Widespread Snow Showers Thurs 12th/Fri 13th Jan 2017

Lumi

hotwhiskey wrote: »

Its a disgrace the abuse from PM's from my post over two days ago that did not happen for some.

I've already spoken to hotwhiskey about this but just in case anyone else has been on the receiving end of abusive PM's, there is an option to report messages (red triangle icon). Reported messages are reviewed by an Admin
Boards have a zero tolerance policy towards abuse via the PM facility and it incurs an automatic one month site ban

lucernarian

Super-Rush wrote: »

Does it really make a difference if the forecasts here or elsewhere were over zealous?

Would you rather have been prepared for the worst and nothing happened or be told everything was going to be just a damp squib and you were snowed in with out provisions?

This forum amazes me sometimes.

This is really what I find annoying, unfair criticism because I have a different opinion on something. What risk was there of being snowed in at low levels? To imply otherwise is a bit disingenuous.

Is that point somehow too hard to accept? To me it does make a difference when people cry wolf and then have the cheek to drown out others who don't buy it. I've got my opinion, you have yours. I don't want the forum to be an echo chamber like I've seen happen in other places

Edit: upon reading Lumi's post, want to add that I'm not trying to start a ****storm and I'm grateful not to have been abusively PMed by anybody here!

It goes to show when people make things personal over disagreements. A bit of respect for everyone would really do wonders here.

JCX BXC

Take a look at how many people had snow this morning. Not everyone but still a fair few. This has implecations for the elderly, they may not feel able to walk to the shop and may have to do without things, people who have to drive a distance to work will have to go slower in the snowy and icy roads, this will have an implication on then.

Although the snow was not as widespread as first expected due to warmer than expected uppers, it could still have caused alot of people hassle and they do deserve to be warned.

Warning was justified imo, the people who think a blizzard is coming to all parts of the country in a yellow marginal warning are the ones who need to talk with themselves.

A tip for the future, if the word rain is in with the forecast of snow then the event will be marginal.

nacho libre

lucernarian, i accept your criticism, but were you not free at the time to post your own views or were you shy to because you feared being drowned out? its unfortunate if it was the latter


There was about an inch of snow here on the ground this morning. However, it was not as much as i expected initially. I accept i was guilty of hyping this up, i expected more to fall in the west and north west, that did not happen.
I was sucked in by the bbc weather precipitation chart and the met.ie forecast on Wednesday night. I think the warm front is what scuppered the coldest air coming in time, if that warm front had slid further south instead of coming north, there would have been less mixing, and the 850 hpa temps and dew points would have been lower quicker. i made the mistake of not checking out all parameters on the day, just going with the official forecasts. It just demonstrates once again with snow it can potentially go wrong at the last minute, particularly from a north westerly direction. i should have factored that in from previous experiences. i was gulity of letting child like enthusiasm get the better of me. I apologise as my posts gave some people false expectations. I understand that led to frustration on here.


the ideal scenario for widespread snow across the country is a big freeze before a frontal attack from the Altantic, in a sw to ne axis to reduce mixing, or a polar low in a true northerly feed, so that if you do have a warm sector within it's not enough to turn snow to rain. Of course a north easterly delivers to many in specific areas, but it does not deliver widely over the country

sjb25

Jesus lads take it all way to seriously around here
As far as I can see all the regular posters in here called it all correctly people heard weather warnings and snow mentioned and lost the run of themselves I think but as far as I can see what happend yesterday was almost what all regulars here forecast
But I dunno lads I blame the cyclists anyway
But to anybody who got the impression that they where going to be snowed in from reading this thread

I've one message

lucernarian

No one need apologise for having an opinion

But there are some here who can't accept a difference of opinion and want to ram it down throats, casting all manner of aspersions or deciding for me what I should care about.

If anyone says "who cares", it's not hard to put their money where their mouth is. How about not making the place into an echo chamber, and don't comment on something if you don't care about it. I've had experienced posters give me and others impromptu lessons on Meteorology in this forum or start bitchy posts, there'll be fewer people posting here if that keeps up.

