Funding Advice

Guzma

Hi all,

I am currently in my final year of my undergraduate and I am weighing up whether to go straight into a Ph.D or not. However, money is tight at home and I am not convinced I can continue struggling as I have done over the past few years. I was hoping to ask previous/current postgraduates a few questions about their experiences after graduating and how they managed the financial burden of further study.

Q1) Did you go straight into further study or did you go back a year(s) down the line? Would you recommend taking a year out?

- At the moment, I am 90% sure that I will take a year out to further reflect on different postgraduate options, earn some money and take a short break after years of hard work. I am a little worried that I could lose connections with my University so I am not sure if it is a good choice, but surely it couldn't hurt my chances of being accepted into a postgraduate program too badly, right?

Q2) Did you receive funding or a scholarship of any sort?

Q3) Did you take loans from any financial institutions?

- I am currently considering putting all my savings into my credit union account in the hope that they will help me down the line. I'm hopeful that it won't come to that if I plan correctly, but things have a way of coming up and I'm not getting any younger.

Q4) Did you require a part-time job to support yourself throughout postgraduate study?

innad

Hi Guzma, I'll try to answer your questions based on my own experience

I worked for seven years after my undergrad before going back to do a masters. Mainly because I had no idea what I wanted to do, and I was fed up of studying after going straight to college from school.

I completed a masters part-time. I did not receive any funding or scholarship for this. I financed the fees through a combination of savings and assistance from my parents. I continued to work full-time throughout my masters and claimed tax relief on the tuition fees. A full-time masters would never have been financially feasible for me.

After I finished the masters, I worked for another year before starting a full-time, fully funded PhD.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do

Guzma

innad wrote: »

Hi Guzma, I'll try to answer your questions based on my own experience

I worked for seven years after my undergrad before going back to do a masters. Mainly because I had no idea what I wanted to do, and I was fed up of studying after going straight to college from school.

I completed a masters part-time. I did not receive any funding or scholarship for this. I financed the fees through a combination of savings and assistance from my parents. I continued to work full-time throughout my masters and claimed tax relief on the tuition fees. A full-time masters would never have been financially feasible for me.

After I finished the masters, I worked for another year before starting a full-time, fully funded PhD.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do

Hi innad,

Thanks for the response! I also went straight from school to college and a one year break wouldn't do me any harm. The past four years have been exhausting and rushing into a more difficult course come September with less support from my parents is not an option that appeals to me at the moment! :pac: I've had a curriculum hanging over my head for the majority of my life, it would be nice to escape that for a short while. Did you find it difficult readjusting to college after seven years of work?

innad

Guzma wrote: »

Hi innad,

Thanks for the response! I also went straight from school to college and a one year break wouldn't do me any harm. The past four years have been exhausting and rushing into a more difficult course come September with less support from my parents is not an option that appeals to me at the moment! :pac: I've had a curriculum hanging over my head for the majority of my life, it would be nice to escape that for a short while. Did you find it difficult readjusting to college after seven years of work?

Personally I found that being used to the 9-5 work lifestyle actually really helped with time management and maintaining some semblance of a work/life balance.

I also think that having "real world" experience is extremely valuable - I couldn't have imagined going straight from undergrad to masters to PhD.

The only thing I struggled with going back after seven years was a lack of confidence and not knowing what was expected at postgrad level - but I think that's probably a pretty normal feeling amongst masters/PhD students

Guzma

innad wrote: »

Personally I found that being used to the 9-5 work lifestyle actually really helped with time management and maintaining some semblance of a work/life balance.

I also think that having "real world" experience is extremely valuable - I couldn't have imagined going straight from undergrad to masters to PhD.

The only thing I struggled with going back after seven years was a lack of confidence and not knowing what was expected at postgrad level - but I think that's probably a pretty normal feeling amongst masters/PhD students

Life/work balance is something I've struggled with throughout my four years as an undergraduate student to be honest. Sometimes I can think of nothing other than my work and leave no time for relaxing with my family or girlfriend. On other occasions, I spend hours mindlessly browsing the internet and end up falling behind with my work. This is something I'm keen to rectify, I couldn't go through another four years like I have done so far!

djpbarry

Guzma wrote: »

Q1) Did you go straight into further study or did you go back a year(s) down the line? Would you recommend taking a year out?

If you’re not sure what you want to do next then taking some time to think about it is no harm. In the grand scheme of things, a year is nothing. If you do end up applying for a PhD, you’re not going to be penalised for taking some time to consider your options, espcially if you’ve used that time constructively. For example, if you could get some work experience that is in some way related to the PhD study (or even just related to research), that would look great on your CV.

Guzma wrote: »

Q2) Did you receive funding or a scholarship of any sort?

Personally, I wouldn’t bother doing a PhD if it was not funded. Others on this forum will disagree with that, but personally, I would never expect a PhD student to invest their time in a project if I did not have funding with which to support them.

Guzma wrote: »

Q3) Did you take loans from any financial institutions?

No and I would strongly advise against you doing so.

Guzma wrote: »

Q4) Did you require a part-time job to support yourself throughout postgraduate study?

No and, again, I would advise against it. A full-time PhD is a full-time job. Obviously the nature of how your time is spent depends on the field and the project. But, once again, I would have grave reservations about one of my PhD students trying to hold down a part-time job.

That’s not to say that doing a PhD part-time is impossible - there are people on this forum who have done so. But generally speaking, in my experience, PhDs are funded as full-time research positions.

