How to install a rodding eye, properly

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

what does all that mean in layman terms?

Essentially that there is a very right way to do it so as to ensure the joint is forever, and there all the other ways which are wrong.
Quite often if I see someone struggling with this task, I usually find that they are doing it wrong and making life hard for themselves or damaging the fittings or the seals.

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Essentially that there is a very right way to do it so as to ensure the joint is forever, and there all the other ways which are wrong.
Quite often if I see someone struggling with this task, I usually find that they are doing it wrong and making life hard for themselves or damaging the fittings or the seals.

Is there anything that could go wrong (or common mistakes) fitting the dual 4" attachments you mentioned before?

I'd prefer to catch them before they start (e.g. if I see them using the wrong cutting tool that will cause a leak)

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Is there anything that could go wrong (or common mistakes) fitting the dual 4" attachments you mentioned before?

I'd prefer to catch them before they start.

As my3cents says...

my3cents wrote: »

If they are using a slip joint they could just as easily leave the job looking OK but bash the thing on dislodge the seals and only push the joint on a couple of millimeters rather than half the joint length.

As well as cutting the pipes to the wrong length, not cutting straight, not filing the pipe ends to the correct angle to allow the pipe to ease passed the seals, and incorrect lubricant.

my3cents

K.Flyer wrote: »

As my3cents says...



As well as cutting the pipes to the wrong length, not cutting straight, not filing the pipe ends to the correct angle to allow the pipe to ease passed the seals, and incorrect lubricant.

You missed a favourite of mine, taking the seals out, removing the retaining rings making the joints then hammering the seals back and trying to clip the retaining rings back on, the tell tale signs are often in lever marks from a screw driver when removing the retaining rings. Bodgers know no limits.

I have to admit I tried to make a joint recently in a hurry without chamfering the ends of the pipe. Loads of lubrication and everything was clean and lined up perfectly but I wasted about half an hour on it with the joint almost starting to go together but not quite, thought I had it but then noticed I'd pushed the seal out of place. It was awkward to reach all around the pipe to chamfer the edges but when I eventually did so the pipe slipped easily into the joint. A timely reminder to do the job properly from the start and not take short cuts.

mrcheez

Hmm these guys do like to rush alright (which is the source of the issues) so I'll just assume if it looks ok, and doesn't leak, then it's working fine.

mrcheez

Got it sorted and thoroughly tested today


Thanks all

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Got it sorted and thoroughly tested today


Thanks all

Result

mrcheez

Now I have to figure out why my bath tap is "cracking" when I turn on the sink tap.

Sounds like an electrical spark but must be pressure levels or something ...anyway that's one to come back to later

the_pen_turner

Just for the Craic post a pic

mrcheez

Ah remind me tomorrow

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Ah remind me tomorrow

A jeez you have to, after all of this we have to see the finished product

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Now I have to figure out why my bath tap is "cracking" when I turn on the sink tap.

Sounds like an electrical spark but must be pressure levels or something ...anyway that's one to come back to later

No we will deal with that now, seeing as we are on a roll
Does it only happen when you use the Hot tap by any chance?

mrcheez

I made sure they got a black one and it looks a lot less conspicuous now

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

No we will deal with that now, seeing as we are on a roll
Does it only happen when you use the Hot tap by any chance?

So the bath tap was changed for a Grohe mixer (a damn expensive mixer I might add) and it cracks when cold or hot water is turned on at the sink, or when the toilet is flushed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GROHE-25105000-Eurosmart-Single-Lever-Shower/dp/B00505EKVK

What's annoying is, it doesn't always happen, just when the taps have been left for a while, so hard to diagnose.

The taps in the bathroom are all powered by a pump downstairs if that's a factor.

K.Flyer

Could be pipes not secured and they are moving against wood when the pump activates.
Take the side panel off the bath and watch for any pipe movement while the sink taps are turned onand off.

mrcheez

I think it's something to do with the Grohe tap, as when I lift the shower activation knob it makes the "cracking" sound on occasion, after which I can turn on the sink without the noise occurring.

After a couple of hours or so, I need to do it again even if both bath and sink haven't been used.

Also it's not a "rubbing" sound. It's like an electric "click" sound.

mrcheez

I checked with Grohe about the "clicking" sound I'm getting with the mixer tap, and they reckon it may be related to the activation/deactivation of the pump that is used to push water to the bathroom.

They recommended installing a "non-return valve" to reduce the clicking.

Any thoughts? What sort of price to fit one of these? thanks

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

I checked with Grohe about the "clicking" sound I'm getting with the mixer tap, and they reckon it may be related to the activation/deactivation of the pump that is used to push water to the bathroom.

They recommended installing a "non-return valve" to reduce the clicking.

Any thoughts? What sort of price to fit one of these? thanks

Which make model pump do you have, pic?

nick 56

I am long retired. i was a registered Gas fitter. I also was a Plumber (city and guilds) . I saw more terrible work on the plumbing side than the gas. i have long believed that plumbers should be both qualified and registered. I am endlessly angered at the low Quality work that i see.

I would leave it to qualified plumbers on this and other threads to suggest how it might be done.

A bodge on a 4 inch stack or on a waste pipe that causes a leak of raw sewage should lead to a criminal charge. I last saw such a situation in a central Dublin house where a woman and a new born baby lived.

Nick

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Which make model pump do you have, pic?