Btw, there have been many events underreported over the years, sometimes because the models underestimated cold air but IMO more often because it only affected the likes of Donegal. I hate the double standard of it all.

fraxinus1

I don't know what's more upsetting.... my grandchildren never seeing a decent snowfall or the fact I'm getting older and will probably be dead before Ireland ever gets an easterly outbreak (my family all died of different diseases in their early 70s). We got nothing in South Donegal. It was so promising up until yesterday morning but I knew it was going to go belly up when it was raining at 300 metres in the afternoon. Trying to explain to the grandchildren that the sled won't be coming out yet again. Tears and sadness. Awful.

CrowdedHouse

Dash cam view N60 Mayo this morning

RobertKK

Some people take it way too seriously but anyway...got a dusting of snow overnight, it froze, melted in the sun, not in the shade.
Higher up as one would expect has more snow around here.
Temperatures briefly hit a high of 3.2C.
The mean temperature so far today is 0.8C.

It is still the first half of January.
Back in 2010, there were red snow warnings for the end of March in Ulster, Cavan had roofs on sheds collapsing under the weight of drifting snow, my location in Kilkenny had snow drifts a bit over 3 feet.
Some talk as if winter is over, what will come will come, and we all just have to accept it whether we like it or not.

munsterlegend

fraxinus1 wrote: »

I don't know what's more upsetting.... my grandchildren never seeing a decent snowfall or the fact I'm getting older and will probably be dead before Ireland ever gets an easterly outbreak (my family all died of different diseases in their early 70s). We got nothing in South Donegal. It was so promising up until yesterday morning but I knew it was going to go belly up when it was raining at 300 metres in the afternoon. Trying to explain to the grandchildren that the sled won't be coming out yet again. Tears and sadness. Awful.

Thankfully children move on quite quickly from such trivial matters unlike the adults it would seem.

nagdefy

fraxinus1 wrote: »

I don't know what's more upsetting.... my grandchildren never seeing a decent snowfall or the fact I'm getting older and will probably be dead before Ireland ever gets an easterly outbreak (my family all died of different diseases in their early 70s). We got nothing in South Donegal. It was so promising up until yesterday morning but I knew it was going to go belly up when it was raining at 300 metres in the afternoon. Trying to explain to the grandchildren that the sled won't be coming out yet again. Tears and sadness. Awful.

I really think you need to cheer up fraxinus 1. You will be dead in no time worrying the way you do and seeing the glass half empty. Thank God to be able to enjoy spending time with your grandchildren. You can make many memories besides snow.

nagdefy

fraxinus1 wrote: »

I don't know what's more upsetting.... my grandchildren never seeing a decent snowfall or the fact I'm getting older and will probably be dead before Ireland ever gets an easterly outbreak (my family all died of different diseases in their early 70s). We got nothing in South Donegal. It was so promising up until yesterday morning but I knew it was going to go belly up when it was raining at 300 metres in the afternoon. Trying to explain to the grandchildren that the sled won't be coming out yet again. Tears and sadness. Awful.

And despite siblings dying in their 70s there's nothing to stop you by being the first one to make it over 90 with good healthcare. My dad's father and mother both died at 68. And he died last week at 90. I have no memories of my grandparents as they were all dead before i was born. These things happen, but i'm lucky to have had my parents for so long. My best memories of dad have little to do with snow though we both were out in it often enough:)

RobertKK

When I was around 11 or 12, I had a penpal in Malawi, he was incredibly poor.
One think he wished for was to walk in snow, something they never get in his country.
Just to put things into perspective.

RobertKK

nagdefy wrote: »

And despite siblings dying in their 70s there's nothing to stop you by being the first one to make it over 90 with good healthcare. My dad's father and mother both died at 68. And he died last week at 90. I have no memories of my grandparents as they were all dead before i was born. These things happen, but i'm lucky to have had my parents for so long. My best memories of dad have little to do with snow though we both were out in it often enough:)

Sorry to hear that.
Same age as my father, good air on the hills and they all got plenty of hardship.

nagdefy

RobertKK wrote: »

Sorry to hear that.
Same age as my father, good air on the hills and they all got plenty of hardship.

Thanks Robert. He went peacefully:)

mountainy man

I want to thank every one who made this thread fun to follow.

Today we had some more showers of graupel and a few of snow. Here are a few photos from this afternoon.







See ye for the next one

nagdefy

RobertKK wrote: »

Sorry to hear that.
Same age as my father, good air on the hills and they all got plenty of hardship.

