Vegetarian - Yes or No?

eviltwin

kylith wrote: »

I'm omnivorous but the BF is vegetarian and I gotta say, with most of the veggie meals I cook adding meat would either be gilding the lilly or completely pointless.

The only problem I have is that he doesn't eat dairy and I have yet to find a decent non-dairy alternative to cream or mozzarella.

Dunnes do one, the brand is Nature Moi and they have slices and grated version of mozzarella. Its not the same as the real thing but its a good alternative and I have served it up in pizza to non veggies and they have liked it.

kylith

Cheers, I'll give them a try. I'm not keen on soy in general, but for the odd time I'd need it I could make an exception.

Shergar6

I am vegetarian and don't feel like i am preachy about it. I really don't care if people want to eat meat - i am wise enough to know not to get into that argument - but i find i end up having to say it if i'm out for a bit to eat. Inevitably people will be 'have the chicken' and i'll have to say it then. I went for tapas with a couple of friends and they wanted to share different dishes. It was awkward as i had to speak up and say i couldn't eat meat ... i would just prefer to order my own dishes but they ended up getting fish and meat dishes - it was fine and all, they left plenty of fish for me but i ended up paying for the meat dishes too which seemed a bit wrong. It wasn't expensive but it's the principle.

I find that some non vegetarians get really defensive when you say you don't eat meat. A relative gets a bit bitchy with me sometimes but i think it's because she feels bad about eating meat but just can't give it up. Don't think she thought i would do it either.

As for how hard it is? I don't miss meat at all. Certainly not the taste. It does mean you have to be a bit more imaginative and it kinda sucks when you just want a quick ready meal when you're starving and every single one is meat based. Some - or most - restaurants can be pretty limited menu wise too. Good thing i still eat fish! (official name is pescatarian i guess?)

Bugs me how restaurants charge the same amount for vegetarian dishes though ... it's definitely a rip off that way.

To anyone thinking about it i would say go for it. I've been one for 5 years or so and no regrets. Prepare for strange looks and 'But WHYYYY did you give up meat' questions. Was at a funeral once and the sandwiches at my table were all ham and cheese so obviously i had to look around for the salad sambos and the woman i had barely met kind of shouted the 'but why did you give it up???' The ones who go 'is it... was it... because of liking animals???' with an incredulous look are the funniest though ... :rolleyes:

I don't really see the big deal in not eating it. Why is it still treated like some weird hippie concept?

kunst nugget

Shergar6 wrote: »

I went for tapas with a couple of friends and they wanted to share different dishes. It was awkward as i had to speak up and say i couldn't eat meat ... i would just prefer to order my own dishes but they ended up getting fish and meat dishes - it was fine and all, they left plenty of fish for me but i ended up paying for the meat dishes too which seemed a bit wrong. It wasn't expensive but it's the principle.

And I'm sure there was some of your friends that didn't want to order the fish but stumped up for them anyway as well.

Shergar6

LaChatteGitane wrote: »

I'd rather eat a piece of meat from a healthy animal that has lived a happy (albeit short) life than processed vegetarian crap.
Why would you want to eat something that looks like meat, has the texture of it and even almost tastes like it, when you are a veggie ? What is wrong with a good bean or chickpea casserole ?

Yeah i'm not keen on the fake meat crap at all. Overpriced rubbish. I do love the Linda McCartney sausages though!! Tasty out!

Shergar6

kunst nugget wrote: »

And I'm sure there was some of your friends that didn't want to order the fish but stumped up for them anyway as well.

Not at all, they wanted the fish dishes too actually. :rolleyes:

kunst nugget

Shergar6 wrote: »

Not at all, they wanted the fish dishes too actually. :rolleyes:

Don't know what the roll eyes are about. If I was there I most likely wouldn't have wanted any of the fish dishes but I still be happy to pay in along with everyone else.

LaChatteGitane

I am omnivorous. I like meat and fish and love vegetables.
I'd miss my vegetables long before I'd miss meat.
We are lucky enough to be nearly self-sufficient on the meat side. We have free range pigs, chickens and ducks. Lamb we get from a friend and obviously they are also free range and haven't been treated with any antibiotics or other crap.
I love cooking in general and always make a special effort for vegetarian friends who get invited for dinner, which is very much appreciated by them. They don't preach to me and I don't preach to them. Everyone has their own reasons for not eating meat. My father for instance was vegetarian because of kidney insufficiency and gout problems.

