Funding Advice

innad wrote: »

Some research experience (e.g. as a research assistant) would certainly strengthen your application. I'm not sure about other short courses - I think it would probably depend on whether these are relevant to your area or not (e.g. ICH GCP if you plan on working on clinical trials).

I'm not sure what field you're in (and this probably varies from field to field), but a masters was a prerequisite for my PhD programme.

I should have mentioned my field in my original post! I'm hoping to do a PhD in psychology after I finish my undergraduate and it is primarily based on research methods. Fortunately, a masters is not a prerequisite but many students do a one year masters prior to entering the programme. Taking a year out and not doing a masters is probably a little unconventional, but I'm hopeful that taking a year out is a good choice.

djpbarry wrote: »

(1): Yep - sounds like you need more time to think about this, which you won’t have until completing your degree. I would suggest waiting for next year until applying and, even if you can’t find work experience relevant to psychology research over the course of that year, there’s lots you could do in your spare time to prepare for a PhD. I suggest discussing with your potential supervisor first though.

(2): Ok, I’m going to come off the fence and echo what innad has said - don’t do an unfunded PhD. It’s just not worth it. The lack of funding could severely limit what you can achieve.

Not only that, but at some point during their PhD, perhaps when things aren’t going terribly well, everyone hits a “why the hell am I doing this?” period - I would imagine, without funding, such periods would be much more frequent and severe. The levels of motivation required to complete a funded PhD are huge. The levels required to complete an unfunded PhD must be super-human.

(3): If you want to work in research, then you definitely need to be prepared to travel. But try not to limit yourself to Ireland. There are plenty of funded PhD positions available here in the UK, for example:
http://www.jobs.ac.uk/search/?csrf=1123556aacca97d7d8a35f32880f3e9f96e1c0d2&category=0300&jobtype=02

(4): Which is why you really need to think long and hard about why you want to do a PhD. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of PhD graduates will end up working outside academia. However, that does not mean that they will not end up working in research. This is why I always tell people that the main motivation for doing a PhD should be an interest in research - anything else that comes of it is a bonus.

(1): I have been pretty resigned to taking a year out, but the main thing holding me back was the fear that I would lose contact with my lecturers and that it would damage my chances of getting into the PhD the year after. I am quite happy to take the year out and I would hate to rush into the PhD with a topic I'm unsure about. It's good to get encouragement from others though, I've been trying to justify it to those close to me and they can't see it from my point of view. I have been non-committal about the PhD when discussing it with my lecturers so I am glad I've kept my options open in that regard.

(2): Where would you draw the line in terms of funding? Unfortunately, I'm running into the same problems I had when applying for my undergraduate whereby there is a lack of information about what the course entails. innad makes a good point about the other costs associated with a PhD. Some funding seems to be just the fees only, I think I'm going to try and find a programme where there is some sort of stipend or salary because four years without any income isn't feasible in my circumstances. I am a very motivated person, but I'm definitely not superhuman. I have found my undergraduate degree extremely stressful at times and while I've got better control of things now, I can see myself running into problems down the line if I rush into this.

(3): When I look through the link you sent me, I have to say the prospects look considerably better in the UK. This is something I'm going to have to discuss at home, but I will definitely look into other options over the summer.

(4): I will definitely give this more thought. The prospect of researching a topic I'm interested in for a large period of time appeals greatly to me and I am really enjoying working on my final year project at the moment. However, it is certainly not a decision to take lightly as you say. Whenever I've researched topics before, it has only been for a short period of time until the deadlines comes and then it's all forgotten about. I can honestly say that the five months I spent teaching were the most enjoyable five months of my life so that's why I'm keen to become a lecturer someday. I know the circumstances would be somewhat different, but I found being able to have a positive impact on students to be a rewarding experience. Having said that, I would happily do research and assignments have always been the most enjoyable aspect of my coursework (as opposed to exams whereby I tend to underachieve).

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Hi op. I did a funded PhD in the life sciences area, finished 2 years ago. Some thoughts below.

Firstly, I wouldn't touch a PhD without funding, you'll be crippled with the cost unless you have someone to support you.

I also wouldn't attempt to hold down a part time job with a PhD. When I did mine, particularly in the last half of the final year, I was working 7 days a week, at least 10 hours a day. Now this won't be everyone's experience, but none of the people I did my PhD with (approx 150 all told) had part time jobs. It would just be too hard.

From reading your posts you're not coming across as someone who is totally driven by a PhD and research. It's not something to take on lightly. If you are dead set on becoming a lecturer then a PhD will be necessary, but your odds of getting a job in the field are slim. Any job you do get will likely be initially paid by the hour and very insecure. If you are willing to put up with this then go for it, but you would want to be very sure that this is the path forward for you. I'm not convinced by what you've posted so far (not that you need to convince me mind).

Hi donkeyoaty0099, thanks for the response and advise. Just how expensive is a PhD outside of the fees? I know it is largely dependent on the specific programme, but in your experience, how much money was devoted to travelling, printing, conferences etc. I know there will be teaching hours but I'm going to avoid getting a part-time job at all costs. I quit my previous during the second week last semester and I've struggled with work-life balance at times over the past few years.