Guzma

djpbarry wrote: »

Q1) If you’re not sure what you want to do next then taking some time to think about it is no harm. In the grand scheme of things, a year is nothing. If you do end up applying for a PhD, you’re not going to be penalised for taking some time to consider your options, espcially if you’ve used that time constructively. For example, if you could get some work experience that is in some way related to the PhD study (or even just related to research), that would look great on your CV.

Q2) Personally, I wouldn’t bother doing a PhD if it was not funded. Others on this forum will disagree with that, but personally, I would never expect a PhD student to invest their time in a project if I did not have funding with which to support them.

Q3) No and I would strongly advise against you doing so.

Q4) No and, again, I would advise against it. A full-time PhD is a full-time job. Obviously the nature of how your time is spent depends on the field and the project. But, once again, I would have grave reservations about one of my PhD students trying to hold down a part-time job.

That’s not to say that doing a PhD part-time is impossible - there are people on this forum who have done so. But generally speaking, in my experience, PhDs are funded as full-time research positions.

Thanks very much for your reply. I am pretty sure that I want to do a PhD and become a researcher at some point down the line, but it is hard to know if the timing is right. Not only that, but I would have to start preparing a project now which would coincide with my final year project deadline. It could prove to be a big distraction and if I lost my first class honours because of that I'd never forgive myself. The freedom to not have a syllabus or exams hanging over me (I plan on doing a structured PhD so it would involve exams) for the first time since I was young is something that appeals to me at the moment.

Another big reason for taking the year out is the financial strain that the four years would cause. I am thinking of getting relevant work experience for some of my time off while I'm hoping to earn enough money that will enable me to learn to drive and afford a car. In previous years, having a part-time job has restricted my ability to produce my best work (even at undergraduate level) so it's definitely something that I'd like to avoid if it all possible.

Would it be beneficial to do a part-time course for a couple of months over the year out to strengthen my CV? Or would any course that I do be overridden by my undergraduate degree and then be viewed as irrelevant? I have a lot of other skills outside of my course and it would be nice to have something to show for it. For instance, during my work placement I taught English to speakers of other languages for four months. Could a part-time teaching course strengthen my PhD application and potential to become a lecturer down the line?

innad

Some research experience (e.g. as a research assistant) would certainly strengthen your application. I'm not sure about other short courses - I think it would probably depend on whether these are relevant to your area or not (e.g. ICH GCP if you plan on working on clinical trials).

I'm not sure what field you're in (and this probably varies from field to field), but a masters was a prerequisite for my PhD programme.

djpbarry

Guzma wrote: »

Not only that, but I would have to start preparing a project now which would coincide with my final year project deadline.

I don’t understand why you would need to start preparing a PhD project now? It might help if you told us what field you are planning on doing your PhD in and what the nature of the project is that you want to work on? Have you identified a particular supervisor? Do they have funding or are you planning on applying for funding with them?

Guzma wrote: »

Another big reason for taking the year out is the financial strain that the four years would cause.

As I said above, you shouldn’t really be assuming that your PhD would not be funded.

Guzma wrote: »

Would it be beneficial to do a part-time course for a couple of months over the year out to strengthen my CV?

It depends on whether it’s relevant to your PhD project (or research in general).

Guzma wrote: »

For instance, during my work placement I taught English to speakers of other languages for four months. Could a part-time teaching course strengthen my PhD application and potential to become a lecturer down the line?

I don’t think it would strengthen a PhD application, no - whether or not you become a lecturer after completing a PhD (and statistically speaking, your chances are slim - sorry!) isn’t relevant to your suitability for the PhD itself. I think obtaining relevant work experience would be much more valuable, but again, it’s difficult to answer with absolute certainty without knowing what field your PhD will be in?

djpbarry

innad wrote: »

I'm not sure what field you're in (and this probably varies from field to field), but a masters was a prerequisite for my PhD programme.

That’s more common here in the UK than in Ireland, in my experience at least. But again, as you say, it may depend on the field.

innad

djpbarry wrote: »

That’s more common here in the UK than in Ireland, in my experience at least. But again, as you say, it may depend on the field.

Actually come to think of it I don't think that a masters was officially listed as an entry requirement, but I do know that applicants without a masters wouldn't have passed the pre-screening stage of the application process (it was pretty competitive).

Guzma

innad wrote: »

Some research experience (e.g. as a research assistant) would certainly strengthen your application. I'm not sure about other short courses - I think it would probably depend on whether these are relevant to your area or not (e.g. ICH GCP if you plan on working on clinical trials).

I'm not sure what field you're in (and this probably varies from field to field), but a masters was a prerequisite for my PhD programme.

I should have mentioned my field in my original post! I'm hoping to do a PhD in psychology after I finish my undergraduate and it is primarily based on research methods. Fortunately, a masters is not a prerequisite but many students do a one year masters prior to entering the programme. Taking a year out and not doing a masters is probably a little unconventional, but I'm hopeful that taking a year out is a good choice.

Guzma

djpbarry wrote: »

(1)- I don’t understand why you would need to start preparing a PhD project now? It might help if you told us what field you are planning on doing your PhD in and what the nature of the project is that you want to work on? Have you identified a particular supervisor? Do they have funding or are you planning on applying for funding with them?

(2)- As I said above, you shouldn’t really be assuming that your PhD would not be funded.

(3)- It depends on whether it’s relevant to your PhD project (or research in general).

(4)- I don’t think it would strengthen a PhD application, no - whether or not you become a lecturer after completing a PhD (and statistically speaking, your chances are slim - sorry!) isn’t relevant to your suitability for the PhD itself. I think obtaining relevant work experience would be much more valuable, but again, it’s difficult to answer with absolute certainty without knowing what field your PhD will be in?