My late dad, RIP. His favourite 'Russian hat' for cold weather. Pics when he was 88, quite 'agricultural'!

nacho libre

Nice photos. He seemed to be a very kind man.
You seem to be a lot like him in your disposition from your description of him. No doubt he was proud of you. He had big thick fingers, obviously he was a hardy sort and a very hard worker too.

power pants

Got very cold tonight, wouldn't surprise me if the snow was just late and Is coming tonight

munsterlegend

power pants wrote: »

Got very cold tonight, wouldn't surprise me if the snow was just late and Is coming tonight

It would stun me!

Storm 10

power pants wrote: »

Got very cold tonight, wouldn't surprise me if the snow was just late and Is coming tonight

That's one thing that won't happen tonight, showers nearly gone and nothing of note coming in, it will be a cold frosty night

nagdefy

nacho libre wrote: »

Nice photos. He seemed to be a very kind man.
You seem to be a lot like him in your disposition from your description of him. No doubt he was proud of you. He had big thick fingers, obviously he was a hardy sort and a very hard worker too.

He worked hard, but he never complained. Hands like shovels. Very good father.

He had some amazing snow stories. About 6 weeks ago i posted on snowfalls that effected Irish history, that all came from dad. It's all logged in my mind now. I don't want to be overdoing this but a pic of the 2 of us from 2012.

I mentioned dad on boards twice this week as he's on my mind, but this isn't the place for it and he wouldn't want fuss so i'll leave it at this:)

munsterlegend

nagdefy wrote: »

He worked hard, but he never complained. Hands like shovels. Very good father.

He had some amazing snow stories. About 6 weeks ago i posted on snowfalls that effected Irish history, that all came from dad. It's all logged in my mind now. I don't want to be overdoing this but a pic of the 2 of us from 2012.

I mentioned dad on boards twice this week as he's on my mind, but this isn't the place for it and he wouldn't want fuss so i'll leave it at this





You have great genes for the hair anyway. Always a hard time when you lose a parent no matter what age they are. Great you had such a good relationship and bond.

Yourself isit

nagdefy wrote: »

He worked hard, but he never complained. Hands like shovels. Very good father.

He had some amazing snow stories. About 6 weeks ago i posted on snowfalls that effected Irish history, that all came from dad. It's all logged in my mind now. I don't want to be overdoing this but a pic of the 2 of us from 2012.

I mentioned dad on boards twice this week as he's on my mind, but this isn't the place for it and he wouldn't want fuss so i'll leave it at this:)

Nice photo. I searched for your stories but no luck. Want to link again here?

nagdefy

munsterlegend wrote: »

nagdefy wrote: »

He worked hard, but he never complained. Hands like shovels. Very good father.

He had some amazing snow stories. About 6 weeks ago i posted on snowfalls that effected Irish history, that all came from dad. It's all logged in my mind now. I don't want to be overdoing this but a pic of the 2 of us from 2012.

I mentioned dad on boards twice this week as he's on my mind, but this isn't the place for it and he wouldn't want fuss so i'll leave it at this





You have great genes for the hair anyway. Always a hard time when you lose a parent no matter what age they are. Great you had such a good relationship and bond.

Ha ha! I gave him his last haircut Stephen's Day and it was still growing like mad:) He was bedridden so got a very dodgy scissors and comb cut:)

nagdefy

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nice photo. I searched for your stories but no luck. Want to link again here?

This was a history one from a few stories..

Wintry Snowy Weather Had An Effect On Irish History

Ok we'll head back to Christmas Eve 1591. Red Hugh O'Donnell, son of the O'Donnell Chieftain, is imprisoned in Dublin Castle by Queen Elizabeth I's government as part of her plans to bring the O'Donnell clan to heel. Hugh O'Donnell escapes with brothers Art and Henry of the O'Neill clan from the castle. Dublin is experiencing heavy snowfall. The 3 men make for the Wicklow mountains where they hope to seek refuge with the gaelic chief Fiach McHugh O'Byrne of Glenmalure. Art O'Neill dies of exposure in the Wicklow mountains. Henry O'Neill and Red Hugh O'Donnell both make it to Glenmalure. Hugh lost both big toes to frostbite and walks with a limp for the rest of his life. Red Hugh played a prominent role with Hugh O'Neill in the 9 Years War (1594-1603) when the Gaelic Irish almost overthrew Tudor English rule in Ireland. Had Red Hugh died the course of Irish history may have been different, particularly with decisions made at the Battle of Kinsale, 1601, which the Irish lost and it marked an end to Gaelic dominance in Ireland outside the Pale.