Shergar6

kunst nugget wrote: »

Don't know what the roll eyes are about. If I was there I most likely wouldn't have wanted any of the fish dishes but I still be happy to pay in along with everyone else.

Well i'm not you. K?

kunst nugget

Shergar6 wrote: »

Well i'm not you. K?

That's pretty obvious…

Shergar6

kunst nugget wrote: »

That's pretty obvious…

No ****!

kunst nugget

Shergar6 wrote: »

No ****!

Ah, go kill some defenseless fish…

osarusan

Cracking stuff lads!

RockSalto

Shergar6 wrote: »

Well i'm not you. K?

You're also not a vegetarian if you eat fish.

What annoys me about peoples' meat eating habits is that they just expect there to be unlimited meat available to them forever. They don't feel appropriately anxious or guilty at the thought that, if everyone else also wants to eat lots of meat, more animals will need to be reared and killed to satisfy their demands.

And they treat meat like any economic good - "if it becomes scarce the price will rise and i'll pay more for it" - They don't even consider that the item they are buying off the shelf was an animal that was killed. It's not a loaf of bread or shaving foam.

You see it in the likes of the fitness forums on here - someone suggests they want to lose weight, everyone scrutinises their diet and then says stuff like "cut out the bread, eat more meat" -- it is so ecologically luxurious for millions of humans to demand to get so much of their diet from the highest trophic levels of the food chain so stop not acknowledging it. "Eat more chicken" - yeah, I'm sure the chickens will be happy with that flippantly provided bit of advice, not to mention the farmers who are producing all these chickens and knowing that some individual is eating meat 3 times a day after buying it for 2 euro in lidl.

Also, I wonder how many of these fitness/strength/appearance focussed people would be willing to slaughter the animals themselves for their meat - it's easy to block out reality when its packaged nicely in the supermarket, less so when you see the amount of blood that drains from a slaughtered pig.

People are also apparently ungrateful and with a short memory - in the 90s and before meat was considered much more of a luxury - I doubt many kids going to school in the 80s got lunches with the equivilant protein content of the chicken fillet rolls eaten by the kids of today. If people are going to eat massive amounts of meat, they should at least be grateful for having it available to them. Their descendants won't be so lucky. As a species we're stupid when it comes to our resources - fish species are going to be made extinct by our greed. And when the poor countries start demanding our luxurious diets well see what happens.

It is human nature to be omnivorous and thrive on a diet containing at least a bit of meat, so I accept most people will eat meat, like I do myself. It is inconsistant though of people who consider themselves moral and rational to deny that vegetarians and vegans are more moral than people who consume animal products, because all else being equal they are more moral.

Parchment

Deleted User wrote: »

What annoys me about peoples' meat eating habits is that they just expect there to be unlimited meat available to them forever. They don't feel appropriately anxious or guilty at the thought that, if everyone else also wants to eat lots of meat, more animals will need to be reared and killed to satisfy their demands.

And they treat meat like any economic good - "if it becomes scarce the price will rise and i'll pay more for it" - They don't even consider that the item they are buying off the shelf was an animal that was killed. It's not a loaf of bread or shaving foam.

You see it in the likes of the fitness forums on here - someone suggests they want to lose weight, everyone scrutinises their diet and then says stuff like "cut out the bread, eat more meat" -- it is so ecologically luxurious for millions of humans to demand to get so much of their diet from the highest trophic levels of the food chain so stop not acknowledging it. "Eat more chicken" - yeah, I'm sure the chickens will be happy with that flippantly provided bit of advice, not to mention the farmers who are producing all these chickens and knowing that some individual is eating meat 3 times a day after buying it for 2 euro in lidl.

Also, I wonder how many of these fitness/strength/appearance focussed people would be willing to slaughter the animals themselves for their meat - it's easy to block out reality when its packaged nicely in the supermarket, less so when you see the amount of blood that drains from a slaughtered pig.

People are also apparently ungrateful and with a short memory - in the 90s and before meat was considered much more of a luxury - I doubt many kids going to school in the 80s got lunches with the equivilant protein content of the chicken fillet rolls eaten by the kids of today. If people are going to eat massive amounts of meat, they should at least be grateful for having it available to them. Their descendants won't be so lucky. As a species we're stupid when it comes to our resources - fish species are going to be made extinct by our greed. And when the poor countries start demanding our luxurious diets well see what happens.

It is human nature to be omnivorous and thrive on a diet containing at least a bit of meat, so I accept most people will eat meat, like I do myself. It is inconsistant though of people who consider themselves moral and rational to deny that vegetarians and vegans are more moral than people who consume animal products, because all else being equal they are more moral.