I couldn't post multiple quotes and respond to each part of your post so I've used numbers instead.

(1)- The PhD starts in October so I would be applying for the programme over the next couple of months. I should have mentioned this in my first post, but I am studying psychology! As for what my project would be based on, that's another reason why I'm considering taking a year out. I have a few topics that I am interested in, but it would be a rushed decision if I was to apply for the PhD in the next few months. The application process requires you to have a clear research topic in mind but I think choosing something that I haven't thought through would be a gamble considering I'll be working on it for four years. I have identified a supervisor and talked to her about project ideas. Unfortunately, the Irish Research Council Deadline came a few months earlier than normal this year so that boat has sailed. The department in my University is currently trying to bring back some sort of internal funding to the programme but as far as I am aware it would only be given to two PhD students so there are no guarantees.

(2)- I should have mentioned that I hope to apply for the IRC and failing that I would apply for internal funding if the option becomes available. I'm just thinking of the worst case scenario because the IRC is so competitive and there's no guarantee that my University will bring back funding. Hopefully I won't have to take any loans to cover my fees and other expenses down the line. I would definitely consider doing a PhD that is guaranteed to be funded elsewhere in Ireland, but I live at home at present and it would be difficult to attend another University.

(3 & 4)- Perhaps I will look into part-time courses that are research-based in that case. Hopefully down the line I will be able to become a lecturer at some point, but jobs are few and far between as you say. It's a scary thought that after eight years of third level education that it will still be difficult to find employment!

innad

Have you looked into other sources of funding? Other than the IRC and the university itself I mean.

To be honest I think doing a full-time PhD unfunded would be madness - apart from the fees and living expenses, you need to consider research costs (equipment, printing, data collection, dissemination...). It all adds up.

djpbarry

Guzma wrote: »

I have a few topics that I am interested in, but it would be a rushed decision if I was to apply for the PhD in the next few months. The application process requires you to have a clear research topic in mind but I think choosing something that I haven't thought through would be a gamble considering I'll be working on it for four years.

Yep - sounds like you need more time to think about this, which you won’t have until completing your degree. I would suggest waiting for next year until applying and, even if you can’t find work experience relevant to psychology research over the course of that year, there’s lots you could do in your spare time to prepare for a PhD. I suggest discussing with your potential supervisor first though.

Guzma wrote: »

I'm just thinking of the worst case scenario because the IRC is so competitive and there's no guarantee that my University will bring back funding. Hopefully I won't have to take any loans to cover my fees and other expenses down the line.

Ok, I’m going to come off the fence and echo what innad has said - don’t do an unfunded PhD. It’s just not worth it. The lack of funding could severely limit what you can achieve.

Not only that, but at some point during their PhD, perhaps when things aren’t going terribly well, everyone hits a “why the hell am I doing this?” period - I would imagine, without funding, such periods would be much more frequent and severe. The levels of motivation required to complete a funded PhD are huge. The levels required to complete an unfunded PhD must be super-human.

Guzma wrote: »

I would definitely consider doing a PhD that is guaranteed to be funded elsewhere in Ireland, but I live at home at present and it would be difficult to attend another University.

If you want to work in research, then you definitely need to be prepared to travel. But try not to limit yourself to Ireland. There are plenty of funded PhD positions available here in the UK, for example:
http://www.jobs.ac.uk/search/?csrf=1123556aacca97d7d8a35f32880f3e9f96e1c0d2&category=0300&jobtype=02

Guzma wrote: »

Perhaps I will look into part-time courses that are research-based in that case. Hopefully down the line I will be able to become a lecturer at some point, but jobs are few and far between as you say. It's a scary thought that after eight years of third level education that it will still be difficult to find employment!

Which is why you really need to think long and hard about why you want to do a PhD. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of PhD graduates will end up working outside academia. However, that does not mean that they will not end up working in research. This is why I always tell people that the main motivation for doing a PhD should be an interest in research - anything else that comes of it is a bonus.

My 2c: I went straight from undergrad to PhD and that was the right decision for me. But I applied for an already funded PhD project, and didn't need to plan out the project myself, so it was an easy transition. If you have a lot of work to put in for your application, definitely take a year out and make sure you do it right, as funding is extremely competitive and you need your project plan and application to be perfect. I wouldn't bother doing a masters unless you are changing field or specialising. If you haven't already, start identifying potential supervisors and keep in contact with them during your year out when formulating your project.

Definitely do not do an unfunded PhD. Just don't do it. Don't accept a PhD position unless you have secure funding for the duration and will be able to support yourself on your PhD salary. While there are opportunities to earn extra money as a PhD such as tutoring undergrads etc, this will not provide enough income to support you, and juggling a part time job and a PhD is extremely difficult and will almost certainly result in you falling behind on your project work.

Also, don't be afraid to look for PhDs outside of your university/abroad. I stayed in my university for both degrees but I had very good reasons for doing so. Generally it is recommended that students do postgrads in a different uni as it affords you the opportunity to experience a different department and make new valuable connections. This is especially beneficial if you do aspire to work in academic research.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Hi op. I did a funded PhD in the life sciences area, finished 2 years ago. Some thoughts below.

Firstly, I wouldn't touch a PhD without funding, you'll be crippled with the cost unless you have someone to support you.

I also wouldn't attempt to hold down a part time job with a PhD. When I did mine, particularly in the last half of the final year, I was working 7 days a week, at least 10 hours a day. Now this won't be everyone's experience, but none of the people I did my PhD with (approx 150 all told) had part time jobs. It would just be too hard.