Towards the end of 1846 the first great wave of deaths from the Irish potato famine began. The Whig government of Lord John Russell brought in a series of public works schemes whereby people striken by famine could earn between 8 and 15 pence a day working piece-work. By December 1846 snowfall was widespread with drifting winds. A lot of the works were roads in the middle of rural areas that served no purpose. The money paid was not sufficient to feed parents and a family. But a little money was better than nothing. So malnourished, disease stricken men, women and little boys worked at breaking stones and carrying sacks of stones on their scantily clad backs, often bare foot. This in atrocious weather, severe cold and snowstorms. Many died on the sides of the road with the stone sacks frozen to their bodies. The severe wintry weather continued into 1847. The snow blizzards and severe frosts of this winter added to and hastened the number of famine deaths accross the country.

In March 1867 the secret Fenian group or IRB (Irish Republican Brotherhood) planned to rise up against the British Crown. On the night of the 5th March men assembled in areas such as Tipperary, Limerick, Sligo, Louth and Tallaght with very limited success. The British intelligence system had broken down the IRB system of groups of small circles of men which was designed to be watertight, but obviously wasn't. There was a heavy snowstorm on the night of the uprising, causing chaos and making communication between the various groups extremely difficult. Add to that the fact that the insurgents were poorly armed and very few had any experience of how to wage war. Again wintry weather, and in particular snowfall played a role in Irish history. Now of course if the weather had been perfect the IRB rising wasn't going to succeed as planned anyway but it would have helped!

Seeing as it's the Centenary of the 1916 Rising here's a little snowy weather related anecdote.. Joseph Mary Plunkett, one of the Rising leaders, was executed in May 1916. He was dying of TB at the time and spent much of the Rising lying on a bed. In February 1917 his father, Count George Plunkett (a papal Count) ran for election to Westminister in Roscommon as part of a revamped Sinn Fein. The idea being to abstain from Westminister if elected, which he was. Up until 1947 in Roscommon (and much of Ireland) a February 1917 snowfall tended to stick out in peoples' memories. Count Plunkett was elected to parliament in this blizzard of February 1917. The election was a by-election and the first victory for the pan Nationalist party that was Sinn Fein at this time.

That concludes my little discourse on Snowfall and Irish History. I'm sure i've forgotten a few stories but will add them if they come to mind.

nagdefy

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nice photo. I searched for your stories but no luck. Want to link again here?

Dad on Irish Winters:

The Irish Winter has always been dominated by milder weather with the odd exception.

We experienced winters at least as mild, if not milder than, the last 20 years during The Medieval Warm Period. Giraldus Cambrensis (1146-1223 AD circa) notes in his work Typographia Hibernia that snow seldom falls in Ireland and when it does it doesn't stay on the ground for very long.

During the mini ice age, 1450-1850, we had more notably colder winters with more common snowfall, some quite exceptionally snowy and cold e.g. the Winter of Lorna Doone 1683-84, most of the 1690s, 1739-40, 1794-95 and 1813-14.

The 20th century, while colder than presently with global warming etc, was warmer than the preceeding centuries. Yet notable large snowfalls occurred in 1909-10, 1917 (January and April), February 1933, 1947, 1951, 1955, 1958 and 1960. And of course the later snows of that century 1963, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1982 and 1987. This century 2000, 2001, 2009 and 2010.

Countrywide snow fell on 17 Christmas days, at a least one of Met Synoptic station, since 1961 (1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1980, 1984, 1990, 1993, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2009 and 2010). There were 9 Christmas days (1964, 1970, 1980, 1993, 1995, 1999, 2004, 2009 and 2010) with snow lying on the ground at 09 am in the morning, during this period.

So while mild has, is and will be our predominant weather theme a total analysis reveals many interesting stories of cold spells and what may be termed 'rogue' snowfalls.

That's what makes snowfall at lower levels so interesting and exciting for many, it's comparative rarity.