Swoon

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

What annoys me about peoples' meat eating habits is that they just expect there to be unlimited meat available to them forever. They don't feel appropriately anxious or guilty at the thought that, if everyone else also wants to eat lots of meat, more animals will need to be reared and killed to satisfy their demands.

When I go to the butcher I always pick meat that's already dead.

"cut out the bread, eat more meat" -- it is so ecologically luxurious for millions of humans to demand to get so much of their diet from the highest trophic levels of the food chain so stop not acknowledging it.

You could make the same argument about a vegetarian diet, for Irish people it's a luxury made available by international commercialised global food production. Ireland can't grow a lot of the fancy fruit and veg that supplements a vegetarian diet. We can produce a **** load of meat though, more than enough for ourselves and export.

Also, I wonder how many of these fitness/strength/appearance focussed people would be willing to slaughter the animals themselves for their meat - it's easy to block out reality when its packaged nicely in the supermarket, less so when you see the amount of blood that drains from a slaughtered pig.

I'd agree with that, I think meat eaters should be aware of the fact they're taking a life, but not only that, they should be aware of the life that animal has to live. I think if animal welfare is high and welfare isn't too bad in Ireland, better than most countries (could be higher) then it's a fair relationship with our domestic animals.

People are also apparently ungrateful and with a short memory - in the 90s and before meat was considered much more of a luxury - I doubt many kids going to school in the 80s got lunches with the equivilant protein content of the chicken fillet rolls eaten by the kids of today.

Don't know about that, ham and cheese samwedges where common, bacon and cabbage for dinner, meat was always a big part of my families diet. It's easy to get in Ireland, a lot of super foods and imported fruit and veg just wasn't available back then, we had a very narrow selection of foods back then.

That's a good point about the imported fruit and veg Scumlord, I'd prefer it didn't happen personally. I suppose where there's money to be made people will try to fill a gap in the market, environment be damned. I'd personally be happy only to ever eat fruit and veg growable in Ireland, although maybe if I lived in a different country I might not be as happy with the fruit and veg available from being grown domestically.

Also with regards to your last bit about your diet when younger; I was in primary school in the 90s and I cant remember ever getting more than a thin slice of ham in a sandwich, not a patch on the kind of sandwiches considered satisfactory for kids nowadays (admittedly I am guessing here, because if I was sending a kid to school I would imagine if they got the kind of sandwiches I got (usually bread and butter but sometimes with sliced ham or cheese), they would be craving more meat/satisfaction like I was).

As far as dinner is concerned, I got a lot of stuff like savoury mince, maybe one or two sausages or fish fingers and very often just spuds with tinned spaghetti or soup. Seemed normal to me at the time.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a good point about the imported fruit and veg Scumlord, I'd prefer it didn't happen personally. I suppose where there's money to be made people will try to fill a gap in the market, environment be damned. I'd personally be happy only to ever eat fruit and veg growable in Ireland, although maybe if I lived in a different country I might not be as happy with the fruit and veg available from being grown domestically.

It's hard for Ireland to produce those vegetables though, our weather is very unreliable, farmers constantly run the risk of ending up with nothing at the end of the year if it rains to much.

If you go for a drive through the French countryside you'll see that we're mickey mouse compared to the farms over there, you'll see fields that go off into the horizon full of veg. They can obviously produce better veg cheaper and our farmers can't compete.

It's quite clear driving through European countries that we all have crops we're good at growing, France is veg in the north, grain and grape in the south, Spain is grape in the north, fruit in the south. Drive through Ireland and it's cattle and sheep. that's what we can grow well here.

Mooooo

We can grow most crops fairly well bar a few that need warmer climates but harvesting is the issue as the growing season is longer and the weather turns wetter come harvesting. Also contracts from supermarkets really cripple veg farmers as they squeeze the margin

Cosmicfox

I live with a vegan who does it for ethical reasons and they aren't preachy at all. their diet is very limited though and they have very recently started eating eggs again after being vegan for years. Their vegan ingredients aren't exactly cheap and they have to carefully read labels, menus etc.

They sometimes bring me stuff from a vegan place they work at. It's very nice of them to do so but I have to say a lot of the things they bring taste very similar and it must get boring after a while. I wouldn't be able to do it. Vegan cheese is very poor in particular but the chocolate was interesting, strange texture.