I didn't grow up wanting to become a researcher, there is no doubt about that. I wanted to become a Formula 1 driver but that's not going to happen anytime soon! :pac: The career guidance in my secondary school was atrocious so I chose courses based on what I was interested in without having any real insight about future job prospects and how many years of study are required. Fortunately, I ended up studying psychology and while it is a lot to different to what I expected, there are certain topics that I find really interesting. The opportunity to extend knowledge in particular areas is definitely a huge motivation for me.

On the other hand, I would also be lying if I said that I've dreamed of becoming a lecturer my entire life, though primary teaching and secondary teaching were on my CAO form. I would ideally like to become a lecturer down the line given my previous positive experiences when teaching. Having said that, I would have no problem being a postdoctoral researcher at all and I feel it is something I would enjoy. I am really invested in my projects, almost to the point where I am obsessive at times.

I am definitely going to keep an open mind about other courses for sure though. I am not sure I am interested to the point where I am willing to forego income for years after finishing the PhD. At the moment, I'm almost certainly going to take a year out now so I will evaluate things more in the summer and during the following months.

Kavrocks wrote: »

I'm in my 3rd year of my funded PhD in the same university as my undergraduate. My PhD is actually an extension of my undergraduate final year project. I, as you, really enjoyed my final year project for several reasons but a PhD is a completely different kettle of fish and I don't think you can reasonably prepare for that. As much as I liked my final year project and the first year of my PhD there have been times I've hated it and once where I did consider packing it in. I think to get through a PhD you either need a very good support network, including your supervisor, or a good mental and emotional toughness. As another poster has mentioned, I'm not convinced you are ready for a PhD now and would definitely recommend the year out especially if not taking it would mean doing a self funded PhD.

The fees in my university for a PhD are over €5,000 per year. On top of that there are stationary costs, laptop/computer expenses, equipment and a host of other things you may take for granted. Then you have to take in to account living expenses. I still live with my parents but there is still no way I could do an unfunded PhD. If you start a PhD without funding there is no guarantee you will receive it in year 2, 3 or later. What will you do if you don't get funding for year 2 onwards?

I know people who have moved out of home to do a PhD and even though they are funded there are some weeks and months where they struggle and have to dip in to savings. I also know two people who don't know if they are going to continue receiving funding from this month on. They've been in limbo for 2 months and work has essentially ground to a halt because of the stress of not knowing if they'll be funded. Can you honestly say if money was tight you'd still be able to continue working with 100% commitment on your PhD?

After starting my PhD I think there is a very poor misconception about it. It is not like doing an undergraduate course or a masters degree. It is more like having a real job and working. The only caveat is you are primarily your own boss. At least for me I define my working hours, I've no set amount of holidays it's just up to me to decide how many to take and when and I also primarily decide the direction my research takes. My supervisor provides a lot of input, advice and is very helpful but at the end of the day it is up to me to make all the decisions and do the work. Thus, I don't see why anybody would ever consider doing a PhD without being paid for it.

I hope this helps you. If you've any questions specific about my experience I'd be happy to help. It wasn't until I spoke to other PhD students I decided to do one.

Hi Kavrocks, thanks very much for the response and advise! First of all apologies for the delay in my response, I have been caught up with trying to get my laptop fixed before the Spring semester starts. I have had a lot of questions about the day-to day life of a PhD student answered so far and I am sure there will be several more that will crop up over the next few months. If is it okay with you, could I prepare a list of questions during the semester that I could ask you during the summer?

I think taking a year out is the right option for me so I will definitely be giving funding options and other courses consideration during my time off. I have started to look forward to the time off now and I'm taking note of potential opportunities for experience and events that would improve my CV down the line.

How do you find doing a PhD in the same university where you did your undergraduate? How did your relationships with your lecturers/supervisors change when you became a PhD student? I have always thought that I would be treated differently as a PhD student than an undergraduate student if I decided to do it at my current university. Did you go straight from undergraduate level into a PhD? If so, how long did it take you to adapt to the increased work-load and responsibilities?

If I were to go straight into a PhD without funding and if I didn't manage to secure it for Year 2 and 3 then I would be in difficulty without question. I would possibly have to take a year out to raise funds, but I could see myself losing motivation. I don't have a car and moving out of my parents house is not going to be on the cards for a long time as it stands. I have a long road ahead of me, it's tempting at times to commit to a graduate programme with a company where I would have great chance of earning a good salary far quicker. At the moment, my plan is to work extremely hard during the upcoming summer to improve my CV and give myself a greater chance of securing funding before starting the PhD in 2018. Hopefully I will be able to organise something and then I would try to work full-time so that I'd have savings available in the event of unexpected financial disasters.

I've also heard from current PhD students at my University about their colleagues running into serious financial problems. To be completely honest, I deal poorly with distractions and I could definitely see myself being stressed over a lack of funding. I have had to deal with a lot over the past few years which also contributed to me giving a year out some thought. I am usually highly motivated and resilient but when multiple things start going wrong for me at the same time, I tend to get very disheartened.

