Whats the future of Golf?

thejourney

Many people a saying that VR will be the next big thing for golf in urban areas. I think its fine for those who have never played but would fine it hard to go from grass to a computer screen. With space become more important as the population increases by 2040

I believe driving ranges are going to become more popular instead of people playing a full round. Many people will hide the range 3 times a week instead of playing


Night golf with powered with flood lights with renewable energy solar panel or trubine will be a big thing. This would allow people to play 24/7.


Robots cutting greens will also reduce the price of club membership. perhaps a good course will have renewable water system.


Micro chipped golf balls will never be lost, along with clubs that are stolen.

whats do you thing the future is?

ShriekingSheet

In the nearer future, the notion that we'll be filling out scores on a bit of paper for some poor secretary to open a box of 100 cards to check before results are published hours or days later, is pretty ridiculous.

Ollieboy

thejourney wrote: »

Many people a saying that VR will be the next big thing for golf in urban areas. I think its fine for those who have never played but would fine it hard to go from grass to a computer screen. With space become more important as the population increases by 2040

I believe driving ranges are going to become more popular instead of people playing a full round. Many people will hide the range 3 times a week instead of playing


Night golf with powered with flood lights with renewable energy solar panel or trubine will be a big thing. This would allow people to play 24/7.


Robots cutting greens will also reduce the price of club membership. perhaps a good course will have renewable water system.


Micro chipped golf balls will never be lost, along with clubs that are stolen.

whats do you thing the future is?

What time frame are you talking about? this year or up to 2040?

VR will be a toy for golf but will never replace playing golf, it will have a place in the market but not for golfers.
Flood lighting on courses is to expensive and not liked by golfers due to shadows etc. so I can't really see it working, but you will see some 9 hole courses doing it in holiday locations like Spain etc.
Robots cutting greens or fairways is 10 to 20 years away at least.
Micro chipped balls - not really profitable as balls don't last long enough to be worth while to chip.
Driving Ranges have been around for 50 years, so I am not sure why you think they will get more popular this year, but in the states and Japan they have turn these ranges into kind of gaming areas with targets that light up etc and it's attracting young people to it you actually book a table and play as a group, similar to pin bowling. These places have bars, food etc.

For the normal golfer member I would see the following happening over the next few years:

Less Clubs in Ireland, I reckon we could lose 20 to 30 clubs in the next 10 years.
Less golf societies.
Getting a lot more expensive to play, we are near the end of cheap golf in both green fee's and membership. A lot of clubs have increase their green fees this year and I expect memberships fees to increase next year with some clubs bring back entrance fees. Entrance Fees will always be part of golf clubs due to the current business model they have in place.
New ways of getting golf training, I.e. online, video reviews, VR etc.
More golfers getting into golf fitness etc.
Club houses upgrading and becoming more greener.
Contracting out of the maintenance and marketing of clubs.
Marketing of clubs and offers to become more professional.
Clubs merging together creating more playing options for members.
New trolley boards to transport golfers and there clubs around the course or new buggies that will follow the golfer around the course etc. these are already available but will become more common.
Sat Nav's to become even better with actual fly-overs and up to date competition scoring on them.

mike12

I don't see any courses closing anyone who survived thru the recession should be OK going forward.
For that reason I don't think people will stand for higher fees as there will be enough competition in the market.
Green keepers will be outsourced so maintenance will become cheaper keeping prices down.
There won't be a return to entrance fees and it there is expect more courses to be built if there is that much of a demand.

Think clubs and the GUI have realised rounds need to be quicker so they will keep pushing ready to play and we will get back to 4 hours for a 4ball pace.

Worldwide handicaps from 2018?

Seve OB

that's like saying the premiership will die and footballers will just play FIFA on the PlayStation instead :rolleyes:

CalamariFritti

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

In the nearer future, the notion that we'll be filling out scores on a bit of paper for some poor secretary to open a box of 100 cards to check before results are published hours or days later, is pretty ridiculous.

Most clubs would have a computer based system where you enter your competition scores for years now. So all they need to do is check the winning cards for crossed t's and dotted i's and thats it.

CalamariFritti

Ollieboy wrote: »

...
Micro chipped balls - not really profitable as balls don't last long enough to be worth while to chip.
...

