Money Troubles

LegacyUser

Reg User but going anon for this. Thanks in advance for listening.

Been with my partner over 5 years. Both early 30s. Living together two years. Both very average paying jobs. Far less than 100k salary between us.

I'll start by saying that I love my partner very much. We get on exceptionally well. We have similar interest in activities, food, ways of life, music, movies. We share the same group of friends. He is a great person and is my best friend. Until this week, we were always having fun together.

A lot of our friends have been getting mortgages, getting married and having kids lately which has put pressure on us to do the same. He has mentioned marriage a lot lately / He has said he is very excited he is about it. Its not something I am in a rush to do, but I would love to marry him in the near future [next couple of years].

Heres the issue: In light of the above, we saw a mortgage broker a couple of months back. Given our salaries, we were told that getting a mortgage is going to be a challenge. Personally, I have no debt and have a decent bit saved from over the years. He, though has a lot of loans he is paying back: i.e. education [he studied abroad which cost a lot] , a car loan and loan he took out to cover a big holiday he did last year with his mates etc. With all of this, the odds are stacked against us but I have been optimistic that we will find a way around it, he said he was too.

In early summer, we set about a major plan to save and opened a new joint account. It was a plan we agreed together and he drove the plan. I've been putting a big effort into putting money into this account. I cut out all of my regular luxuries to do this and believed he was doing the same.

Earlier this week, I came home from a week working abroad to find out that he had used up all of the savings in our joint account to treat himself for Christmas - clothes, gadgets, a new bike. I was livid. He said he just wanted to treat himself for the Christmas and got a bit carried away. Its unlikely that we'll be able to return most of what he purchased as they have been used. To add to that, he admitted that his own account is now maxed out too. He has just enough to get him by for Christmas. It's highly likely that I will have to help support him financially until his January pay slip.

I don't know how to feel. He has apologized repeatedly. I can't comprehend how he could do this. I've lost hope that we will ever get a mortgage or pay for a wedding at this rate.

I feel that he has put a big damper on our Christmas and I am very uncertain about everything now. Am I blowing this out of proportion?

Tigger99

No I don't think you are blowing it out of proportion. It's a really crappy selfish thing to do. It also sounds like he waited until you were away as he knew what your reaction would be. Also he's just wasted 6 months of your savings on what seems like a whim.

Nevermind the apology I'd sit down with him and ask him, really ask him what's going on. I wonder is there an element of self sabotage at play with him. Spend all the savings and it puts the brakes on planning a future together. Or is there something else at play. Does he gamble?

What would happen if you weren't living together? How would he survive until January money wise? If I were you I'd be cancelling your direct debit to the joint account.

BrokenWingz

You are not blowing it out of proportion at all. The idea of a joint savings account to me is that neither party gets to spend it without discussion except in a real emergency. After your giving up even small treats he blows all the money on himself, I would be livid too. Did he put any money in that account? I would think twice about putting your money in a joint account again after such blatant disregard of your supposedly joint goals. I don't suppose he spent any of that money on you for the Christmas in the rush to "treat himself"?! Selfish is the nicest thing I can say about that sort of behaviour.

Ursus Horribilis

Money is one of the biggest causes of breakups and divorces. So in my opinion you're certainly not blowing this out of all proportion. As to where you go from here I've no idea but he has certainly broken your trust. All you can do, I think, is try to get to the bottom of why his urge to "treat himself" became such a crazy splurge. Does he have a tendency to be impulsive or compulsive?

Gangu

Talk to him. But there is no way I would sub him until his next payslip, or buy him a drink even. It's sending the message that it's ok and you're a safety net. The way I see it he stole from you. I'd stop paying money into the account and have him set up a repayment scheme. That's just me though. I am funny about people stealing from me and taking me for a mug.

Loveinapril

Wow, OP, you are right to be angry. I would be livid. In my eyes, he essentially stole from you. The joint account money was set aside for something else and he used it without your permission. I would certainly not be putting money into it until he has repaid what you contributed at least. You should really rethink if you can trust him with this. You may need to revert back to saving on your own and getting him to organise himself. My husband is rubbish with money, but it is always his own money he spends. When we had a joint account, neither of had access to the cards. We never opened the pin number and the cards stayed in a file. It was just for depositing and direct debits. Could you agree to something like this for the future?

amdublin

What was even doing going near the joint account??

