How to install a rodding eye, properly

mrcheez

I had a tradesman install a rodding eye on an external access pipe which is the outflow for the toilet.

I assumed the rodding eye would look like



it turned out instead that he just drilled a hole in the existing pipe and screwed-on an attachment (I can't find an image of it).

It seems that the bottom is leaking so that when I flush the toilet, the water is coming out in the garden, so it's possible the rodding eye isn't flush against the pipe.

Obviously if it had been installed using the former tool I showed above this leak would be lessened, so I think it's because it's screwed-on it's more prone to this.

Before I ask him to come back to fix it, I want to know how it's supposed to be done properly because I imagine his solution is just going to be "stick a bit of sealant around the gaps". I don't think sealant will last indefinitely since it's outdoors also it seems like a patch up job.

thanks

mrcheez

Any ideas?

Apparently it's called a "Rodding eye attachment" and is "more expensive" than the traditional connection (according to the fitter).

K.Flyer

Not having much luck are you...

Can you take a picture of what he has done?

mrcheez

Indeed.. it's DIY all the way from now on I think.





You can see from the side-profile how the adaptor isn't sitting flush with the pipe and this is where the sewage is coming out.

Based on previous patches done by the guy he will just put some sealant under there, but even my non-qualified opinion thinks that is just a patch up job and it needs to be removed and refitted?

Apparently it wasn't possible to install the traditional connection because there was no "give" in the pipe (i.e. couldn't move it up or down to allow insertion of the connection in between)

K.Flyer

That looks like a two inch branch boss with a blanking end fitted into it, if it is, good luck to you getting a sewer rod up the pipe from there.

This is what should have been used.
Notice it is plain at one end. You use a "slip" or "repair" collar to make the connection between the new access point and the cut pipe.
And doing it outside on a wall is straight forward enough.

mrcheez

What's the problem getting a sewer rod up the pipe on the one they installed?

Also can the one you suggest be put on a pipe that has no give or movement?

mrcheez

Also what's the name of the part you recommend and have a link to it (and the repair collar) so I can send it on please?

thanks

K.Flyer

I have had to carry out repairs and fit these type of connections in very tight and confined work areas inside buildings with minimal room to work and no movement in the pipe whatsoever.
So working on an exterior wall would be very easy by comparison.
To be honest, it looks a mess and is not the right job. If your guy doesn't know about slip / repair collars and how to use them in order to fit a proper access point, then send him on his way.

4" Soil Pipe "slip" Coupling

4" Soil Pipe Access Rodding Point

my3cents

K.Flyer wrote: »

...
Notice it is plain at one end. You use a "slip" or "repair" collar to make the connection between the new access point and the cut pipe.

I nearly answered with the same answer but got to thinking is there a slip type repair collar for above ground soil stack pipe? Had a look and couldn't find one?

The only repair joints I could find for soil stack pipe were the rubber type with jubilee clips and thought that was a bit of a botch job?

Edit> OK so they do exist

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

I have had to carry out repairs and fit these type of connections in very tight and confined work areas inside buildings with minimal room to work and no movement in the pipe whatsoever.
So working on an exterior wall would be very easy by comparison.
To be honest, it looks a mess and is not the right job. If your guy doesn't know about slip / repair collars and how to use them in order to fit a proper access point, then send him on his way.

4" Soil Pipe "slip" Coupling

4" Soil Pipe Access Rodding Point

ok thanks although I'm still not clear on why the existing job is unsuable for rodding?

I need to be able to explain to him why it's not a good job (apart from the leak, for which he'll just say he'll put on sealant)


could he not just install a LARGER adapter instead?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/uPVC-Soil-Pipe-110mm-21-5mm-Boss-Clip-Black-Strap-Boss-4-Solvent-Glue-Adaptor/261377280713?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40800%26meid%3Dcd540c73033041a48e1193d65e3dd48f%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D251244422534

K.Flyer

It can be a little difficult to judge from the picture, but It looks too narrow to get a rod around the corner and up or down the 4" with ease and without putting undue strain on the connection that has been made.
Best thing to do is to get a few drain rods and see if you can easily get them up into the 4".
You should be able to run the rods up or down the pipe with ease and not get the rod connections caught on the access point.