Disagree with that one. Chips cost next to nothing now and a premium ball costs a fiver a piece already.

Generally speaking, a 96-bit EPC inlay (chip and antenna mounted on a substrate) costs from 7 to 15 U.S. cents. If the tag is embedded in a thermal transfer label on which companies can print a bar code, the price rises to 15 cents and up. Low- and high-frequency tags tend to cost a little more.

Ollieboy wrote:

Driving Ranges have been around for 50 years, so I am not sure why you think they will get more popular this year, but in the states and Japan they have turn these ranges into kind of gaming areas with targets that light up etc and it's attracting young people to it you actually book a table and play as a group, similar to pin bowling. These places have bars, food etc.

That sounds like fun actually. Have a golf night out.

CalamariFritti

I could see electronic scorecards with a certified app that everyone in the competition must use or such. We enter the scores while we play and everyone can have an up-to-date leaderboard during the competition. Maybe not that far away. Someone in the States or Japan probably has that already.

tayto lover

Driving ranges only fulfill the need to swing and loosen up..
They will never replace the actual golf course.
I can't stand them.

nuac

I doubt if greenkeeping will ever by automated.

At AGMs some members always want something to complain about, or to show off their knowledge of grass growing and maintenance.

tayto lover

One thing for sure in the future is that there will be a lot more 9-hole competitions due to time constraints. People just don't have the time to play 18 holes regularly.

FixdePitchmark

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I could see electronic scorecards with a certified app that everyone in the competition must use or such. We enter the scores while we play and everyone can have an up-to-date leaderboard during the competition. Maybe not that far away. Someone in the States or Japan probably has that already.

Done already - in fact we have used it at a boards outing.

CalamariFritti

tayto lover wrote: »

One thing for sure in the future is that there will be a lot more 9-hole competitions due to time constraints. People just don't have the time to play 18 holes regularly.

You have the time you make for it I guess.

But generally speaking its mad that, isn't it? Productivity increases every year, has centupled since like I don't know 1970 or so, a thousand things get automated by computers and whatnot and we people are apparently busier than ever. We're not doing it right I think.

CalamariFritti

tayto lover wrote: »

Driving ranges only fulfill the need to swing and loosen up..
They will never replace the actual golf course.
I can't stand them.

Ye I'm not a range guy myself. But as a fun night out thing in a proper setup, like bowling or so, why not?

midnight city

I think the future of the game is reasonably bright. We may lose a few clubs as less people are playing due to time constraints of two working parent families. But it shouldn't be too bad. I don't see VR having any effect on real golf they are totally different markets. Cycling took a few golfers away but i'm seeing them drift back to the game now. They got bored of the cycling.

thejourney

midnight city wrote: »

I think the future of the game is reasonably bright. We may lose a few clubs as less people are playing due to time constraints of two working parent families. But it shouldn't be too bad. I don't see VR having any effect on real golf they are totally different markets. Cycling took a few golfers away but i'm seeing them drift back to the game now. They got bored of the cycling.

why did cycling take people away? Did they want to lose weight or save money?

Is cycling big in Ireland nowadays?

midnight city

thejourney wrote: »

why did cycling take people away? Did they want to lose weight or save money?

Is cycling big in Ireland nowadays?

A lot of men in their 30s took up cycling at weekends and drifted away from the golf. MAMILs they called them, middle aged men in lycra.

thejourney

midnight city wrote: »

A lot of men in their 30s took up cycling at weekends and drifted away from the golf. MAMILs they called them, middle aged men in lycra.

Is cycling even a sport like? Do they race each other ? I don"t see how that possible unless they closed the road

Jesus before I left that was not an Irish thing. Health movement even though they will go home and eat more after :rolleyes::rolleyes:

midnight city

thejourney wrote: »

Is cycling even a sport like? Do they race each other ? I don"t see how that possible unless they closed the road

Jesus before I left that was not an Irish thing. Health movement even though they will go home and eat more after :rolleyes::rolleyes:

They just cycle the roads in all the fancy gear like they are in the tour de france. Can be alone or in large groups. I never really understood the interest in it myself.

searay

The future is already here.