From reading your posts you're not coming across as someone who is totally driven by a PhD and research. It's not something to take on lightly. If you are dead set on becoming a lecturer then a PhD will be necessary, but your odds of getting a job in the field are slim. Any job you do get will likely be initially paid by the hour and very insecure. If you are willing to put up with this then go for it, but you would want to be very sure that this is the path forward for you. I'm not convinced by what you've posted so far (not that you need to convince me mind).

innad

djpbarry wrote: »

Ok, I’m going to come off the fence and echo what innad has said - don’t do an unfunded PhD. It’s just not worth it. The lack of funding could severely limit what you can achieve.

Not only that, but at some point during their PhD, perhaps when things aren’t going terribly well, everyone hits a “why the hell am I doing this?” period - I would imagine, without funding, such periods would be much more frequent and severe. The levels of motivation required to complete a funded PhD are huge. The levels required to complete an unfunded PhD must be super-human.

I couldn't agree more - there is no way I would have stuck with my PhD if it wasn't funded. And my reason for wanting to do it in the first place was because I wanted to work in research (my undergrad was in Psychology as well). I know a few people who completed unfunded PhDs part-time while working full-time, and these people are definitely superhuman.

Guzma

innad wrote: »

Have you looked into other sources of funding? Other than the IRC and the university itself I mean.

To be honest I think doing a full-time PhD unfunded would be madness - apart from the fees and living expenses, you need to consider research costs (equipment, printing, data collection, dissemination...). It all adds up.

I could lie and say that I have looked at the requirements of other funding options, but in truth I was too focused on my work last semester to look into other options in-depth. I know of a few alternatives, but I would certainly be applying for IRC next year even if I was to start in October (as unlikely as it looks now). I could probably scrape by through the first year, but going through the whole four years completely unfunded is definitely not an option.

Guzma

djpbarry wrote: »

(1): Yep - sounds like you need more time to think about this, which you won’t have until completing your degree. I would suggest waiting for next year until applying and, even if you can’t find work experience relevant to psychology research over the course of that year, there’s lots you could do in your spare time to prepare for a PhD. I suggest discussing with your potential supervisor first though.

(2): Ok, I’m going to come off the fence and echo what innad has said - don’t do an unfunded PhD. It’s just not worth it. The lack of funding could severely limit what you can achieve.

Not only that, but at some point during their PhD, perhaps when things aren’t going terribly well, everyone hits a “why the hell am I doing this?” period - I would imagine, without funding, such periods would be much more frequent and severe. The levels of motivation required to complete a funded PhD are huge. The levels required to complete an unfunded PhD must be super-human.

(3): If you want to work in research, then you definitely need to be prepared to travel. But try not to limit yourself to Ireland. There are plenty of funded PhD positions available here in the UK, for example:
http://www.jobs.ac.uk/search/?csrf=1123556aacca97d7d8a35f32880f3e9f96e1c0d2&category=0300&jobtype=02

(4): Which is why you really need to think long and hard about why you want to do a PhD. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of PhD graduates will end up working outside academia. However, that does not mean that they will not end up working in research. This is why I always tell people that the main motivation for doing a PhD should be an interest in research - anything else that comes of it is a bonus.

(1): I have been pretty resigned to taking a year out, but the main thing holding me back was the fear that I would lose contact with my lecturers and that it would damage my chances of getting into the PhD the year after. I am quite happy to take the year out and I would hate to rush into the PhD with a topic I'm unsure about. It's good to get encouragement from others though, I've been trying to justify it to those close to me and they can't see it from my point of view. I have been non-committal about the PhD when discussing it with my lecturers so I am glad I've kept my options open in that regard.

(2): Where would you draw the line in terms of funding? Unfortunately, I'm running into the same problems I had when applying for my undergraduate whereby there is a lack of information about what the course entails. innad makes a good point about the other costs associated with a PhD. Some funding seems to be just the fees only, I think I'm going to try and find a programme where there is some sort of stipend or salary because four years without any income isn't feasible in my circumstances. I am a very motivated person, but I'm definitely not superhuman. I have found my undergraduate degree extremely stressful at times and while I've got better control of things now, I can see myself running into problems down the line if I rush into this.

(3): When I look through the link you sent me, I have to say the prospects look considerably better in the UK. This is something I'm going to have to discuss at home, but I will definitely look into other options over the summer.

(4): I will definitely give this more thought. The prospect of researching a topic I'm interested in for a large period of time appeals greatly to me and I am really enjoying working on my final year project at the moment. However, it is certainly not a decision to take lightly as you say. Whenever I've researched topics before, it has only been for a short period of time until the deadlines comes and then it's all forgotten about. I can honestly say that the five months I spent teaching were the most enjoyable five months of my life so that's why I'm keen to become a lecturer someday. I know the circumstances would be somewhat different, but I found being able to have a positive impact on students to be a rewarding experience. Having said that, I would happily do research and assignments have always been the most enjoyable aspect of my coursework (as opposed to exams whereby I tend to underachieve).

Guzma

Deleted User wrote: »

My 2c: I went straight from undergrad to PhD and that was the right decision for me. But I applied for an already funded PhD project, and didn't need to plan out the project myself, so it was an easy transition. If you have a lot of work to put in for your application, definitely take a year out and make sure you do it right, as funding is extremely competitive and you need your project plan and application to be perfect. I wouldn't bother doing a masters unless you are changing field or specialising. If you haven't already, start identifying potential supervisors and keep in contact with them during your year out when formulating your project.

Definitely do not do an unfunded PhD. Just don't do it. Don't accept a PhD position unless you have secure funding for the duration and will be able to support yourself on your PhD salary. While there are opportunities to earn extra money as a PhD such as tutoring undergrads etc, this will not provide enough income to support you, and juggling a part time job and a PhD is extremely difficult and will almost certainly result in you falling behind on your project work.