Edit

mrcheez wrote: »

could he not just install a LARGER adapter instead?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/uPVC-Soil-Pipe-110mm-21-5mm-Boss-Clip-Black-Strap-Boss-4-Solvent-Glue-Adaptor/261377280713?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40800%26meid%3Dcd540c73033041a48e1193d65e3dd48f%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D251244422534

That looks exactly the same as what he has used in the first place.

Your original question was how to do it properly, and his way is not it. Apart from the fact that it leaks, generally that is not what that strap connection is used for. It is used for connecting another smaller pipe to the 4".

mrcheez

OK I'll ask them to check that first, although I fear they might try to force the rod in and damage the pipe.

I'll keep a close eye on it while it's happening, I imagine the rod should just be able to go in easily?

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

OK I'll ask them to check that first, although I fear they might try to force the rod in and damage the pipe.

I'll keep a close eye on it while it's happening, I imagine the rod should just be able to go in easily?

It should go in relatively easily, that is why you have the large cap on the proper access points.

Pkiernan

OP have you paid that cowboy for that sloppy job? Hope not.

my3cents

I know its not the actual point of discussion here but what is causing the pipe to get blocked? With the effects of gravity a vertical pipe should not get blocked too often?

mrcheez

Pkiernan wrote: »

OP have you paid that cowboy for that sloppy job? Hope not.

Nope not yet. Just adding things to my snaglist.. obviously this is a big one as the toilet is unusable.

mickdw

He is either lazy or hasn't a clue and even doing it the lazy, he couldn't get the saddle type attachment to sit on the pipe properly. I wouldn't let him next or near my house again if this is the standard of his work. Imagine what he will do in places you cannot see!
He doesn't need any up down movement to use the bits linked.
cut section out of pipe. slip on collar and push all the way on to pipe meaning it's completely out of the way.
push fit the rodding eye which should now fit just short of the cut end of the pipe. push slip collar over joint. complete.

elastico

mrcheez wrote: »

Nope not yet. Just adding things to my snaglist.. obviously this is a big one as the toilet is unusable.

I m not sure what the benefit is of putting the rodding point half way up the wall?

The blockage must be in the back of the toilet somewhere, it doesn't sound like the whole pipe is blocked because when he drilled the hole it would all come out there, indicating the actual blockage is further down the system?

Maybe disconnect the jacks bowl and see whats going on?

mrcheez

I didn't say there was a blockage. This is a measure to take in case we need access to the pipe if someone blocks it up (not me mind).

my3cents

mrcheez wrote: »

I didn't say there was a blockage. This is a measure to take in case we need access to the pipe if someone blocks it up (not me mind).

I really don't think you needed to have bothered, but let me know if I was wrong.

mrcheez

Well I'm getting work done in the house anyway and this has been on the list of TODOs, so it's cheaper for me to add it in now.

mrcheez

OK so the guys will be refitting it tomorrow. I swear I can't see an image on google of a rodding eye done the way they have though.

So to make absolutely sure they pick up the specific parts, what are the part names?

- 4" Soil Pipe Access Rodding Point
- 4" repair collar

?

Also I'll be monitoring the whole job, so do I need to ensure they put sealant on all pipes? Anything else I need to ensure they do? Obviously we need to check for water-fastness.

I can't get someone else to do this as it's part of a larger already-quoted job.

gctest50

mrcheez wrote: »

.............
I can't get someone else to do this as it's part of a larger already-quoted job.

Yes you can, if he can't fit a proper solution, he's incompetent and has no business near a dog kennel nevermind a house

the_pen_turner

No need for sealant for proper fittings are used. They have rubber seals in them. Just use a big of lube to fit them

If they don't know the proper fittings yell them to get back on their horse and ride into the sunset

mrcheez

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Just use a big of lube to fit them

ok so ensure the parts are lubed up before they are fitted?

mrcheez

Actually I just thought.. I should probably measure the pipe circumference to ensure he gets a connector that will sit tight on the pipe.

