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Calls to slash the top rate of tax for Irish workers by a huge 7%

  • 03-01-2017 2:03pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭ Hollister11


    https://fora.ie/ireland-marginal-tax-rate-cut-3163822-Dec2016/
    The Small Firms Association wants the marginal tax rate cut from 52% to 45%.

    In its end of year statement issued today, the Small Firms Association (SFA), which represents over 8,500 small businesses in Ireland, also called on the government to increase the entry point for the marginal rate of tax.

    As it stands, the the marginal rate kicks in at €34,000. Ireland’s headline marginal tax rate is 52% for earnings above €70,044, one of the highest in the OECD.

    I think this would be fantastic. The rate of tax is ridiculous. If you gross 100k, you only net 60K. Hardly fair.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    https://fora.ie/ireland-marginal-tax-rate-cut-3163822-Dec2016/



    I think this would be fantastic. The rate of tax is ridiculous. If you gross 100k, you only net 40K. Hardly fair.
    Eh no. If you gross 100k you net just over 60k
    http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

    Thats not factoring in tax relief from the likes of pension contributions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭ Hollister11


    Stheno wrote: »
    Eh no. If you gross 100k you net just over 60k
    http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

    Thats not factoring in tax relief from the likes of pension contributions

    Sorry meant 60K. It's still a disgusting amount of money to take off someone,


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    Sorry meant 60K. It's still a disgusting amount of money to take off someone,

    Who do you think should pay more to offset the liss to the exchequer

    This thread is probably better suited the politics btw i cam move it if you want


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭ Hollister11


    Stheno wrote: »
    Who do you think should pay more to offset the liss to the exchequer

    This thread is probably better suited the politics btw i cam move it if you want

    If you thimk it's a better suit, Sure


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    Moved from work and jobs new charter applies


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,372 ✭✭✭✭ greendom


    what's the cost of such a cut and how will the difference be met ?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭ johnnyskeleton


    greendom wrote: »
    what's the cost of such a cut and how will the difference be met ?

    I think it is a lobbying position from them rather than a costed genuine proposal. If they ask for 7% they might get 1-2% reduction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 boundlessSea


    Current levels of taxation on income above the standard rate cutoff is immoral.

    The tax paid on income between €40,000 and €50,000 is 49% (4900), this is far too high, a person earning €20,000 only pays 7.89% (€1500) in tax, people on lower income should be taxed around 15%, as it is not fair there is such a difference on taxation on income earned. People on lower incomes should pay a lot less in tax than higher earners, but not to this extent, as everyone benefits from state services like health care and education, and income distribution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭ Rightwing


    Current levels of taxation on income above the standard rate cutoff is immoral.

    The tax paid on income between €40,000 and €50,000 is 49% (4900), this is far too high, a person earning €20,000 only pays 7.89% (€1500) in tax, people on lower income should be taxed around 15%, as it is not fair there is such a difference on taxation on income earned. People on lower incomes should pay a lot less in tax than higher earners, but not to this extent, as everyone benefits from state services like health care and education, and income distribution.

    How else could we afford the massive PS wage bill ? ;)

    Paupers on €20K are barely surviving I'd imagine. Punters on the dole must be doing better than them unless you are entitled to family income supports and the 101 other benefits out there that we don't know about.

    You can't really raise taxes on paupers, without cutting dole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭ Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,123 ✭✭✭ amcalester


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It's a great phrase the unions have come up with "Pay Restoration". It implies that salaries were unfairly or temporarily cut and thus should be restored.

    It completely ignoring the fact that the unions agreed to the cuts and the 2008 salaries were too high in the first place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭ Clampdown


    I hate all this pay restoration nonsense. Outside of Dublin it is still difficult to find work. If we could get the still massive amount of unemployed people into full time work (not schemes), then sure, go ahead and restore pay/cut tax. But if you only do the latter than all you're doing is helping the people who were hurt least by the recession, who kept their jobs, not those of us left with nothing. We're still being left behind other than being forced into useless schemes that get you nowhere.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Borderfox


    I'd prefer to see the tax rate left alone but the amount at which you pay the top rate raised


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭ Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭ Billy86


    Take home pay, annually...