I'll see if I have a record of it somewhere, possibly can get the manual for it in the attic this evening

mrcheez

nick 56 wrote: »

I am long retired. i was a registered Gas fitter. I also was a Plumber (city and guilds) . I saw more terrible work on the plumbing side than the gas. i have long believed that plumbers should be both qualified and registered. I am endlessly angered at the low Quality work that i see.

I would leave it to qualified plumbers on this and other threads to suggest how it might be done.

A bodge on a 4 inch stack or on a waste pipe that causes a leak of raw sewage should lead to a criminal charge. I last saw such a situation in a central Dublin house where a woman and a new born baby lived.

Nick

Interesting, does a City and Guilds qualification ensure quality?

Might be something for me to look out for when I need other plumbing jobs done.

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Interesting, does a City and Guilds qualification ensure quality?

Not really. All it means is that they know How it Should be done. But do they put it into practice?

Might be something for me to look out for when I need other plumbing jobs done.

Best thing is referrals from people who have had similar work done to a high standard with no issues.

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Best thing is referrals from people who have had similar work done to a high standard with no issues.

That's unfortunately not available to me. Everyone I know rents (so landlord does the plumber calls) and my neighbours get their friends to do patch up jobs rather than hire professionals.

But if I can use "City & Guilds" qualification as a filter that would be handy.

PMBC

my3cents wrote: »

I know its not the actual point of discussion here but what is causing the pipe to get blocked? With the effects of gravity a vertical pipe should not get blocked too often?

Agree with your question. I have found it difficult to get plumbers to add REs over the years, particularly on small diameter wastes/ABS.
Why put the rodding eye at this location? It is usually on the bend or on the main branch opposite the entry of the bend or toilet waste imho!

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Which make model pump do you have, pic?

So the pump model is a Walrus TQ400.

Also an interesting discovery: I bled the rads and raised the pressure on my Worcester Bosch combi boiler to 1.5 (it was around 1) and the clicking seems to only happen now after I have finished having a shower and then turn on the sink tap after a minute or so.

Before, the clicking used to take place practically every time I used the sink allowing for at least an hour between uses.

Now I can use the sink during the day and no clicks seem to come through, so it definitely looks like a pressure change issue.

When I asked Grohe what the result could be of not fitting the non-return valves they said:

"Without the non return valves installed there is the potential for the water to cross over inside the body."

I don't know what that means... does it mean the tap may get damaged over time?

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

So the pump model is a Walrus TQ400.

Good pump.

Also an interesting discovery: I bled the rads and raised the pressure on my Worcester Bosch combi boiler to 1.5 (it was around 1) and the clicking seems to only happen now after I have finished having a shower and then turn on the sink tap after a minute or so.

Before, the clicking used to take place practically every time I used the sink allowing for at least an hour between uses.

Now I can use the sink during the day and no clicks seem to come through, so it definitely looks like a pressure change issue.

Not sure where the connection between the two is as the system pressure relates to the pressure on the radiator side of things, which is totally different to the pressure of water in your taps.

When I asked Grohe what the result could be of not fitting the non-return valves they said:

"Without the non return valves installed there is the potential for the water to cross over inside the body."

I don't know what that means... does it mean the tap may get damaged over time?

If you have a large pressure difference between the hot and cold, e.g. hot through the combi from the mains or pump and cold water gravity fed from the tank. When you open a tap you get the higher pressure water pushing the lower pressure supply back up the pipe.
Not harmful to the tap per-se, but it makes things very inefficient.
Moreover, if it is plumbed correctly you should not need non-return valves at your taps etc.
Tank ==> Pump ==> Two pipes From pump.
==> One pipe to Combi for Hot Water.
==> One pipe to Cold taps / showers etc.

mrcheez

My hot and cold are both sent at the same pressure as the pump pushes water up into the bathroom from the water tank outside in the boiler house (I don't have a gravity-fed tank as I got rid of it).

So assuming the pressure is same for hot and cold how does this affect what you had mentioned before?

K.Flyer

In that case the pressure should be fairly equal with no need for any non-return valves.
Issue may be related to the pump activation.
Might be worth considering an expansion vessel, just after the pump but before the pipes split, if you don't have one already.
Can you record and post this noise, as it has me very curious..

mrcheez

The sound is like a "click" you get with a spark say, say like the first microsecond of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G49Op6Mx-c

So Grohe got back to me about what they meant about "water crossing over the body" and whether the lack of non-return valves will cause any damage:

Water crossing over is the same as a back flow on the system, this can be caused by high pressure difference between the hot and the cold water,
The risk of damage would only be there in cases when there is a high difference between hot and cold water

So, assuming the hot water goes through the pump and combi and the cold water goes through the pump, it would seem the fact that I increased the pressure at the combi has made a difference in keeping the pressure around the tap fairly much the same when the hot water is not in use.

When the hot water is on I believe the pressure at the combi rises slightly and this would explain why the cracking takes place as soon as I switch off the shower (as the pressure drops back to 1.5).

While the hot water is off, the pressure now stays at 1.5 which must be roughly equal to the pressure of the cold water going through the pump and so no clicking any longer.

Sound about right?

K.Flyer

No.
The pressure gauge on the gas boiler refers to the pressure within the heating system. The gauge can move because of the increase in the temperature of the heating side of the boiler, or the action of the circulation pump inside the boiler, or both.
Neither of which effect the pressure of the water passing through your taps only the temperature of the water.