The driving range in Glasson golf club is mowed by 2 robot mowers. The area they mow is programmed in and they go back to the chargers when they are low. The height is set so the balls aren't cut. Saves a lot of time.

FixdePitchmark

midnight city wrote: »

They just cycle the roads in all the fancy gear like they are in the tour de france. Can be alone or in large groups. I never really understood the interest in it myself.

Either can anyone before they get into it.

Bit like golf

thejourney

searay wrote: »

The future is already here.

The driving range in Glasson golf club is mowed by 2 robot mowers. The area they mow is programmed in and they go back to the chargers when they are low. The height is set so the balls aren't cut. Saves a lot of time.

what about course made up entirely of fake grass.

That would be great in Ireland during the winter

I don't think it would be expensive in the long run.

Rikand

thejourney wrote: »

why did cycling take people away? Did they want to lose weight or save money?

Is cycling big in Ireland nowadays?

Mysteriously, yes! A wet country like Ireland, thousands of bikers. At least with golf we have umbrellas and protective clothing.

A lot of my mates wives were giving out they were away all day with golf, so they took up cycling where they are now away 10 hours a day instead of 5.

Cost was another thing. Golf costs too much, so they go out and buy 2 grand bikes.

Ah sure, as long as the wives see sense and they all come back soon enough we'll be alright

dan_ep82

More expensive golf clubs, membership and green fee's seems to be the ways its going.

I'm fine with it though as long as the standard goes up with it.

Rikand

thejourney wrote: »

what about course made up entirely of fake grass.

That would be great in Ireland during the winter

I don't think it would be expensive in the long run.

Might be feasible in the sunny climate you're heading off to, but not here where we have no problems growing grass

slingerz

The fun driving ranges that they have in the states look class have seen them on Snapchat videos but can't think of the franchise name for the life of me.

Looks like good craic too with plenty TVs, food and beer at those venues.

VR would be pretty cool to allow you play the prestige courses of faraway lands

More expensive memberships etc I wouldn't be a fan of, surely we want to grow the game and make it accessible

Competition real time scoring would be great as well in your local club

thejourney

Rikand wrote: »

Mysteriously, yes! A wet country like Ireland, thousands of bikers. At least with golf we have umbrellas and protective clothing.

A lot of my mates wives were giving out they were away all day with golf, so they took up cycling where they are now away 10 hours a day instead of 5.

Cost was another thing. Golf costs too much, so they go out and buy 2 grand bikes.

Ah sure, as long as the wives see sense and they all come back soon enough we'll be alright

Better if they dont dome back, I have no time for deserters who run off when things get hard, while everyone else puts in the hard work at the club during the tough times. Putting up with cut backs at the club. Then when country picks up and the club has more money they all come running back:mad:

ligerdub

I saw a rather smug article recently about the shift from golf to cycling.

The basic premise was that if you were in sales, and organised a golf day rather than cycling then you were probably an inexperienced salesperson.

thejourney

ligerdub wrote: »

I saw a rather smug article recently about the shift from golf to cycling.

The basic premise was that if you were in sales, and organised a golf day rather than cycling then you were probably an inexperienced salesperson.

No skill needed to cycle a bike my 80 year old granny cycles. But there's no way she would be able to break 100 even when she was young.

Cycling aims at the low lowest common denominator of society. Glad golf is not so accessable

Strict dress code and ethics when young make you learn respect for old member at club. Nothing like a sunday morning 3 ball with the captain to teach a young man to grow up

ShriekingSheet

That was a great thread.

For about 10 seconds.

BigChap1759

thejourney wrote: »

what about course made up entirely of fake grass.

That would be great in Ireland during the winter

I don't think it would be expensive in the long run.

I just don't see how in any way that could be considered great - basically like hitting off a Matt every shot.

Golf will adapt as required but I'm pretty sure the bedrock of golfers like golf the way is is save for a few tweaks. I want 18 holes on a well maintained course and am prepared to pay for the privelige.

Numbers/courses may reduce but real golf won't go away - too many people are in love with it, just the way it is

Mantis Toboggan

Indoor golf? Surely the way forward in this country given how wet our winters are.

Also walking the course will be a thing of the past, have you seen those one man carts people have? Fantastic! In 15 years we'll be wondering why we ever walked the entire course just to hit few balls. Rounds therefore would be 2 - 2.5 hours.