I have watched TV series where you see an animal go from field (or factory in some cases) to fork so I know what it all involves. A lot of it wasn't good but it didn't move me enough to cut out animal products. Probably doesn't say much for me but that's how it is. I don't eat huge amounts of meat in fairness, mostly poultry , dairy and fish but I wouldn't turn it down and it's a nice treat every so often.

If I had vegetarian kids I'd try and accommodate that. There's a ways to go but there are plenty of substitute products out there and hopefully more to come.

MadDog76

Deleted User wrote: »

What annoys me about peoples' meat eating habits is that they just expect there to be unlimited meat available to them forever. They don't feel appropriately anxious or guilty at the thought that, if everyone else also wants to eat lots of meat, more animals will need to be reared and killed to satisfy their demands.

And they treat meat like any economic good - "if it becomes scarce the price will rise and i'll pay more for it" - They don't even consider that the item they are buying off the shelf was an animal that was killed. It's not a loaf of bread or shaving foam.

You see it in the likes of the fitness forums on here - someone suggests they want to lose weight, everyone scrutinises their diet and then says stuff like "cut out the bread, eat more meat" -- it is so ecologically luxurious for millions of humans to demand to get so much of their diet from the highest trophic levels of the food chain so stop not acknowledging it. "Eat more chicken" - yeah, I'm sure the chickens will be happy with that flippantly provided bit of advice, not to mention the farmers who are producing all these chickens and knowing that some individual is eating meat 3 times a day after buying it for 2 euro in lidl.

Also, I wonder how many of these fitness/strength/appearance focussed people would be willing to slaughter the animals themselves for their meat - it's easy to block out reality when its packaged nicely in the supermarket, less so when you see the amount of blood that drains from a slaughtered pig.

People are also apparently ungrateful and with a short memory - in the 90s and before meat was considered much more of a luxury - I doubt many kids going to school in the 80s got lunches with the equivilant protein content of the chicken fillet rolls eaten by the kids of today. If people are going to eat massive amounts of meat, they should at least be grateful for having it available to them. Their descendants won't be so lucky. As a species we're stupid when it comes to our resources - fish species are going to be made extinct by our greed. And when the poor countries start demanding our luxurious diets well see what happens.

It is human nature to be omnivorous and thrive on a diet containing at least a bit of meat, so I accept most people will eat meat, like I do myself. It is inconsistant though of people who consider themselves moral and rational to deny that vegetarians and vegans are more moral than people who consume animal products, because all else being equal they are more moral.

When we run out meat we'll just eat vegetarians ...........

milli milli

I know it's already been said, but if you eat fish, you're NOT a vegetarian.
I've even come across 'vegetarians' who eat chicken!

Vegetarians see no difference between cows/pigs/fish/birds.
I'm not preaching, it's just a bugbear of mine.
I don't call myself vegan even if I practically am - I still eat cheese, so I'm NOT a vegan.

Rant over. Carry on! :P

ratsorizzla

Its not a competition - I think it is a good start by replacing warm blooded animals with a vegetarian diet and maybe fish once or twice a month - I mean its easy nowadays - quorn burgers are like beef burgers - linda mc sausages are nearly like real ones and there is loads of stuff you can get online - make seitan - it would be great if everyone turned vegetarian because there would be more stuff in the shops, I have no land where I live I do have access to a garden I can use but its 100 miles away so thats no good to me. But yes give it a go. nobody wants to preach to anybody here - I get angry sometimes about it cos I love animals but I am not a preacher - but I have found that some people just dont care and will always eat meat - and its a big money maker for the govt so they want us all to eat it all the time.

Widdershins

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was watching a cookery programme last night and I was thinking that no matter now many delicious vegetarian dishes you can make, meat is just too damn tasty.

I know that many people are vegetarian for "ethical" reasons but some just don't like meat, period. My sister is a "pescatarian" - she eats veg and fish but no other type of meat. She will happily cook meat for me when I visit and for her OH and children.

Do you think some vegetarians are very preachy about meat eating? I find these people odious and often hypocritical. Vegans? Are they going too far? No dairy, no eggs, no honey even?

Is it OK to raise your children as vegetarians or are you depriving them of vital nutrients? We humans are omnivores by nature, not vegetarians.

I say live and let live but could you go totally veggie?

I'm vegetarian. It was easy for me because the ethical side of it drained any enjoyment I used to get from meat based meals. And there's plenty of substantial vegetables or pulses that can substitute meat in various dishes, as well as vegetarian versions of meat items like veggie sausages , veggie mince, e.t.c. .Veggies get called hypocritical because they wear leather, eat dairy or generally don't commit totally to no-animal-byproducts, but vegans, who do none of these things, are often said to be ''going too far''. You can't win.