And black obviously.

K.Flyer

What bothers me is that they were quite happy to leave it like that had you not taken notice and asked questions here.
Anyone with any half decent experience would have known how to do this properly in the first place.
My worry for you is will they be capable of getting it right this time, seeing as they are being called to task about it and couldn't, or didn't know how to, do it properly the first time.
Aside from your tilting bath, what demons lie lurking in their work that you cannot see.
I do hope they have correct insurance cover, just in case.

my3cents

K.Flyer wrote: »

What bothers me is that they were quite happy to leave it like that had you not taken notice and asked questions here.
Anyone with any half decent experience would have known how to do this properly in the first place.
My worry for you is will they be capable of getting it right this time, seeing as they are being called to task about it and couldn't, or didn't know how to, do it properly the first time.
Aside from your tilting bath, what demons lie lurking in their work that you cannot see.
I do hope they have correct insurance cover, just in case.

If they are using a slip joint they could just as easily leave the job looking OK but bash the thing on dislodge the seals and only push the joint on a couple of millimeters rather than half the joint length.

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Aside from your tilting bath, what demons lie lurking in their work that you cannot see.

I've managed to snag all the other work quite thoroughly, so have caught all the other issues and ensured they are fixed (apart from the slightly offset bath, but it doesn't appear to be causing a problem and water isn't pooling).

I was working from home the week of the job, so was able to catch issues as they happened.

There is an odd "cracking" sound coming from the bath tap when I turn on the sink tap, so I might post up in another thread about it later. I don't think it's something they will be able to fix. It may well be a pressure differential at the tap itself causing the issue.

mrcheez

my3cents wrote: »

If they are using a slip joint they could just as easily leave the job looking OK but bash the thing on dislodge the seals and only push the joint on a couple of millimeters rather than half the joint length.

what does all that mean in layman terms?

K.Flyer

my3cents wrote: »

If they are using a slip joint they could just as easily leave the job looking OK but bash the thing on dislodge the seals and only push the joint on a couple of millimeters rather than half the joint length.

This is it exactly, and often this is what you find when inexperienced people have a go at it, especially if they haven't filed the pipe ends to a decent angle.

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

what does all that mean in layman terms?

Essentially that there is a very right way to do it so as to ensure the joint is forever, and there all the other ways which are wrong.
Quite often if I see someone struggling with this task, I usually find that they are doing it wrong and making life hard for themselves or damaging the fittings or the seals.

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Essentially that there is a very right way to do it so as to ensure the joint is forever, and there all the other ways which are wrong.
Quite often if I see someone struggling with this task, I usually find that they are doing it wrong and making life hard for themselves or damaging the fittings or the seals.

Is there anything that could go wrong (or common mistakes) fitting the dual 4" attachments you mentioned before?

I'd prefer to catch them before they start (e.g. if I see them using the wrong cutting tool that will cause a leak)

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Is there anything that could go wrong (or common mistakes) fitting the dual 4" attachments you mentioned before?

I'd prefer to catch them before they start.

As my3cents says...

my3cents wrote: »

If they are using a slip joint they could just as easily leave the job looking OK but bash the thing on dislodge the seals and only push the joint on a couple of millimeters rather than half the joint length.

As well as cutting the pipes to the wrong length, not cutting straight, not filing the pipe ends to the correct angle to allow the pipe to ease passed the seals, and incorrect lubricant.

my3cents

K.Flyer wrote: »

As my3cents says...



As well as cutting the pipes to the wrong length, not cutting straight, not filing the pipe ends to the correct angle to allow the pipe to ease passed the seals, and incorrect lubricant.