CMOTDibbler

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Indoor golf? Surely the way forward in this country given how wet our winters are.

Also walking the course will be a thing of the past, have you seen those one man carts people have? Fantastic! In 15 years we'll be wondering why we ever walked the entire course just to hit few balls. Rounds therefore would be 2 - 2.5 hours.

We really don't have it bad here weather-wise. Plenty of golfers in the US can't play golf for months because of snow and ice. It's not all Florida. On the continent, dry weather can be as much of a problem. Rough dies down to nothing and the grass; although watered, is a thin layer sitting on top of dry topsoil.

Sometimes the wet weather can have the same effect here. Last winter being an example. But this year, I've been able to play every week from October on. And it looks pretty good for this weekend too.

As for motorised carts. No, just no. I certainly wouldn't use them. Buggy rental is cheap in my club and virtually never used by the members.

BigChap1759

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

We really don't have it bad here weather-wise. Plenty of golfers in the US can't play golf for months because of snow and ice. It's not all Florida. On the continent, dry weather can be as much of a problem. Rough dies down to nothing and the grass; although watered, is a thin layer sitting on top of dry topsoil.

Sometimes the wet weather can have the same effect here. Last winter being an example. But this year, I've been able to play every week from October on. And it looks pretty good for this weekend too.

As for motorised carts. No, just no. I certainly wouldn't use them. Buggy rental is cheap in my club and virtually never used by the members.

Spot on - try playing in the west of Scotland over the winter, temporary greens for 4/5 months of the year and mats on many also for the same period. The weather here is very dry/mild by comparison!

The whole point is that, indoor golf, is not golf! If you want to hit a few balls go to the range.

Mantis Toboggan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

We really don't have it bad here weather-wise. Plenty of golfers in the US can't play golf for months because of snow and ice. It's not all Florida. On the continent, dry weather can be as much of a problem. Rough dies down to nothing and the grass; although watered, is a thin layer sitting on top of dry topsoil.

Sometimes the wet weather can have the same effect here. Last winter being an example. But this year, I've been able to play every week from October on. And it looks pretty good for this weekend too.

As for motorised carts. No, just no. I certainly wouldn't use them. Buggy rental is cheap in my club and virtually never used by the members.

No chance, we must be one of the wettest countries in Europe, in my course winter rules will be in place for 6 months, that's just ridiculous.

Also indoor golf will mean teeing off at any time. Right now there's a 3.5 hour window in which to get a full round in making very very hard to even get a game.

Other places might have it worse but if the technology is there why should we settle for 6 months of winter rules? Lots of tennis clubs have been transformed recently with indoor facilities.

Mantis Toboggan

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Spot on - try playing in the west of Scotland over the winter, temporary greens for 4/5 months of the year and mats on many also for the same period. The weather here is very dry/mild by comparison!

The whole point is that, indoor golf, is not golf! If you want to hit a few balls go to the range.

Exactly, would golf in Scotland in winter not improve if it wasn't always soaking wet?

CMOTDibbler

Tyson Fury wrote: »

No chance, we must be one of the wettest countries in Europe, in my course winter rules will be in place for 6 months, that's just ridiculous.

Also indoor golf will mean teeing off at any time. Right now there's a 3.5 hour window in which to get a full round in making very very hard to even get a game.

Other places might have it worse but if the technology is there why should we settle for 6 months of winter rules? Lots of tennis clubs have been transformed recently with indoor facilities.

The best you could hope for in terms of indoor golf is an indoor driving range. Which in terms of covered bays, we already have.

The amount of covered area you'd need just to have one hole is massive. The average golf course is well over 100 acres now.

And what's wrong with winter rules? I know they vary, but at my club it's lift clean and place (fairways) and lift clean and drop (rough) playing off forward tees. It's still golf and still a test.

BigChap1759

Tyson Fury wrote: »

No chance, we must be one of the wettest countries in Europe, in my course winter rules will be in place for 6 months, that's just ridiculous.

Also indoor golf will mean teeing off at any time. Right now there's a 3.5 hour window in which to get a full round in making very very hard to even get a game.

Other places might have it worse but if the technology is there why should we settle for 6 months of winter rules? Lots of tennis clubs have been transformed recently with indoor facilities.