1947:

My dad and his brother travelled 8 miles through drifts on horseback down from our hills to get bread in Bagenalstown Carlow.

Two neighbours died and they had to get their bodies out through the upstairs windows of their two storied house to get them to burial. They couldn't tell the ditches from the roads. I always felt they should have left them until the thaw as they were being well preserved with the cold. It lasted from mid January until after St. Patrick's Day 1947 with us. A lot of the older people say there was snow in quarries facing northward in June still. Just the amount that came and it was compacted.

Then 1946 and 1947 were bad harvests. There was a fear of a famine. Post war shortages and it being the centenary of the Great Famine added to the worry. Lads and lassies of teenage years were sent down the country to help with the harvest as the weather took up in September 1947. They were the 'Harvest Volunteers'. Not being as used to making sheaves of wheat as the country folk their sheaves were smaller when tied and became known as Volunteer Sheaves. With the improved September weather sunburn became a problem with the long hours outdoors.

nacho libre

nagdefy wrote: »

T

Seeing as it's the Centenary of the 1916 Rising here's a little snowy weather related anecdote.. Joseph Mary Plunkett, one of the Rising leaders, was executed in May 1916. He was dying of TB at the time and spent much of the Rising lying on a bed. In February 1917 his father, Count George Plunkett (a papal Count) ran for election to Westminister in Roscommon as part of a revamped Sinn Fein. The idea being to abstain from Westminister if elected, which he was. Up until 1947 in Roscommon (and much of Ireland) a February 1917 snowfall tended to stick out in peoples' memories. Count Plunkett was elected to parliament in this blizzard of February 1917. The election was a by-election and the first victory for the pan Nationalist party that was Sinn Fein at this time.

That concludes my little discourse on Snowfall and Irish History. I'm sure i've forgotten a few stories but will add them if they come to mind.

Thanks for sharing that. I wasn't aware of this at all.

Oneiric 3

nacho libre wrote: »

lucernarian, i accept your criticism, but were you not free at the time to post your own views or were you shy to because you feared being drowned out? its unfortunate if it was the latter


There was about an inch of snow here on the ground this morning. However, it was not as much as i expected initially. I accept i was guilty of hyping this up, i expected more to fall in the west and north west, that did not happen.
I was sucked in by the bbc weather precipitation chart and the met.ie forecast on Wednesday night. I think the warm front is what scuppered the coldest air coming in time, if that warm front had slid further south instead of coming north, there would have been less mixing, and the 850 hpa temps and dew points would have been lower quicker. i made the mistake of not checking out all parameters on the day, just going with the official forecasts. It just demonstrates once again with snow it can potentially go wrong at the last minute, particularly from a north westerly direction. i should have factored that in from previous experiences. i was gulity of letting child like enthusiasm get the better of me. I apologise as my posts gave some people false expectations. I understand that led to frustration on here.


the ideal scenario for widespread snow across the country is a big freeze before a frontal attack from the Altantic, in a sw to ne axis to reduce mixing, or a polar low in a true northerly feed, so that if you do have a warm sector within it's not enough to turn snow to rain. Of course a north easterly delivers to many in specific areas, but it does not deliver widely over the country

Good post Nacho and I don't remember you once overhyping this event?

I think what killed it for most of us was the little warm sector that came down yesterday afternoon/evening + the lack of any real instability. We did get a fair few snow showers in the west but nothing worthwhile stuck. I did have covering here this morning though from overnight showers.

Synoptically, this was never a true Arctic feed, and without that, we were never going to into a deep freeze. This winter as a whole I have to say is possible the worst I have ever had the displeasure of living through. There has been no real weather to speak of, but just day after day of warm high pressure conditions. Really sick of it now and hoping we'll see something a bit more lively for the second half of the season.

Macy0161

Just to say, despite all the giving out about the snow AND ice warnings, lots of lingering snow and ice still around here. Anywhere that didn't get treated or direct sun is still white and/or icy.

Just because it wasn't in your backyard doesn't mean it was overhyped or that warnings weren't justified. Plenty did face poor conditions last night and this morning, and potentially still with another frost. And that makes warnings justified IMO.

Really didn't see the overhype, and I don't think anyone should be apologising for a warm sector that wasn't forecast either.

Whatever about no snow event every winter, seems there was to be a bloody recrimination thread every year...