You missed a favourite of mine, taking the seals out, removing the retaining rings making the joints then hammering the seals back and trying to clip the retaining rings back on, the tell tale signs are often in lever marks from a screw driver when removing the retaining rings. Bodgers know no limits.

I have to admit I tried to make a joint recently in a hurry without chamfering the ends of the pipe. Loads of lubrication and everything was clean and lined up perfectly but I wasted about half an hour on it with the joint almost starting to go together but not quite, thought I had it but then noticed I'd pushed the seal out of place. It was awkward to reach all around the pipe to chamfer the edges but when I eventually did so the pipe slipped easily into the joint. A timely reminder to do the job properly from the start and not take short cuts.

mrcheez

Hmm these guys do like to rush alright (which is the source of the issues) so I'll just assume if it looks ok, and doesn't leak, then it's working fine.

mrcheez

Got it sorted and thoroughly tested today


Thanks all

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Got it sorted and thoroughly tested today


Thanks all

Result

mrcheez

Now I have to figure out why my bath tap is "cracking" when I turn on the sink tap.

Sounds like an electrical spark but must be pressure levels or something ...anyway that's one to come back to later

the_pen_turner

Just for the Craic post a pic

mrcheez

Ah remind me tomorrow

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Ah remind me tomorrow

A jeez you have to, after all of this we have to see the finished product

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

Now I have to figure out why my bath tap is "cracking" when I turn on the sink tap.

Sounds like an electrical spark but must be pressure levels or something ...anyway that's one to come back to later

No we will deal with that now, seeing as we are on a roll
Does it only happen when you use the Hot tap by any chance?

mrcheez

I made sure they got a black one and it looks a lot less conspicuous now

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

No we will deal with that now, seeing as we are on a roll
Does it only happen when you use the Hot tap by any chance?

So the bath tap was changed for a Grohe mixer (a damn expensive mixer I might add) and it cracks when cold or hot water is turned on at the sink, or when the toilet is flushed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GROHE-25105000-Eurosmart-Single-Lever-Shower/dp/B00505EKVK

What's annoying is, it doesn't always happen, just when the taps have been left for a while, so hard to diagnose.

The taps in the bathroom are all powered by a pump downstairs if that's a factor.

K.Flyer

Could be pipes not secured and they are moving against wood when the pump activates.
Take the side panel off the bath and watch for any pipe movement while the sink taps are turned onand off.

mrcheez

I think it's something to do with the Grohe tap, as when I lift the shower activation knob it makes the "cracking" sound on occasion, after which I can turn on the sink without the noise occurring.

After a couple of hours or so, I need to do it again even if both bath and sink haven't been used.

Also it's not a "rubbing" sound. It's like an electric "click" sound.

mrcheez

I checked with Grohe about the "clicking" sound I'm getting with the mixer tap, and they reckon it may be related to the activation/deactivation of the pump that is used to push water to the bathroom.

They recommended installing a "non-return valve" to reduce the clicking.

Any thoughts? What sort of price to fit one of these? thanks

K.Flyer

mrcheez wrote: »

I checked with Grohe about the "clicking" sound I'm getting with the mixer tap, and they reckon it may be related to the activation/deactivation of the pump that is used to push water to the bathroom.

They recommended installing a "non-return valve" to reduce the clicking.

Any thoughts? What sort of price to fit one of these? thanks

Which make model pump do you have, pic?

nick 56

I am long retired. i was a registered Gas fitter. I also was a Plumber (city and guilds) . I saw more terrible work on the plumbing side than the gas. i have long believed that plumbers should be both qualified and registered. I am endlessly angered at the low Quality work that i see.

I would leave it to qualified plumbers on this and other threads to suggest how it might be done.

A bodge on a 4 inch stack or on a waste pipe that causes a leak of raw sewage should lead to a criminal charge. I last saw such a situation in a central Dublin house where a woman and a new born baby lived.

Nick

mrcheez

K.Flyer wrote: »

Which make model pump do you have, pic?

I'll see if I have a record of it somewhere, possibly can get the manual for it in the attic this evening