Where exactly "indoors" do you think people could play??

mike12

Golf and cycling have almost the exact same target audience.
Most cyclists are middle age office workers.

Don't think we will loose any courses from now on. More green fees will come into the market as the economy improves.

Keano

This thread does have a place but some posts have been deleted. Don't pick at a post because of spelling or grammar, it's not nice.

Mantis Toboggan

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Where exactly "indoors" do you think people could play??

What do you mean?

This is future golf thread so it's mostly nonsense and just thoughts, I haven't got the patent for it or anything. I do think indoor golf would improve the participation rate. Weather is a deterrent to sports in this country.

Has anyone been to the indoor water park in Berlin? It's fantastic. Friend of mine was there last week, it's freezing outside but the park was packed! Who would have thought, a water park in winter!

ligerdub

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Spot on - try playing in the west of Scotland over the winter, temporary greens for 4/5 months of the year and mats on many also for the same period. The weather here is very dry/mild by comparison!

The whole point is that, indoor golf, is not golf! If you want to hit a few balls go to the range.

Scotland is the country that made the game what it is. The difference there is that they generally play on links courses, and was done so because they could also play in winter.

I played over in Scotland in early 2015. The weather was atrocious for two days. The course, including the greens, even after the worst of the rain, was drained completely within about 5 minutes.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

BigChap1759

ligerdub wrote: »

Scotland is the country that made the game what it is. The difference there is that they generally play on links courses, and was done so because they could also play in winter.

I played over in Scotland in early 2015. The weather was atrocious for two days. The course, including the greens, even after the worst of the rain, was drained completely within about 5 minutes.

Sorry, I'm from Scotland and the above statement is nonsense - if you're a member of a parkland course in the west of Scotland, you are on winter greens for 4/5 months of the year.

BigChap1759

Tyson Fury wrote: »

What do you mean?

This is future golf thread so it's mostly nonsense and just thoughts, I haven't got the patent for it or anything. I do think indoor golf would improve the participation rate. Weather is a deterrent to sports in this country.

Has anyone been to the indoor water park in Berlin? It's fantastic. Friend of mine was there last week, it's freezing outside but the park was packed! Who would have thought, a water park in winter!

So you're talking about building a structure big enough to fit a golf course inside?

I'm not sure the economics of that would work here - fair enough you get it in Japan where courses are at a premium due to shortage of land, or the middle east where cost is irrelevant in a lot of cases.

Who would rather play indoors during the summer 6 months of the year??

Roger_007

I can't see a good future for golf while we have the number of clubs that we have. There are just too many. I play a lot of opens around the country and when you talk to members, they all have the same story: ageing membership and difficulty getting new members. Most clubs have discounted annual subs for older members and consequently their income is falling while costs are rising.
If clubs are not generating enough income to maintain their courses properly they will find it even more difficult to attract new members, green fees, societies etc. Unless some clubs agree to merge with neighbouring clubs, the outlook is not rosy.

mike12

Roger_007 wrote: »

I can't see a good future for golf while we have the number of clubs that we have. There are just too many. I play a lot of opens around the country and when you talk to members, they all have the same story: ageing membership and difficulty getting new members. Most clubs have discounted annual subs for older members and consequently their income is falling while costs are rising.
If clubs are not generating enough income to maintain their courses properly they will find it even more difficult to attract new members, green fees, societies etc. Unless some clubs agree to merge with neighbouring clubs, the outlook is not rosy.

There was nothing but doom and gloom from 2008 when everyone was saying we had too many courses and we would loose 40 or 50 of them.
We lost very few. If there wasn't a big demand there would be no increase in price or talk of joining fees coming back.
Numbers of members will continue to grow but we will see more guys moving clubs rather than spending years at one.

ligerdub

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Sorry, I'm from Scotland and the above statement is nonsense - if you're a member of a parkland course in the west of Scotland, you are on winter greens for 4/5 months of the year.

But the origins are centred around links though? I mean a parkland course is going to be chewed up in that climate. I never said a parkland would be suitable for this time of year.