Also, don't be afraid to look for PhDs outside of your university/abroad. I stayed in my university for both degrees but I had very good reasons for doing so. Generally it is recommended that students do postgrads in a different uni as it affords you the opportunity to experience a different department and make new valuable connections. This is especially beneficial if you do aspire to work in academic research.

Hi piratequeen, thanks for the response and advise. Preparing a project for the PhD now would be a huge distraction and could very well have a negative effect on my performance in the upcoming semester. Similarly, I think the application for funding would take up some of my time which is something I'm keen to avoid- especially when there's such high stakes with the final semester. I'm glad everyone is being so honest about the costs of doing a PhD and what it will involve. It has given me a lot to think about and while I was previously 90% sure about taking a year out, I am now approaching absolute certainty.

You're right, it is just not feasible to do a PhD if I don't have funding available. I have had part-time jobs throughout my undergraduate and I was forced to quit my previous job because it was beginning to impede on my work. This may seem like a naive question, but what kind of holidays do PhD students get? In previous years, I have worked during the holidays and I've been able support myself throughout the college semesters. It helps that I live at home, but without funding I will be very limited.

As for moving abroad or elsewhere in Ireland, it's not something that I've given much thought about as of yet. However, it is good to get perspective from other posters here about their experiences and what they recommend. I'm definitely going to evaluate my options more closely when I finish this semester. It would be tough leaving home and my girlfriend, but it's something I definitely have to be open to because it's likely I will have to travel down the line either way.

Guzma

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Hi op. I did a funded PhD in the life sciences area, finished 2 years ago. Some thoughts below.

Firstly, I wouldn't touch a PhD without funding, you'll be crippled with the cost unless you have someone to support you.

I also wouldn't attempt to hold down a part time job with a PhD. When I did mine, particularly in the last half of the final year, I was working 7 days a week, at least 10 hours a day. Now this won't be everyone's experience, but none of the people I did my PhD with (approx 150 all told) had part time jobs. It would just be too hard.

From reading your posts you're not coming across as someone who is totally driven by a PhD and research. It's not something to take on lightly. If you are dead set on becoming a lecturer then a PhD will be necessary, but your odds of getting a job in the field are slim. Any job you do get will likely be initially paid by the hour and very insecure. If you are willing to put up with this then go for it, but you would want to be very sure that this is the path forward for you. I'm not convinced by what you've posted so far (not that you need to convince me mind).

Hi donkeyoaty0099, thanks for the response and advise. Just how expensive is a PhD outside of the fees? I know it is largely dependent on the specific programme, but in your experience, how much money was devoted to travelling, printing, conferences etc. I know there will be teaching hours but I'm going to avoid getting a part-time job at all costs. I quit my previous during the second week last semester and I've struggled with work-life balance at times over the past few years.

I didn't grow up wanting to become a researcher, there is no doubt about that. I wanted to become a Formula 1 driver but that's not going to happen anytime soon! :pac: The career guidance in my secondary school was atrocious so I chose courses based on what I was interested in without having any real insight about future job prospects and how many years of study are required. Fortunately, I ended up studying psychology and while it is a lot to different to what I expected, there are certain topics that I find really interesting. The opportunity to extend knowledge in particular areas is definitely a huge motivation for me.

On the other hand, I would also be lying if I said that I've dreamed of becoming a lecturer my entire life, though primary teaching and secondary teaching were on my CAO form. I would ideally like to become a lecturer down the line given my previous positive experiences when teaching. Having said that, I would have no problem being a postdoctoral researcher at all and I feel it is something I would enjoy. I am really invested in my projects, almost to the point where I am obsessive at times.

I am definitely going to keep an open mind about other courses for sure though. I am not sure I am interested to the point where I am willing to forego income for years after finishing the PhD. At the moment, I'm almost certainly going to take a year out now so I will evaluate things more in the summer and during the following months.

innad

Guzma wrote: »

This may seem like a naive question, but what kind of holidays do PhD students get?

I think generally speaking it's the usual 20-25 days of annual leave a year, although this may vary between institutions and programmes.

In terms of other costs associated with a PhD, this really depends on your project and research methods.

To attend an international conference you'd probably be looking at about €1000 for registration, flights, accomodation etc. per conference.

If you want to publish in open access journals, the costs are about €1500-€2000 per article. Obviously publishing open access is not essential, but something to keep in mind.

You might realise that you need additional training (e.g. in a particular statistical analysis technique), but without funding for training courses, you might not be able to do this. Or you might need specialist software that your university doesn't have a site license for.

Then there's things like printing - not just articles, but data collection forms for example. You might want to get participant information leaflets and consent forms printed in colour, or questionnaire booklets printed by a professional printers. For one of my ethics applications, I had to print 16 copies of over 100 pages each, and that's before even starting data collection. Then there's interlibrary loans, postage if you happen to do a postal survey, transcription costs if you do a lot of interviews or focus groups (I know most people probably transcribe themselves, but it's nice to have the option to be able to outsource some of this work).

Again depending on your project, you might need to reimburse travel or parking costs for your participants, or you might incur these costs yourself.
It all adds up... and at the end of the day you will be working incredibly hard for 3-4 years, and contributing something to human knowledge. No good reason why you shouldn't be getting paid for doing so.

