now.

If your interested PM me, she lives on Leitrim/Cavan border.

njs030

I would suggest going to your local rescue and telling them your requirements and let them suggest a few dogs to you. They would know who suits you and unfortunately in the next few weeks there will be quite a few puppies in rescues!!
If you don't mind mixed breeds then that might be a better way to go about it rather than trying to find a certain breed.

scamalert

agree with poster above, OP having new house etc,might be exciting,but to get pup when having young kids,and wife who isnt very fond,dog just to basically sit in your garden isnt best idea.

first itll take lots of time training,so that would be like having another kid for a year,the traits you look for need time and training.Since you might end up with dog barking 24/7 due to lack of attention when novelty wears off,and thats a bad combo.

Also not willing to keep dog inside is another issue,which i guess is down to smell and cleaning after,which is daily routine to maintain that,and seems no one would be willing to do that,shows that your might be jumping to idea rather long term commitment.So would be wise to think hard before doing it.

R.D. aka MR.D

KarmaGarda wrote: »

And also, the the dog will be my responsibility, so it will be well looked after. I work primary from home so it won't be lacking attention

Working from home is great! You'll definitely be able to dedicate some good time to the pup.

Consider a collie, you can usually get them for nothing due to irresponsible 'first litter' stuff some farmers still believe in. But they are great with kids. I grew up around them and my nephews are growing up with a working collie who is exclusively outside but because she was a pup when they were babies, they get on great. They'll melt your wife's heart too as they tend to very perceptive to their human's emotions and aren't aloof.

But as I say, putting the time into them is important otherwise you could have a nightmare on your hands!

Cherry Blossom

I have a Sheltie, very relaxed around his people, loves small children. Most definately an indoor dog. You won't find them in rescues and long haired therefore needs daily brushing and is easy for small hands to grab hold of and pull so must be constantly supervised around babies and toddlers and the kids must be taught not to pull. They are a very sensitive breed though so no aversive training methods and gentle handling is required. Mine alerts me to someone comming to the door and ignores them completely when they come in.

bmwguy

I'm going to suggest a Labrador for you, I have one and she is a legend. Does bark a bit but in no way aggressive, great with kids. Hardy enough to live outside once you provide a shed or some sort of shelter.

KarmaGarda

Never thought about a collie or Shellie, great suggestions, thanks. Also, my first thought was a Labrador, but she wasn't keen, not sure why.

To clear up another point in case my request was misread. When I say "outside" I meant in shelter, like a shed with a fit for purpose area for the dog.

Also, this isn't going to happen straight away, we'll wait until we're well settled into the house first and then discuss the idea of introducing a dog to the family.

Alun

Why all this obsession with specific breeds? I'm in the same position where I'm considering getting a dog, but to me there's one overriding consideration that trumps all others and that's temperament. Age and size (within limits) are less important factors for me. I'm not an experienced dog owner, my only experience was having a dog at home when I was a kid (long, long time ago!) although I do a good bit of voluntary work which brings me in (very) close contact with dogs of various sizes and breeds.

A puppy is right out for me for now, not that I don't love them (who doesn't?!) but I just don't have the experience to deal with one and I'd rather build up a bit of experience owning a well-behaved, house-trained, more mature dog before embarking on such an adventure, if I ever do.

So, my suggestion would be to find a few local rescues and try and spend a bit of time together with some selected, house-trained, well-behaved, older dogs and see how you, or more importantly your wife, get on with them. Try and put any preconceived notions of specific breeds to one side, and just get to know the dogs and see how they react to you, and vice versa.

KarmaGarda

There's no obsession. As I said the original post I'm completely up for the idea of taking on a cross breed. And it's already part of the plan (we plan to visit rescue centres too). This post is just to keep the option open for us to take on a specific breed too.

Alun wrote: »

Why all this obsession with specific breeds? I'm in the same position where I'm considering getting a dog, but to me there's one overriding consideration that trumps all others and that's temperament. Age and size (within limits) are less important factors for me. I'm not an experienced dog owner, my only experience was having a dog at home when I was a kid (long, long time ago!) although I do a good bit of voluntary work which brings me in (very) close contact with dogs of various sizes and breeds.

A puppy is right out for me for now, not that I don't love them (who doesn't?!) but I just don't have the experience to deal with one and I'd rather build up a bit of experience owning a well-behaved, house-trained, more mature dog before embarking on such an adventure, if I ever do.