I'd be selling everything on adverts and trying to recoup even just 25% of the money. That's selfish and immature to think he needs treats rather than saving for your future as you both had agreed.

AndyBoBandy

If he is serious in his apologies, I would ask him to sell some of what he bought? Gadgets should still command a high price of still fairly new, I'd ask him to commit to selling as much as he can if he is truly sorry.

handlemaster

no joint account. sone people cant manage finances.

Ursus Horribilis

handlemaster wrote: »

no joint account. some people can't manage finances.

This may end up having to be your long term solution if he's not good with money. Separate accounts for you both and a joint one that he pays into but can't access.

Pawwed Rig

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

This may end up having to be your long term solution if he's not good with money. Separate accounts for you both and a joint one that he pays into but can't access.

That was my thought too but it seems a bit controlling imo. If he can't behave like an adult then the OP needs to seriously assess this situation.
I would be asking him to deliver pizzas at night until the current account is restored along with maintaining his normal contributions.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I would be absolutely livid if I was you op. I know people will say I'm over reacting but I would seriously be considering the future of the relationship after this stunt. He drove setting up the account, knew how much you were putting into it, and still went and took all the money for himself. Hes untrustworthy, terrible with long term planning and selfish.

That's my take, but bear in mind I'm a bit strange about money. This kind of thing annoys me so much.

Loveinapril

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That was my thought too but it seems a bit controlling imo. .

I presume this would just be him paying what he owes, no? He couldn't be trusted before so I don't think it is unreasonable that he pays it back without being able to use it to 'treat' himself.

professore

This is a disaster. If you marry this guy you are setting yourself up for a miserable life. He is fundamentally dishonest. This goes deeper than money. Basically he doesn't care about you at all.

Ursus Horribilis

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That was my thought too but it seems a bit controlling imo. If he can't behave like an adult then the OP needs to seriously assess this situation.
I would be asking him to deliver pizzas at night until the current account is restored along with maintaining his normal contributions.

I know, I know But if the OP wants a future with this guy and he's rubbish with money, then maybe it's something that could be considered. With his agreement of course.

bee06

I'd be absolutely raging. This would be a deal breaker to me. Financial common sense and stability is important to me and I'd hate the feeling that I couldn't trust my partner with money.

Gangu

professore wrote: »

This is a disaster. If you marry this guy you are setting yourself up for a miserable life. He is fundamentally dishonest. This goes deeper than money. Basically he doesn't care about you at all.

Imagine standing in a shop and handing over money your other half worked hard for, for your joint future? If you'd have any conscience or love for the person you couldn't the guilt would be too much. I agree with you. There's a flaw in someone who would do that. But then again look at the op original post. Already talking about subbing him for his own overspending. Shocking and sad.

s15r330

Get rid, he is bad news!! As another poster ssid, you are setting yourself up for trouble.

listermint

As has already been said. This is quite serious perhaps your oh doesn't realise how serious if you sub him you give a pass for this behaviour for life. It's not on though.

Any major spends with anything related to joint money has to be discussed and not a one sided discussion. It has to be talked out.

This was not on and tbh it can't work into the future with kids and mortgages.

If this lad is truly serious about you and not in the I love you babes I really do sort of way then he will make serious effort to sell all of it. It's selfish juvenile behaviour and shouldnt be tolerated at this juncture of your relationship. You may get away with wishy washy money spend early in when you are in your early twentys or late teens when finding your feet but most definitely not when marriage and mortgages are seriously on the table.


Lad needs a reality check pronto

LynnGrace

Huge breach of trust, selfish and dishonest IMO. I'd second the idea that some of the stuff should be sold. It would really make me wonder if the relationship can survive.

LLMMLL

OP I don't think the issue is about trust or selfishness or anything like that. They're all.issies but The main issue is your bf and his treatment of money. Maybe this is a once off but maybe you're only seeing what could be a very serious problem now because this is the first time he's had money to spend. Given that you made a decision to save it seems like you've been spending all your money until now. It's quite possibly his natural inclination to spend anything he has. The way he went about it makes it and the things he spent it on make it sound like a compulsion rather than a treat after a long period of frugal spending. Of course there is a tendency on the internet to blow things out of proportion so ignore this if it doesn't sound like your bf.