When people talk about a funded PhD, they mean one in which the student receives a stipend.

I thought that was referring to programmes whereby just the fees or alternatively the fees + stipend are paid - that makes sense now.

You really have to stop working on the assumption that if you do a PhD, you’re going to have to find some other means of supporting yourself financially. Start assuming that you will be paid a stipend.

This is definitely something I'm going to have to weigh up during the summer and throughout my year out. I can be completely honest and admit that I haven't really looked at options outside of my home university in-depth as of yet, but I'm far more open to moving compared to before I started the thread. I have to consider programmes with a stipend of course, but I currently live at home and I'm in a long-term relationship so I would have to think about it at length.

You will of course be treated differently - you will be a full-time researcher as opposed to an undergraduate.

At the risk of sounding blunt, I’m getting the impression that you don’t really understand what a PhD is. It’s not a course like an undergraduate degree, it’s essentially an apprenticeship in research.

I appreciate that you are referring to a structured PhD, but this is just a standard PhD with the additional option of attending courses and lectures identified as being potentially beneficial to the student by themselves and their supervisor (or such is my understanding, at least).

Of course I know what a PhD is! The only reason I asked how the relationships with the lecturers changed for Kavrocks was because he mentioned that he did his PhD in the same university as his undergraduate. I was just wondering whether or not he noticed a major change in how he was treated or if being a PhD student at the same department hindered him in that regard. Don't let those posts where I mentioned that I wanted to become a lecturer down the line make you think otherwise either. I know that it is a much different prospect to doing a masters for a year by all means. However, I can hold my hands up and admit that I haven't looked into what a PhD entails to the point that I'm 100% ready to commit yet. It is something I'm working on and it's partly why I have been resigned to taking a year out in the first place.

All of which brings me back to my first question above - what have people been telling you about doing a PhD?

I mentioned to some of my lecturers that I was interested in doing research down the line. They told me about the PhD at my university and I then asked about the funding options that were available and a little about what the PhD would involve. They never coaxed me or anything like that, they just told me about the programme and mentioned it as an option that I could consider. I could have followed it up and said 'yes I'll do it' a few weeks down the line like others in my position have already done. However, I've always maintained that I plan on taking a year out, that I want to consider my options and take a short break. The primary reason for starting this thread was to determine if taking a year out could hinder my chances of being accepted into the programme down the line as it is not a question that I feel comfortable asking at the university.

Yes. I think it might be beneficial for you too. I agree with djpbarry and don't think you understand what a PhD actually is or entails.

Thanks very much, I appreciate it! I know some of my questions may seem a little naive (such as the question about the holidays), but of course I know what a PhD is. As for what it fully entails, I've learned a lot in the past few months and even more since starting this thread. I can concede that I have definitely neglected looking at postgraduate options more than I should have over the past few years though :pac:

I find I know the ins and outs of some of the red tape that confronts you and am much quicker at getting around it than my colleagues who were at a different university. I had built up a rapport with a lot of the staff in my faculty during my PhD which helped a great deal in getting things I needed, there were some things I was told I could do but when others went asking they were told no.

As a PhD student the staff treat you more as an equal than as some snotty nosed undergraduate who doesn't know anything. Some staff still won't treat you as an equal but the vast majority do. Your relationship with your supervisor also changes, it is less them telling you what needs to be done for your final year project and more off you go and figure it out for yourself and if you get lost I'll give you a slight nudge.

I started my PhD before I had officially graduated from my undergraduate degree. I had my results just not the certificate. Adapting is not easy, after a full year I still had not adapted fully. I don't think I will be confident I've adapted until I finish. One of the key things you should do is seek help on adapting. I spoke with my supervisor about adapting and attended loads of workshops, I still do. They are invaluable and it amazes me the amount of people that don't attend.

Everybody is different and every PhD is different. As much as my answers will reflect my experiences I'm sure somebody else on this forum will have a completely different viewpoint.

I don't mind the treatment that I receive now overall, but there have been a few occasions where I've really had to bite my tongue about results and other things that I didn't agree with at all. I'm pretty sure I will like the autonomy of doing a PhD if I eventually do end up doing one down the line as I am naturally independent. Though I can see how a good support network could be very important and how being in complete control of your work could be challenging at times. That's one thing that scares me about doing a PhD outside of my home university. It's likely that I would have to leave my girlfriend and I wouldn't have my family there to pick up the pieces when I become stressed. I can imagine that going straight into a PhD like that would have required you to adapt really quickly! I couldn't imagine it, you must have been exhausted during your first year. My university does seem to be very good in the lines of organising workshops and the likes so I'll make sure to attend these.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was during my undergraduate I really liked my university but now in my seventh year, I don't. I won't and couldn't stay in it for good or without a long break. I've set a hard limit of 9 consecutive years in my university before I move on regardless of what I'm offered after my PhD.

That's interesting, I guess a change of surroundings wouldn't be any harm. What made things change for you? Personally, I like my university at the moment but I can see how that could change after a few more years.