Kavrocks

I'm in my 3rd year of my funded PhD in the same university as my undergraduate. My PhD is actually an extension of my undergraduate final year project. I, as you, really enjoyed my final year project for several reasons but a PhD is a completely different kettle of fish and I don't think you can reasonably prepare for that. As much as I liked my final year project and the first year of my PhD there have been times I've hated it and once where I did consider packing it in. I think to get through a PhD you either need a very good support network, including your supervisor, or a good mental and emotional toughness. As another poster has mentioned, I'm not convinced you are ready for a PhD now and would definitely recommend the year out especially if not taking it would mean doing a self funded PhD.

The fees in my university for a PhD are over €5,000 per year. On top of that there are stationary costs, laptop/computer expenses, equipment and a host of other things you may take for granted. Then you have to take in to account living expenses. I still live with my parents but there is still no way I could do an unfunded PhD. If you start a PhD without funding there is no guarantee you will receive it in year 2, 3 or later. What will you do if you don't get funding for year 2 onwards?

I know people who have moved out of home to do a PhD and even though they are funded there are some weeks and months where they struggle and have to dip in to savings. I also know two people who don't know if they are going to continue receiving funding from this month on. They've been in limbo for 2 months and work has essentially ground to a halt because of the stress of not knowing if they'll be funded. Can you honestly say if money was tight you'd still be able to continue working with 100% commitment on your PhD?

After starting my PhD I think there is a very poor misconception about it. It is not like doing an undergraduate course or a masters degree. It is more like having a real job and working. The only caveat is you are primarily your own boss. At least for me I define my working hours, I've no set amount of holidays it's just up to me to decide how many to take and when and I also primarily decide the direction my research takes. My supervisor provides a lot of input, advice and is very helpful but at the end of the day it is up to me to make all the decisions and do the work. Thus, I don't see why anybody would ever consider doing a PhD without being paid for it.

I hope this helps you. If you've any questions specific about my experience I'd be happy to help. It wasn't until I spoke to other PhD students I decided to do one.

Guzma

innad wrote: »

I think generally speaking it's the usual 20-25 days of annual leave a year, although this may vary between institutions and programmes.

In terms of other costs associated with a PhD, this really depends on your project and research methods.

To attend an international conference you'd probably be looking at about €1000 for registration, flights, accomodation etc. per conference.

If you want to publish in open access journals, the costs are about €1500-€2000 per article. Obviously publishing open access is not essential, but something to keep in mind.

You might realise that you need additional training (e.g. in a particular statistical analysis technique), but without funding for training courses, you might not be able to do this. Or you might need specialist software that your university doesn't have a site license for.

Then there's things like printing - not just articles, but data collection forms for example. You might want to get participant information leaflets and consent forms printed in colour, or questionnaire booklets printed by a professional printers. For one of my ethics applications, I had to print 16 copies of over 100 pages each, and that's before even starting data collection. Then there's interlibrary loans, postage if you happen to do a postal survey, transcription costs if you do a lot of interviews or focus groups (I know most people probably transcribe themselves, but it's nice to have the option to be able to outsource some of this work).

Again depending on your project, you might need to reimburse travel or parking costs for your participants, or you might incur these costs yourself.
It all adds up... and at the end of the day you will be working incredibly hard for 3-4 years, and contributing something to human knowledge. No good reason why you shouldn't be getting paid for doing so.

Thanks again for responding to my queries - your responses have been really helpful! First of all, apologies for the delay in my response. My laptop has had major issues over the past couple of days but fortunately they are resolved now.

I figured that there was no way that I'd be enjoying the four months holidays for summer and six weeks holidays that we get at Christmas. Of course, that causes more problems because there would be no opportunities for me to work during the holidays and support myself throughout the college semesters - which is what I have done so far. It's clear that going straight into a PhD is not financially viable and that I would struggle badly. I have to thank you and the other posters for being so transparent about the costs involved, it is very hard to ask staff at the university these questions.

I can see how all the costs you mentioned could all restrict me from producing my best work. It is likely that most of them would be necessary with any Psychology PhD so it's definitely another factor to keep in mind. As for transcription, it's an absolute nightmare! I would definitely try to outsource that workload.

I've thought about it a little bit longer and I am now pretty much resigned to taking a year out. It just would not suit me to be rushing the preparation of a project now and I want my focus to be directed towards my work during my final semester. I've never truly had the opportunity to think about what topics I'm interested in and I'm a fearful that I would pick something that I'm not too keen on and regret it down the line. As I mentioned previously, I could probably make it through the first year of the PhD fine but there would be no guarantees that I would get funding down the line. I definitely need more time to revise my options and I doubt I will have too much over the next four months.

Guzma

Kavrocks wrote: »

I'm in my 3rd year of my funded PhD in the same university as my undergraduate. My PhD is actually an extension of my undergraduate final year project. I, as you, really enjoyed my final year project for several reasons but a PhD is a completely different kettle of fish and I don't think you can reasonably prepare for that. As much as I liked my final year project and the first year of my PhD there have been times I've hated it and once where I did consider packing it in. I think to get through a PhD you either need a very good support network, including your supervisor, or a good mental and emotional toughness. As another poster has mentioned, I'm not convinced you are ready for a PhD now and would definitely recommend the year out especially if not taking it would mean doing a self funded PhD.

The fees in my university for a PhD are over €5,000 per year. On top of that there are stationary costs, laptop/computer expenses, equipment and a host of other things you may take for granted. Then you have to take in to account living expenses. I still live with my parents but there is still no way I could do an unfunded PhD. If you start a PhD without funding there is no guarantee you will receive it in year 2, 3 or later. What will you do if you don't get funding for year 2 onwards?