So, my suggestion would be to find a few local rescues and try and spend a bit of time together with some selected, house-trained, well-behaved, older dogs and see how you, or more importantly your wife, get on with them. Try and put any preconceived notions of specific breeds to one side, and just get to know the dogs and see how they react to you, and vice versa.

KarmaGarda

Actually, I think you might be on to something Alun. Maybe a slightly older dog before we get a pup might be better. I'd be comfortable with either meself having had both, but you're right, it might be beneficial to the Mrs. Then maybe introduce a pup later (when the boys are older) when she's used to dealing with a dog.

DBB

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Actually, I think you might be on to something Alun. Maybe a slightly older dog before we get a pup might be better. I'd be comfortable with either meself having had both, but you're right, it might be beneficial to the Mrs. Then maybe introduce a pup later (when the boys are older) when she's used to dealing with a dog.

Glad to see you thinking this way op
I help owners train their dogs, have been doing it a long time now. With kids as young as yours, even the most experienced owner would be up against it to raise a puppy in harmony with them. A puppy, quite frankly, is a baby which toilets where it likes, and has very sharp teeth that it's not afraid to use liberally.
The number of families just like yours that I've met where the children have become terrified of the walking land-shark is staggering... It is soooo difficult to teach a puppy to behave appropriately around such youngsters because the kids themselves simply aren't old enough to do any meaningful teaching to prevent bites, ripped clothes, chewed toys... It's all screeches, screams and scratches! As far as pups are concerned, young children are hilarious squeaky toys.
If your wife is a bit dubious about dogs, a puppy will almost certainly confirm her fears, even though the puppy means no harm... It's just the way they're wired.

I'll also echo what others have said about keeping your dog outside/away from significant social contact. Dogs kept alone outside in a back garden tend to become clingy, needy, and desperate for attention, so when you do go out to them, they're inclined to be extremely over-excited, and again, I've lost count of families with young kids who just can't let the kids use the garden when the dog is out there, and all too often, the poor oul dog ends up confined to a pen getting even lonelier, or being rehomed as an untrained eejit teenager.

I'd urge against terriers generally (I know someone recommended a Westie based on their own nice dog, but as a breed I have extensive experience with, almost every westie that is surrendered comes with a health warning around children... There are occasional exceptions, but they are just that... Exceptions. This probably goes for all terriers generally).
Beagles are not for the faint-hearted. Great temperament, but by dog they are stubborn and hard enough to train.
I'd generally urge people with very young kids to wait until the toddler stage has passed. However, if a dog must be got with really small kids, a puppy is just not the best option... Far better off with a young adult that's known to be good with children, and one that has a steady and calm temperament (I'm at the 6 month mark with a pup from lines well known to me and with therapy dogs amongst her relations... This is an exceptionally steady, kindly, gentle line of dogs, but even still, her puppyhood has been a hotbed of biting and mouthing... It's been hard work, and that's with much older kids who are used to dogs, and us adults as very experienced trainers).
Often, something with a spanielly influence will fit the bill, especially if there's Cavalier in the mix. Cockers are an exception, they're rather prone to resource guarding. A slightly older dog will also be past the chewing stage (which can be enough to test a saint's patience), and the likelihood is that it'll be housetrained... All things that will tick boxes for your wife, I'm sure
That said, there are really good rescues out there who can fit you with a dog with just the right temperament and just the right set of attributes... And these dogs might bear no resemblance whatsoever to what you or I might have in mind!

ShaShaBear

Can anyone say greyhound?

DBB

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Can anyone say greyhound?

Oh good woman! I had meant to suggest whippet, greyhound or lurcher in my post... Maybe a chunky lurcher that can put up with a bit of rough and tumble with young lads?

KarmaGarda

DBB wrote: »

Oh good woman! I had meant to suggest whippet, greyhound or lurcher in my post... Maybe a chunky lurcher that can put up with a bit of rough and tumble with young lads?

My uncle has a whippet and he's a little legend! Adorable little fella. Years ago they used to have a couple of pointers too and a Springer Spaniel when I was a much smaller fella! Lovely dogs too, used to love visiting them.