Rosie Gold

I would be fuming if that was my partner to the point I don't know if I could be with him. My partner is atrocious with money, when he asked me to marry him I told him he would have to pay for the wedding himself or it wasn't happening. I'm saving for the mortgage and I have more saved than my partner on a much smaller salary. I can scrimp and do without more than him. All of that said, my partner wouldn't go off behind my back and spend money on himself. How
flipping selfish!

I would honestly give him X amount of time to get his act together. As one poster has already stated, money issues is the number one cause of divorce and separation. Wait until you may have children, a mortgage to pay, food to pay, never ending bills related to house and children. If he's going to think about himself only, you're in for a rough ride.

I think you also need to keep your money separate. If you're not paying a mortgage or bills then no way do you need to pool your money yet. He needs to show you that he can be responsible! If he can't then send him on his new bike literally.

looksee

OP there are two possible outcomes here. One is that you continue as you are and live on the edge of concern that you cannot trust him not to clear out your savings. The other is that you take control of the finances and live with the resentment that he will eventually build up.

Subbing him is definitely out of the question. If he needs cash then he sells the stuff he has bought. That will not, of course, get your money back, but it will make him take a bit of responsibility.

I could not imagine continuing to live with someone so feckless and selfish, but that is a decision you have to make yourself. The writing was on the wall when he took out a loan for a holiday while already having student and car loans. (How did he even manage that? There are not too many lenders who would release money for a holiday while there was so much else outstanding.)

daisybelle2008

OP his attitude to money over the years would give me major red flags.
Getting a loan out for a lads holiday, when he has a stack up of loans dating back to college, is in his thirties and living with his partner? If he hasn't spare disposable after loans and household, how is he even considering a 'big lads holiday' instead of paying off loans sooner. He has no responsibility when it comes to money and treating himself seems to be more important than a halfway decent credit score. What discussions were had about that holiday?

What he did with your joint account is theft, plain and simple. Of course he is all talk about marriage and joint accounts, you are a soft touch when it comes to money. Honestly I would have been dug out of him. 'Gadgets and a bike' Jesus wept, I'd have him put every last thing he owns on donedeal (not just his new treats)

sozbox

He spent your house deposit on treats for himself?! You're going out with a child who will not be able to get serious about life until he grows up!

Most guys grow out of lads holidays and gadgets in their late 20s. I'd be livid at this, you need to make a stand on this or he will never change

AndyBoBandy

sozbox wrote: »

He spent your house deposit on treats for himself?! You're going out with a child who will not be able to get stupid about life until he grows up!

This.

And given the current climate re deposits required for mortgages etc.with lending stricter than ever, coupled with ever rising house prices (again), anyone looking to get on the housing ladder really needs to be smarter with their money/savings/need for gadgets...

I'm a man in my mid thirties, I like my few gadgets as well, but first & foremost are the bills/mortgage/food for my partner & my son, if afterwards there is something left, occasionally I might treat myself, but only if all of the above are satisfied first.

Penalty

OP I don't post much but with this I couldn't hold back.

Your bf spent the deposit for your house which you saved up probably to a greater degree on a bike and gadgets. I think that's all you need to know - juar let that sink in and realise what that means. 6 months of your savings gone because he wanted to treat himself!!!!

Everyone here is on the same page the only difference is how extreme your reaction should me.

For what it's worth I'd be finishing this relationship asap - he's not a grown up and has no respect for you - this is one of the most selfish things i've heard.

If you stay with him be prepared for a very hard life with you trying your best to make ends meet while he throws money away.

It's possible for different people to get along but in this case the extremes are too much.

Going a step further I'd say he's a waste of space and will also try to sponge of you.

To put my perspective in context. I'm actually pretty bad with money in that I spend too much - however I have a decent income and when I do over spend I do it on my wife and kids and myself - probably treat myself less than anyone else. When I buy clothes for example I always tell my wife to buy something and get something for the kids.

Johngoose

I'd leave him too, that was a very scummy thing to do,unforgivable really.