I know people who have moved out of home to do a PhD and even though they are funded there are some weeks and months where they struggle and have to dip in to savings. I also know two people who don't know if they are going to continue receiving funding from this month on. They've been in limbo for 2 months and work has essentially ground to a halt because of the stress of not knowing if they'll be funded. Can you honestly say if money was tight you'd still be able to continue working with 100% commitment on your PhD?

After starting my PhD I think there is a very poor misconception about it. It is not like doing an undergraduate course or a masters degree. It is more like having a real job and working. The only caveat is you are primarily your own boss. At least for me I define my working hours, I've no set amount of holidays it's just up to me to decide how many to take and when and I also primarily decide the direction my research takes. My supervisor provides a lot of input, advice and is very helpful but at the end of the day it is up to me to make all the decisions and do the work. Thus, I don't see why anybody would ever consider doing a PhD without being paid for it.

I hope this helps you. If you've any questions specific about my experience I'd be happy to help. It wasn't until I spoke to other PhD students I decided to do one.

Hi Kavrocks, thanks very much for the response and advise! First of all apologies for the delay in my response, I have been caught up with trying to get my laptop fixed before the Spring semester starts. I have had a lot of questions about the day-to day life of a PhD student answered so far and I am sure there will be several more that will crop up over the next few months. If is it okay with you, could I prepare a list of questions during the semester that I could ask you during the summer?

I think taking a year out is the right option for me so I will definitely be giving funding options and other courses consideration during my time off. I have started to look forward to the time off now and I'm taking note of potential opportunities for experience and events that would improve my CV down the line.

How do you find doing a PhD in the same university where you did your undergraduate? How did your relationships with your lecturers/supervisors change when you became a PhD student? I have always thought that I would be treated differently as a PhD student than an undergraduate student if I decided to do it at my current university. Did you go straight from undergraduate level into a PhD? If so, how long did it take you to adapt to the increased work-load and responsibilities?

If I were to go straight into a PhD without funding and if I didn't manage to secure it for Year 2 and 3 then I would be in difficulty without question. I would possibly have to take a year out to raise funds, but I could see myself losing motivation. I don't have a car and moving out of my parents house is not going to be on the cards for a long time as it stands. I have a long road ahead of me, it's tempting at times to commit to a graduate programme with a company where I would have great chance of earning a good salary far quicker. At the moment, my plan is to work extremely hard during the upcoming summer to improve my CV and give myself a greater chance of securing funding before starting the PhD in 2018. Hopefully I will be able to organise something and then I would try to work full-time so that I'd have savings available in the event of unexpected financial disasters.

I've also heard from current PhD students at my University about their colleagues running into serious financial problems. To be completely honest, I deal poorly with distractions and I could definitely see myself being stressed over a lack of funding. I have had to deal with a lot over the past few years which also contributed to me giving a year out some thought. I am usually highly motivated and resilient but when multiple things start going wrong for me at the same time, I tend to get very disheartened.

innad

Guzma wrote: »

Thanks again for responding to my queries - your responses have been really helpful! First of all, apologies for the delay in my response. My laptop has had major issues over the past couple of days but fortunately they are resolved now.

[...]

I've thought about it a little bit longer and I am now pretty much resigned to taking a year out. It just would not suit me to be rushing the preparation of a project now and I want my focus to be directed towards my work during my final semester. I've never truly had the opportunity to think about what topics I'm interested in and I'm a fearful that I would pick something that I'm not too keen on and regret it down the line. As I mentioned previously, I could probably make it through the first year of the PhD fine but there would be no guarantees that I would get funding down the line. I definitely need more time to revise my options and I doubt I will have too much over the next four months.

No problem - best of luck! A PhD really isn't something to rush into.

You could also check with the lecturers in your department if they have any projects that you could contribute to as a research assistant. That way you could stay in touch after your undergrad and also gain some research experience.

djpbarry

Guzma wrote: »

I have been non-committal about the PhD when discussing it with my lecturers so I am glad I've kept my options open in that regard.

Can you elaborate on this point - what have your lecturers been telling you?

Guzma wrote: »

Some funding seems to be just the fees only, I think I'm going to try and find a programme where there is some sort of stipend or salary because four years without any income isn't feasible in my circumstances.

When people talk about a funded PhD, they mean one in which the student receives a stipend.

Guzma wrote: »

I figured that there was no way that I'd be enjoying the four months holidays for summer and six weeks holidays that we get at Christmas. Of course, that causes more problems because there would be no opportunities for me to work during the holidays and support myself throughout the college semesters - which is what I have done so far.

You really have to stop working on the assumption that if you do a PhD, you’re going to have to find some other means of supporting yourself financially. Start assuming that you will be paid a stipend.

Guzma wrote: »

I have always thought that I would be treated differently as a PhD student than an undergraduate student if I decided to do it at my current university.

You will of course be treated differently - you will be a full-time researcher as opposed to an undergraduate.

At the risk of sounding blunt, I’m getting the impression that you don’t really understand what a PhD is. It’s not a course like an undergraduate degree, it’s essentially an apprenticeship in research. This is summarised quite nicely in this advert I found from TCD:

“The primary purpose of the role is to develop your health research skills and competences, including the processes of publication in peer-reviewed academic publications.”
https://jobs.tcd.ie/pls/corehrrecruit/core_document_api_2.view_erecruit_document?p_key_1=3C606EAD23CC6E04603FCA3FC5AEF3DD8850F8317D7CF8814A1DBC683F62B9FA08752F36338999CF0E37D311492EEC3C413AC43C3EAA086D633390CEED44173F816217B12ACAF585DC6BD88E355DD57E408A8425223841DAFC2884BD142FFEDEB170EA17F305C734C23C4594C64F140C6F0D751C55A8F7E7B53DF9459A8318458E27F26989E157A12C6E5D3953F776D29AD889E0805EB80BD884B10255093D9453961B694A91732EB288C61186220A01904A32A85F8DCBAFDF481A23A1312123&p_key_2=D3D64620EAD1A58298C255F114F2E9DBE91CE3391CB6D42BC8440B5AB1EF4660F0B1ED55D97C9733328EBAFB010BF5FC9DE205FB656CAA94624FB271B31735233205D75543587E5B738A699120117638390644F2B64C0105742AF788191B6F9F7A927020B41C49FAA5CD84A52382BE79F6655AB1A26779E55B60E533079E733F4804A27F1F398D9A32A31968C0C2B0A562ED2E53F62A63050517D0FFC3560360F4F9B6D128C043348D2C835012F8FD483CAF7F6F0602E12C7503D27E759B6F70

I appreciate that you are referring to a structured PhD, but this is just a standard PhD with the additional option of attending courses and lectures identified as being potentially beneficial to the student by themselves and their supervisor (or such is my understanding, at least).

All of which brings me back to my first question above - what have people been telling you about doing a PhD?

Kavrocks

Guzma wrote: »

Hi Kavrocks, thanks very much for the response and advise! I have had a lot of questions about the day-to day life of a PhD student answered so far and I am sure there will be several more that will crop up over the next few months. If is it okay with you, could I prepare a list of questions during the semester that I could ask you during the summer?

Yes. I think it might be beneficial for you too. I agree with djpbarry and don't think you understand what a PhD actually is or entails.

Guzma wrote: »

How do you find doing a PhD in the same university where you did your undergraduate? How did your relationships with your lecturers/supervisors change when you became a PhD student? I have always thought that I would be treated differently as a PhD student than an undergraduate student if I decided to do it at my current university. Did you go straight from undergraduate level into a PhD? If so, how long did it take you to adapt to the increased work-load and responsibilities?

I find I know the ins and outs of some of the red tape that confronts you and am much quicker at getting around it than my colleagues who were at a different university. I had built up a rapport with a lot of the staff in my faculty during my PhD which helped a great deal in getting things I needed, there were some things I was told I could do but when others went asking they were told no.

As a PhD student the staff treat you more as an equal than as some snotty nosed undergraduate who doesn't know anything. Some staff still won't treat you as an equal but the vast majority do. Your relationship with your supervisor also changes, it is less them telling you what needs to be done for your final year project and more off you go and figure it out for yourself and if you get lost I'll give you a slight nudge.

I started my PhD before I had officially graduated from my undergraduate degree. I had my results just not the certificate. Adapting is not easy, after a full year I still had not adapted fully. I don't think I will be confident I've adapted until I finish. One of the key things you should do is seek help on adapting. I spoke with my supervisor about adapting and attended loads of workshops, I still do. They are invaluable and it amazes me the amount of people that don't attend.

Everybody is different and every PhD is different. As much as my answers will reflect my experiences I'm sure somebody else on this forum will have a completely different viewpoint.

Guzma

When people talk about a funded PhD, they mean one in which the student receives a stipend.

I thought that was referring to programmes whereby just the fees or alternatively the fees + stipend are paid - that makes sense now.

You really have to stop working on the assumption that if you do a PhD, you’re going to have to find some other means of supporting yourself financially. Start assuming that you will be paid a stipend.

This is definitely something I'm going to have to weigh up during the summer and throughout my year out. I can be completely honest and admit that I haven't really looked at options outside of my home university in-depth as of yet, but I'm far more open to moving compared to before I started the thread. I have to consider programmes with a stipend of course, but I currently live at home and I'm in a long-term relationship so I would have to think about it at length.

You will of course be treated differently - you will be a full-time researcher as opposed to an undergraduate.

At the risk of sounding blunt, I’m getting the impression that you don’t really understand what a PhD is. It’s not a course like an undergraduate degree, it’s essentially an apprenticeship in research.

I appreciate that you are referring to a structured PhD, but this is just a standard PhD with the additional option of attending courses and lectures identified as being potentially beneficial to the student by themselves and their supervisor (or such is my understanding, at least).

Of course I know what a PhD is! The only reason I asked how the relationships with the lecturers changed for Kavrocks was because he mentioned that he did his PhD in the same university as his undergraduate. I was just wondering whether or not he noticed a major change in how he was treated or if being a PhD student at the same department hindered him in that regard. Don't let those posts where I mentioned that I wanted to become a lecturer down the line make you think otherwise either. I know that it is a much different prospect to doing a masters for a year by all means. However, I can hold my hands up and admit that I haven't looked into what a PhD entails to the point that I'm 100% ready to commit yet. It is something I'm working on and it's partly why I have been resigned to taking a year out in the first place.

All of which brings me back to my first question above - what have people been telling you about doing a PhD?

I mentioned to some of my lecturers that I was interested in doing research down the line. They told me about the PhD at my university and I then asked about the funding options that were available and a little about what the PhD would involve. They never coaxed me or anything like that, they just told me about the programme and mentioned it as an option that I could consider. I could have followed it up and said 'yes I'll do it' a few weeks down the line like others in my position have already done. However, I've always maintained that I plan on taking a year out, that I want to consider my options and take a short break. The primary reason for starting this thread was to determine if taking a year out could hinder my chances of being accepted into the programme down the line as it is not a question that I feel comfortable asking at the university.

Kavrocks

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was during my undergraduate I really liked my university but now in my seventh year, I don't. I won't and couldn't stay in it for good or without a long break. I've set a hard limit of 9 consecutive years in my university before I move on regardless of what I'm offered after my PhD.