Of course it's ok not to feed meat to children. Most of your nutrients don't come from meat-though a lot of people might rely on meat for protein, it can be found from other sources.

Shenshen

ratsorizzla wrote: »

Its not a competition - I think it is a good start by replacing warm blooded animals with a vegetarian diet and maybe fish once or twice a month - I mean its easy nowadays - quorn burgers are like beef burgers - linda mc sausages are nearly like real ones and there is loads of stuff you can get online - make seitan - it would be great if everyone turned vegetarian because there would be more stuff in the shops, I have no land where I live I do have access to a garden I can use but its 100 miles away so thats no good to me. But yes give it a go. nobody wants to preach to anybody here - I get angry sometimes about it cos I love animals but I am not a preacher - but I have found that some people just dont care and will always eat meat - and its a big money maker for the govt so they want us all to eat it all the time.

If that refers to the little rant above, you missed the point a bit.
A person eating fish but calling themselves vegetarian makes life needlessly difficult for actual vegetarians, as it establishes and solidifies the idea among the general public and in particular in the catering world that vegetarians don't eat chicken and beef but do eat fish.

We don't. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked for a vegetarian option when in a restaurant, or office nights out, and was presented with fish. If it's a situation where I get to talk to the waiter beforehand I can usually avoid it, though I have been to places where my remaining choice was a portion of chips with some boiled veg on the side, as all their other dishes contained meat or fish (Thai curries are a particular nightmare in that respect). But in situations where everything was pre-ordered, it left me eating the garnish.

It's not my place to tell you what to do, of course, but please do call yourself pescetarian if that is what you are. You'll be making people's lives a little easier. Thank you.

El_Duderino 09

RockSalto wrote: »

You're also not a vegetarian if you eat fish.

Well that's true but if you start explaining the difference between Vegetarian and ovo-lacto-pescetarian, every time you mentioned your food choice, then you'd be accused of preaching. You'd be surprised by the number of people who think vegetarians eat chicken, so going into detail only confuses the situation unless its actually necessary to clear things up

Beta Ray Bill

1) You don't make friends with salad!

2) You don't get enough energy from Fruit and Veg, you'd need to be grazing nearly all day

3) Plants can hear themselves being eaten alive. http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/plants-can-hear-themselves-being-eaten/
Very Cruel!

ScumLord

Mooooo wrote: »

We can grow most crops fairly well bar a few that need warmer climates but harvesting is the issue as the growing season is longer and the weather turns wetter come harvesting. Also contracts from supermarkets really cripple veg farmers as they squeeze the margin

"Fairly well" is a good way of discribing it, for anyone growing for their own consumption it's fine, but when it comes to making a commercially viable enterprise out of growing veg it becomes much more borderline. It can be done, but there is a big risk the crop will fail due to whether, even growing commercially viable apples is borderline in Ireland, I had a friend that wanted to grow apples in Galway but was told it wouldn't work out because we get to much rain in the west.

ratsorizzla wrote: »

I mean its easy nowadays - quorn burgers are like beef burgers - linda mc sausages are nearly like real ones

I don't think any of those things come close to matching the taste of meat, maybe things have changed recently but compared to the real thing they taste like cardboard, expecting them to taste like real meat probably makes the experience even worse for most meat eaters.

I think I even remember that the makers of these substitutes are trying to avoid comparisons with real meat in their advertising because it will mean disappointment to meat eaters and a reminder to recent vegetarians of what their missing. They'd rather just be labelled as a vegetarian food with no mention of being a meat substitute.

milli milli

Widdershins wrote: »

Veggies get called hypocritical because they wear leather, eat dairy or generally don't commit totally to no-animal-byproducts, but vegans, who do none of these things, are often said to be ''going too far''. You can't win.

As a veggie, I avoid leather where possible - no bags, couches, jackets, etc. Jackets & bags now come in polyurethane so it's easy and cheaper to get a substitute.
But it is hard to get nice non-leather shoes. I do have a lot of shoes and do love fashion. I take some consolation that it's a by-product of the meat trade - not entirely excusable, I know, but there has been many lovely clothes I've passed up so I have made sacrifices in the name of fashion! :P
Oh I would never, ever wear silk though - that's just a cruel material

Vegans don't use animal products because they believe it's exploitation. I agree to a certain extent.