LegacyUser

Imagine if you'd come home and he'd sold a few of your things on eBay for cash so he could treat himself, everyone here would be saying "move out, move on". What he has done isn't much different, he took money you had saved for his own uses.

He doesn't respect you, and honestly, he doesn't love you. No one who really loved someone else would be so disrespectful of what ye were trying to save. He basically stole from ye're future together so he could enjoy himself today. Amazing while he was spending all the money he didn't bother to buy you anything.

I know this comes across as unbelievably harsh but do you want to spend your life being his accountant and his minder? Do you want to worry every time you check your accounts what damage he has done? Do you want to scrimp and save only for him to blow it on himself? You are worth more than that, everyone is.

I would honestly view this as one of the lowest things a partner can do, he cashed in your hopes for his fun. Selfish doesn't even begin to cover it.

looksee

I have just re-read the op and I am struck by the fact that he is talking about marriage. I think, from his actions, he is looking for security. I have seen a situation a bit like this before, he can be 'all things' to you while it suits him. He works on a principle of 'do it and apologise later'. The apology costs him nothing and he still has the stuff.

I don't think you should make yourself responsible for his attitude to money and anything else that requires integrity and trust. Will the next splurge be another holiday with the lads?

Close the joint account. Separate your finances completely and each pay into expenses - you could manage that money without causing resentment. Make him pay his share and don't sub him. Tell him marriage is out of the question until he has paid off his loans - he can increase his repayments if necessary. Work out now what you own in your home and what he does, get him to acknowledge this.

I suggest you should just move out completely and leave him to manage his own affairs, but you need time to accept the level of your attachment. However I think that when the security rug (you) is pulled out from under him he may well go off and look for another person to support him. Do you really just want to be a support system for someone who is superficially charming enough to keep you on a hook?

GingerLily

If I did this my partner would leave me and u wouldn't blame him, it's such a betrayal. No advice OP, just wanted to tell you that your not over reacting.

MissShihTzu

Can I ask? How did he get access to the savings - is it set up so that either one of you can draw??

And yes, I'm with the others. Fundamentally, he stole from YOU! Do you see that? Make him sell his goodies, and make a commitment that he pays you back the remainder of the money he took. Ask him to set up a SO for regular monthly payments into YOUR bank/savings account.

If you are serious about having a future together, I would be sitting him down and reading him the riot act. Give him a serious verbal kicking. Make it very plain that if he pulls this stunt again, you'll be off down the road so fast, his head will spin. I would also set the account so that he can pay in, but most certainly will not be allowed to draw!

Hope this helps and don't let this spoil your Christmas!

EDIT - Oh and I would not be subbing him for the month either. Apart from the rent as you need a roof over your head, I would be giving him sod all else. If he can't hear, he must feel!

daisybelle2008

Westieanon wrote: »

He has mentioned marriage a lot lately

Personally, I have no debt and have a decent bit saved from over the years. He, though has a lot of loans he is paying back: i.e. education [he studied abroad which cost a lot] , a car loan and loan he took out to cover a big holiday he did last year with

I have been optimistic that we will find a way around it, he said he was too
?

OP with his attitude to your joint savings as being HIS fun and treat money, I guarantee he sees YOUR savings as there to cover HIS loans and debts. Marriage will ensure that for him. Of course is optimistic ye'll find 'a way around it' that way is your savings.

Pawwed Rig

Show him this thread

lawred2

No you're not blowing it out of proportion. He sounds like a selfish child.

Bad enough he spent the money... But not even on treating you at Christmas. He looked after himself.

Get rid.