Seve OB

mike12 wrote: »

There was nothing but doom and gloom from 2008 when everyone was saying we had too many courses and we would loose 40 or 50 of them.
We lost very few. If there wasn't a big demand there would be no increase in price or talk of joining fees coming back.
Numbers of members will continue to grow but we will see more guys moving clubs rather than spending years at one.

there were to many golf courses. probably still are. still many clubs in trouble.

so many clubs as far from full membership and with no joining fees, it makes it easy for players to move around and that's not good for clubs
also cheap golf makes it good for casual golf without needing to join clubs. again not good for clubs
years ago, if you weren't in a club, you could pay and play at some public courses, but you would be doing well to get out at a members club. now you can play those members clubs for little money so hence numbers dropping off.

if members do continue to grow and clubs reach or approach capacity, then there wont be as much opportunity for non members to get in some cheap golf at good courses, which might in turn force them to commit and join a club. I see that as a good thing, but I'm sure others will see that as a bad thing

close down a few more courses, and get those members to fill up other clubs would mean sadness on one hand, but long term survival on the other...

Ollieboy

Seve OB wrote: »

there were to many golf courses. probably still are. still many clubs in trouble.

so many clubs as far from full membership and with no joining fees, it makes it easy for players to move around and that's not good for clubs
also cheap golf makes it good for casual golf without needing to join clubs. again not good for clubs
years ago, if you weren't in a club, you could pay and play at some public courses, but you would be doing well to get out at a members club. now you can play those members clubs for little money so hence numbers dropping off.

if members do continue to grow and clubs reach or approach capacity, then there wont be as much opportunity for non members to get in some cheap golf at good courses, which might in turn force them to commit and join a club. I see that as a good thing, but I'm sure others will see that as a bad thing

close down a few more courses, and get those members to fill up other clubs would mean sadness on one hand, but long term survival on the other...

100% agree. A lot of clubs are still been support by banks/members etc. The only reasons the banks didn't force them out of business is due to some income was better then no income when they couldn't sell the assets. That situation is now changing as we saw with Hollystown who sold 9 holes. So the banks will now force some of the other clubs to sell up and close. It takes a lot of green fees to match the money on offer from developers. I know two clubs in this situation at the moment and I believe both will be gone by the end of next summer as we are getting a lot of there members at the moment due to the current members been aware of the issues.

Also we have 400 course with 160k active members, that's 400 members per club and most clubs need about 800 to operate correctly and offer the proper service/product. Even at the peak we only had 280k members in Ireland. So we need to close a lot of clubs to let the other clubs grow and let them spend money on maintaining and developing there products which will be better in the long run for golf in Ireland and the players.

Kingswood Rover

Hi all a couple of points, People fight very hard to keep their clubs going and very often surviving by the skin of their teeth for years through sheer hard work and bloodymindedness, this is the reason why relatively few have closed considering the what was a extremely difficult number of years. Clubs do not need 800 members to operate "correctly" IMO. if you look at the membership totals of the clubs in Ireland there are a lot of them operating with less than 200 members, some with less than a hundred. Golf is a game for life and at last it seems that the GUI and CGI are pushing this line. Golf also is at a disadvantage when compared to the other popular sports in the country in that a lot of people help out managing coaching training etc with their clubs when their playing days are over and kids come along. In golf your playing days are not over till you are either extremely ill, dead or quit. Of course there are exceptions in every club with members being particularly passionate about coaching their youth but that natural progression does not happen to the same degree in golf when compared to GAA, football, Rugby etc as we are all still playing. To increase the numbers playing Golf, we have to at least strive to make it as accessible for people with no natural ties to the game as other sports, i think we are starting to move along this path but we have a long road ahead.
Just on a general point another thing that does not make sense to me is the way sports facilities are duplicated across multiple sites in a small area for different sports. In the town i live in, like many others we have a GAA club, football club, boxing club, badminton club, pitch and putt club all with ok facilities but none really outstanding. It would make more sense if the town and every town had a sports club that catered for all sports, (economies of scale and all that,) now if these clubs had 30 acres on the edge of town for their 9 hole golf club as well as their 10 acres for the GAA, football, Rugby pitches obviously, well wouldn't that be something. The Provincial Towns trophy might actually be just that and playing for golf for this super sports club at whatever age, would seen as no different than playing GAA, football, Rugby, Chess, Badminton etc.