    20k - €18,548.27 (92.7%)
    25k - €21,756.94 (87%)
    35k - €28,616.94 (81.8%)
    50k - €36,266.94 (72.5%)
    75k - €48,868.26 (65.2%)
    100k - €60,868.26 (60.9%)
    150k - €84,868.26 (56.6%)
    250k - €132,868.26 (53.1%)
    500k - €252,868.26 (50.6%)
    1mn - €492,868.26 (49.3%)
    1bn - €480,012,868.26 (48%) - because feck it, curiousity.

    http://ie.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php (used this for my own paychecks a few times and it's always correct to the penny)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭ Halloween Jack


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    If we are talking about entities making a contribution to society they profit from and being effectively 'out of the tax net' then its companies we want be focusing on. Not the workers who will spend the vast majority of their disposable income in the economy at large anyway, whereas our glorious multinationals will of course expatriate every penny 'earned' here


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭ Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,222 ✭✭✭ fliball123


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Even without any payrises it has already reached 2008 pay levels the payrises being asked for will push it higher


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭ oscarBravo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Coupled with this, you can't increase tax rates on multinationals and leave them low for indigenous businesses, so you're disincentivising local businesses as well.

    Like every simplistic answer to a complex problem, the "make businesses pay taxes so I don't have to" populist rallying cry makes very little sense on any level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭ Godge


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Even without any payrises it has already reached 2008 pay levels the payrises being asked for will push it higher

    That simply isn't true.


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  • Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭ Isabelle Microscopic Barber


    Wish they'd do something for the likes of small earning self employed. Friend made 20k last year. He's self employed so had to give 20% of it to revenue. Would actually be better unemployed i'd imagine (not sure if he's entitled to medical card or the likes).


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,627 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stheno


    Wish they'd do something for the likes of small earning self employed. Friend made 20k last year. He's self employed so had to give 20% of it to revenue. Would actually be better unemployed i'd imagine (not sure if he's entitled to medical card or the likes).

    Is he single? If he was due to pay 1800 in paye, 800 in PRSI and 393 in USC if his credits are correct so a total of 2093 not 4000


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭ Rightwing


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    There may just be a few other reasons as well, such as, on the doorstep to the EU market, educated workforce, stable political environment, English speaking country.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Coupled with this, you can't increase tax rates on multinationals and leave them low for indigenous businesses, so you're disincentivising local businesses as well.

    Like every simplistic answer to a complex problem, the "make businesses pay taxes so I don't have to" populist rallying cry makes very little sense on any level.

    I'd imagine most indigenous businesses wouldn't mind paying the Apple/Google/Facebook tax rate. ;)




  • y'all seem confused.

    public sector workers pay tax. they are taxpayers.

    plenty of public sector workers earn in or around the 20k mark.

    plenty of private sector workers werent particularly badly hit in the recession.

    this thread was due to be about a proposed cut to the top rate of marginal tax, but in only two pages the above already needed pointing out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭ Halloween Jack


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    yeah they are here because our politicians are cheap to buy and they can decide themselves how much tax they pay. As for whether I like it or not? I don't like it, it's a strategy devoid of imagination that cannot succeed in the long term...


  • Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭ Isabelle Microscopic Barber


    Stheno wrote: »
    Is he single? If he was due to pay 1800 in paye, 800 in PRSI and 393 in USC if his credits are correct so a total of 2093 not 4000

    I've no idea how it works out, but he had a reputable enough local accountant do it for him (so I'd presume it was all calculated correctly).

    He is single, yeah. Accountant pretty much just said it's 20% of what you make.

    That said, his accountant could well be a lazy git. If you've any further info on your comment there feel free to share as I'm not exactly in a very different boat myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭ Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭ Rightwing


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Too simplistic.
    Considering Bulgaria and Bosnia have a 10% C tax rate, why haven't these countries been so successful ? Their must be more.

    Companies are very select in where they choose to set up. Myriad of factors are always taken into account. Like it or not, Ireland scores well in most of these, including corporation tax rate.

    https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭ Halloween Jack


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Too simplistic.
    Considering Bulgaria and Bosnia have a 10% C tax rate, why haven't these countries been so successful ? Their must be more.

    Companies are very select in where they choose to set up. Myriad of factors are always taken into account. Like it or not, Ireland scores well in most of these, including corporation tax rate.

    https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html

    They big companies aren't paying anywhere near 10%, that's why they are here, The sweetheart deals they get make sure of that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭ Suryavarman


    If we are talking about entities making a contribution to society they profit from and being effectively 'out of the tax net' then its companies we want be focusing on. Not the workers who will spend the vast majority of their disposable income in the economy at large anyway, whereas our glorious multinationals will of course expatriate every penny 'earned' here

    The burden of corporation tax mostly falls on the shoulders of workers. If you increase corporation tax then you are just going to reduce wages.
    They big companies aren't paying anywhere near 10%, that's why they are here, The sweetheart deals they get make sure of that.

    There are few loopholes in the Irish corporate tax code. Pretty much every MNC here is paying over 10% and close to 12.5% on their Irish profits.


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