Rachiee

OP his behaviour is utterly shocking. Its disgracefully childish and selfish and yes is stealing. After all the sacrifices you made over the past 6 months to build a future together he took that and bought rubbish.
It sounds like you really love him and want to make your relationship work but this issue needs to be addressed or resentment will build up. Firstly lay out to him that he essentially stole from you and that as sorry as he is he needs to actually pay you back. Dont put another penny into the account until he single-handedly gets it back up to the original amount. Anything that can be sold do so. sorry isnt good enough he needs to take responsibility and start making sacrifices.

afkasurfjunkie

Does the cost of the stuff he bought add up to the entirety of the money that was in the account? I find it odd that he would empty the account to get a bike and a few gadgets. I'd be more worried that it's a cover for a deeper spending/gambling habit?

leggo

Not much to add here, except have you seen the stuff OP? From what you said at the start to what he did, is there a possibility he got you an engagement ring for Christmas? Still a crazy move and worth evaluating, but it jarred with me how inconsiderate and sudden this was compared to how you described him initially and said you had no problems until this week.

tara73

looksee wrote: »

I have just re-read the op and I am struck by the fact that he is talking about marriage. I think, from his actions, he is looking for security.

this. I was wondering, what's behind this absolutely shocking and horrible act, somebody else wrote he might want to sabotage the upcoming marriage but I think this is even more true.

he's showing you (prob subconsciously), now the marriage thing is getting nearer, his real character and attitude and he wants to find out if you put up with it.

OP, I feel for you, only you can make the right decision for yourself but as so many others have said here, do you really want to put up yourself for a life with this man, not knowing what he will do next moneywise? even when you don't have a joint account anymore, if he spends all of his money in a whim to treat himself, how can you have a mortgage with this person, how can you have kids?
It's tough but you need to reconsider this relationship.

And to see the positive in the negative, you can be in a way thankful he showed this attitude now, before the marriage and not after.

Big Bag of Chips

Gambling was my first thought too. If he earns enough to live on then he should be comfortably able to live, pay off loans and save even a small amount. You're not his mother. You shouldn't have to mind him and clean up his mess after him.

Funny how first chance he got your back turned he more or less emptied the account. You're his meal ticket. His cash flow provider for when his is gone. He's now at the point where he's not even asking you to sub him, he's just taking it. I'd be having a long hard talk. I'd be looking for receipts and I'd be thinking something deeper than gadgets and a bike.

Gambling/drugs/money lenders?

Unless you get to the bottom of it, you have a lifetime of pain ahead of you.

Edit: I would suggest not giving him any extra cash in January. Obviously you will pay his share of the rent, food and bills because you'll have little choice, but I wouldn't be giving him money for nights out. Although you can be sure he'll find it somewhere! I'd wonder how many of his friends he owes money to too? My friends husband had a gambling problem. When it eventually came to a head she discovered he owed many of their friends, including me, hundreds. Always borrowed for some "surprise" or other he wanted to treat her to. My brother in law has a drug problem and owes thousands to family, friends and drug dealers!

Even if it's not drugs or gambling and he's just really bad with money, he has probably still borrowed various sums from your friends.

MissShihTzu

It might be gambling. It might even be (God forbid) drugs. But the OP has stated that her partner bought clothes, gadgets and a bike. Presumably, she has seen the items in question. I seriously doubt it's bling whether it be a ring or not! The partner sounds entirely too self-absorbed, immature and selfish to think of getting something nice for her...

Thinking about it, it might be possible that he did indeed buy these things and emptied the account in the process. I would follow BBOC's suggestion and also ask for receipts/statements showing where this money went. If the OP finds large cash withdrawals, then that's a big red flag it might be gambling or drugs, and I would asking VERY hard questions.

I see the OP has not returned to the thread as yet. I sincerely hope she hasn't been put off by the points raised, and will take them on board.

Emme

His attitude to the OP can be summed up as follows:

What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine:rolleyes:

OP do not put another cent into a joint account with him and if you want to save open your own account and don't let him know. His actions are disgraceful - if I were you I would be having serious thoughts about the relationship.

The Princess Bride

Westieanon wrote: »

Earlier this week, I came home from a week working abroad to find out that he had used up all of the savings in our joint.

To add to that, he admitted that his own account is now maxed out too. He has just enough to get him by for Christmas. It's highly likely that I will have to help support him financially until his January pay slip.

I don't know how to feel. He has apologized repeatedly. I can't comprehend how he could do this. I've lost hope that we will ever get a mortgage or pay for a wedding at this rate.

I feel that he has put a big damper on our Christmas and I am very uncertain about everything now. Am I blowing this out of proportion?

I can't comprehend it either.
Just how much did he spend here?

As for supporting him until his next pay cheque, you don't have to.