First dog I remember in our own house was a wee jack russell cross breed. Lovely little dog but had an aggressive streak that took my dad a shed load of effort to get on top of. We had him from a young age, and I've wondered since if he wasn't training properly in his really young age. Grand little dog though as he grew up. It was after that we moved on to the Springer Spaniel. After she passed my family never replaced her. We all missed her terribly to be honest, she was the most pleasant Springer I've ever come across.

My parents moved on to a cat now that they adpoted. Poor little abandoned fella that followed my brother home one night from the pub scared out of his life. He got fed and watered and then refused to leave! He's been with them ever since.

Anyway, enough of my life story...

DBB

The gundog breeds and their crosses, especially working line ones, are usually great in terms of temperament. The trade-off is that they could have a lot of energy and drive. But you'll always get individuals that have the temperament but are a bit too laid back for work

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

Oh good woman! I had meant to suggest whippet, greyhound or lurcher in my post... Maybe a chunky lurcher that can put up with a bit of rough and tumble with young lads?

:pac: I was just sat here thinking "Calm, good on the lead, polite and gentle in the house, good with kids, easy around nervous people, not destructive so wifey will let him/her inside - did all the sighthounds go extinct or something?"

Seriously OP, if rescue is on the cards, you need a sighthound. Like need need. They are perfect. Lurcher crosses come in all sorts of sizes. They are fabulously gentle dogs. We've had two here in foster with my girls and I'd have trusted them alone with my kids (not that I would test the theory) aeons before my actual dog (who is a collie, so let me tell you for a toddler and a baby, don't even consider this breed). Rescues are overflowing with them and there are even rescues just for these types of dogs. It's dead easy to get one of any age, baby right through to oldie and there's always a truckload at the 1-2 years mark that have been surrendered due to a non-start in their racing career. They are happy with literally any amount of exercise you give them, spend half the day asleep and are very laid back and relaxed, even around screaming children. They have but two downsides - they are a very sensitive breed when it comes to the outdoor elements (not a problem for most, but definitely not a breed you could house outdoors) and they are thieving little feckers known as "counter surfers". Never assume you've put those pork chops far enough back. If you can reach them, they can reach them

R.D. aka MR.D

One thing I would say about an older dog is to make sure they have experience with toddlers etc. Our last dog was a pup when we were around 8/9 and he hated small children when they came around. Great dog but wouldn't leave him in the room with toddler cousins. On the other hand our dog when we babies, we could hang out of him and pome and prod him with no problems. He was used to it.

Another factor with an older dog is the training. They may have bad habits already that are harder to break. After our last non-pup (a 2yr old Pomeranian) i said I'd never get anything but a pup again.

DBB

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Another factor with an older dog is the training. They may have bad habits already that are harder to break. After our last non-pup (a 2yr old Pomeranian) i said I'd never get anything but a pup again.

That's why going through a good rescue is to be recommended... The really good ones place their dogs into foster care with a family (eg Shashabear's foster-lurchers above ) so that the adoptive family have a pretty good idea what they're getting. There are some fab, fab dogs available through this route.
I personally think that no dog should be placed with toddlers unless it's known to be good with them and likes them. When it comes to how dogs perceive things, toddlers are a different species to older kids and adults

njs030

ShaShaBear wrote: »

:pac: I was just sat here thinking "Calm, good on the lead, polite and gentle in the house, good with kids, easy around nervous people, not destructive so wifey will let him/her inside - did all the sighthounds go extinct or something?"

Seriously OP, if rescue is on the cards, you need a sighthound. Like need need. They are perfect. Lurcher crosses come in all sorts of sizes. They are fabulously gentle dogs. We've had two here in foster with my girls and I'd have trusted them alone with my kids (not that I would test the theory) aeons before my actual dog (who is a collie, so let me tell you for a toddler and a baby, don't even consider this breed). Rescues are overflowing with them and there are even rescues just for these types of dogs. It's dead easy to get one of any age, baby right through to oldie and there's always a truckload at the 1-2 years mark that have been surrendered due to a non-start in their racing career. They are happy with literally any amount of exercise you give them, spend half the day asleep and are very laid back and relaxed, even around screaming children. They have but two downsides - they are a very sensitive breed when it comes to the outdoor elements (not a problem for most, but definitely not a breed you could house outdoors) and they are thieving little feckers known as "counter surfers". Never assume you've put those pork chops far enough back. If you can reach them, they can reach them

Oh yes perfect dogs. What a great idea!!!!!! I wish there was extra thanks