Life is about making choices.
He chose to blow the savings. You didn't.
You do have some serious choices to make now, however.

ongarboy

leggo wrote: »

Not much to add here, except have you seen the stuff OP? From what you said at the start to what he did, is there a possibility he got you an engagement ring for Christmas? Still a crazy move and worth evaluating, but it jarred with me how inconsiderate and sudden this was compared to how you described him initially and said you had no problems until this week.

If it was an engagement ring, I'd be furious with that too if all my savings from the last six months went on that without my permission while I deprived myself other things. I'd also be annoyed that a partner would get himself further into debt buying rings of that value even if it was his own money when he had so many outstanding loans. An engagement ring, no matter how romantic the gesture, is a luxury item that should not have money spent on it if that money isn't there or is his to begin with. A far more romantic gesture is love, trust, respect, honesty, consideration and communication. OP has received none of this judging by this guy's behaviour. Normally I look to salvage relationships if I'm asked for advice but this behaviour is not red flag territory, it's game over territory! Sorry OP, if he's capable of this now, what else will he do in the future? I'd be giving him marching orders here!

woodchuck

I know people have mentioned gambling etc, but if you've seen the things he's spent it on (you mentioned gadgets etc) it's possible that he's just extremely bad with money. However it's one thing being bad with your own money... it's another thing entirely being bad with money from a joint savings account!! You're not over reacting at all OP. I'd be having a serious talk with him about this. Tbh I'm not sure I'd trust him with a joint bank account...

leggo

ongarboy wrote: »

If it was an engagement ring, I'd be furious with that too if all my savings from the last six months went on that without my permission while I deprived myself other things. I'd also be annoyed that a partner would get himself further into debt buying rings of that value even if it was his own money when he had so many outstanding loans. An engagement ring, no matter how romantic the gesture, is a luxury item that should not have money spent on it if that money isn't there or is his to begin with. A far more romantic gesture is love, trust, respect, honesty, consideration and communication. OP has received none of this judging by this guy's behaviour. Normally I look to salvage relationships if I'm asked for advice but this behaviour is not red flag territory, it's game over territory! Sorry OP, if he's capable of this now, what else will he do in the future? I'd be giving him marching orders here!

I don't disagree, it's just her OP made him out to be a decent guy until this week with no track record of this kind of behaviour, and also someone who prioritised marriage over the mortgage. So this could be a kind of way of forcing her hand under the guise of a romantic gesture. Again, not excusable, but there's a difference between a guy blowing money on treats for himself and a guy messing up doing what he thinks is a good thing his partner will be happy with, so it's worth considering.

lawred2

leggo wrote: »

I don't disagree, it's just her OP made him out to be a decent guy until this week with no track record of this kind of behaviour, and also someone who prioritised marriage over the mortgage. So this could be a kind of way of forcing her hand under the guise of a romantic gesture. Again, not excusable, but there's a difference between a guy blowing money on treats for himself and a guy messing up doing what he thinks is a good thing his partner will be happy with, so it's worth considering.

No track record? He took himself off on a holiday with his mates using borrowed money.. Money that she effectively has to pay back

The lad's a gobshoite

MissShihTzu

OP - Over a large glass of wine, perhaps you should now be listing the goodies on Done Deal. That way your partner will know you're not mucking about...

thierry14

You don't want to be wasting time in your 30's OP

Especially as a female for obvious reasons.

Any man in a relationship, in his early 30's that takes out a loan for a lads holiday has issues.

It's just not normal behaviour.

LegacyUser

There's every chance that your OH just put the marriage card out there as a means to open a joint back account,& access your finances without actually having to commit to you in a real& tangible sense.
Stealing your hard-earned money to pay for frivolities is a massive breach of trust.
To add insult to injury, note that HE was the sole beneficiary. And he waited til you were working abroad to do the deed. The selfishness of it is actually breath-taking ; what exactly was he planning to give you for Christmas?!

Big Bag of Chips

Even if he's using all the gadgets and whatever else as a cover for an engagement ring, the good would be gone out of it for me. I'd almost consider that the plan was to "treat himself" and buy a ring as well so that you couldn't give out too much about what he bought for himself.

And he didn't treat himself. To treat himself he would have had to use his own money.