Mixed race people

mordeith

Lewis Hamilton, Barrack Obama and Trevor Noah are all children of one black and one white parent. Why then are they always referred to as black? Fair enough they have darker skin than 'white' people but genetically it's 50/50

tony1kenobi

It's because they are black.

RobertKK

...and surely they also benefit from hybrid vigour/heterosis.

Yourself isit

tony1kenobi wrote: »

It's because they are black.

It does actually depend on skin colour. Plenty of white or light skinned mixed race folks not called black.

For instance "black" actress told she's looking well tan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2926366/I-m-ethnic-Rashida-Jones-shocked-response-told-s-tan-SAG-Awards-red-carpet.html

CINCLANTFLT

https://youtu.be/yGIgnscRz6Q

Grayson

Yourself isit wrote: »

It does actually depend on skin colour. Plenty of white or light skinned mixed race folks not called black.

For instance "black" actress told she's looking well tan.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2926366/I-m-ethnic-Rashida-Jones-shocked-response-told-s-tan-SAG-Awards-red-carpet.html

I think it was Stephen Fry who was in Kenya and they said if Obama was president there he'd be the first white president.

The_Valeyard

#mixedlivesmatter

eviltwin

mordeith wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton, Barrack Obama and Trevor Noah are all children of one black and one white parent. Why then are they always referred to as black? Fair enough they have darker skin than 'white' people but genetically it's 50/50

So does Mariah Carey but she's never classed as black. Some people lean more to one side hence the description.

NiallBoo

The whole modern concept of race* comes from some 18/19th century anthropologists. That were more looking to back up their opinion that white people were superior than anything else.

Going with this, having black genes meant that you were damaged goods and didn't deserve to be called white.

It amazes me that we still cling to these ideas and that still one of our primary ways of grouping people is based on a genetic variance in melatonin production.

Why not hair colour or height?

And why are the caucuses such a big deal? We're all from Africa anyway.

(*prior to the late 18th century, this simply meant any group of people with something in common)

Yourself isit

NiallBoo wrote: »

The whole modern concept of race comes from some 18/19th century anthropologists. That were more looking to back up their opinion that white people were superior than anything else.

Going with this, having black genes meant that you were damaged goods and didn't deserve to be called white.

It amazes me that we still cling to these ideas and that still one of our primary ways of grouping people is based on a genetic variance in melatonin production.

Why not hair colour or height?

And why are the caucuses such a big deal? We're all from Africa anyway.

The caucuses are not a big deal outside the US.

NiallBoo

Yourself isit wrote: »

The caucuses are not a big deal outside the US.

Thank goodness.

They make a bloody big deal of skin colour in general.

Help!!!!

mordeith wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton, Barrack Obama and Trevor Noah are all children of one black and one white parent. Why then are they always referred to as black? Fair enough they have darker skin than 'white' people but genetically it's 50/50

Trevor Noah would be considered " coloured " in his native South Africa. A lot of mixed race people do not consider themselves " black " but are labelled it by others in countries like the UK or US. In an African country a mixed raced person would not be considered " black " by black people.

mordeith

Floating Voater wrote: »

How come when you see a mixed couple on TV or in films it's always a black man with a white woman?

This was very rare and considered quiet taboo as opposed to the other way around as it was easier accept the white man / black woman as the power still rested with the white man.

Haithabu

mordeith wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton, Barrack Obama and Trevor Noah are all children of one black and one white parent. Why then are they always referred to as black? Fair enough they have darker skin than 'white' people but genetically it's 50/50

It sounds cooler than referring to them as mulattos. Anyway, give it 10 more years and you are not allowed to say black any more so the issue will fix itself.

IsaacWunder

Haithabu wrote: »

It sounds cooler than referring to them as mulattos. Anyway, give it 10 more years and you are not allowed to say black any more so the issue will fix itself.

Give over grandad.

LordSutch

tony1kenobi wrote: »

It's because they are black.

Are they not coloured?

Ralf and Florian

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Give over grandad.

Ageist.

Yourself isit

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Give over grandad.

Actually black was a taboo term in the US for about a decade.

Didas

Help!!!! wrote: »

Trevor Noah would be considered " coloured " in his native South Africa. A lot of mixed race people do not consider themselves " black " but are labelled it by others in countries like the UK or US. In an African country a mixed raced person would not be considered " black " by black people.

There was a documentary on RTE the other night where a guy from Dublin with a Nigerian father and an Irish mother went to Nigeria to investigate his and his fathers roots. He was being shown around a poor part of Lagos with a Nigerian guide and people were coming up screaming at them saying 'why are you helping these white foreigners show the bad side of our country'. In Ireland he would completely be seen as black, but in reality he was far closer to white complexion than he was to the complexion of the people in Nigeria. So what you've said seems to be the case.

Yourself isit

LordSutch wrote: »

Are they not coloured?

Taboo.

People of colour.

hognef

Yourself isit wrote: »

Taboo.

People of colour.

I believe the correct term is 'grey'...

LordSutch

Surely they're more brown than grey?

Anyway, I thought 'Coloured' was the correct term for people of mixed race (certainly in South Africa) and maybe further afield? then again maybe I'm wrong.

Help!!!!

tonygun wrote: »

There was a documentary on RTE the other night where a guy from Dublin with a Nigerian father and an Irish mother went to Nigeria to investigate his and his fathers roots. He was being shown around a poor part of Lagos with a Nigerian guide and people were coming up screaming at them saying 'why are you helping these white foreigners show the bad side of our country'. In Ireland he would completely be seen as black, but in reality he was far closer to white complexion than he was to the complexion of the people in Nigeria. So what you've said seems to be the case.

You see I'm not sure he would. I have cousins who are mixed race & to anyone who knows them well they are Irish, colour doesn't come into it. I have a mate whos half papua new guinea half white aussie, in Australia he just an Australian so was shocked while working in the UK & was being labelled " black " by British black people.

bee06

mordeith wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton, Barrack Obama and Trevor Noah are all children of one black and one white parent. Why then are they always referred to as black? Fair enough they have darker skin than 'white' people but genetically it's 50/50

It all depends on the person's view point. In Trevor Noah's autobiography he goes into how his maternal grandparents considered him "white" and he got treated differently/better by them than his cousins who were not mixed race.

Didas

Help!!!! wrote: »

You see I'm not sure he would. I have cousins who are mixed race & to anyone who knows them well they are Irish, colour doesn't come into it. I have a mate whos half papua new guinea half white aussie, in Australia he just an Australian so was shocked while working in the UK & was being labelled " black " by British black people.

Of course, but I do think in my experience he would be considered both Irish and black, not in any sort of hierarchical way but in a purely observational way, however it does vary obviously.

Help!!!!

tonygun wrote: »

Of course, but I do think in my experience he would be considered both Irish and black, however it does vary obviously.

Yeah but in Ireland for the most part colour doesn't really come into it. If you grow up with someone of colour their just your mate or whatever colour doesn't really come into it unlike the UK/USA. For Example Phil Lynott only started looking at himself as more " black " when he started hanging out with some of The Wailers before he considered himself more Irish

Didas

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah but in Ireland for the most part colour doesn't really come into it. If you grow up with someone of colour their just your mate or whatever colour doesn't really come into it unlike the UK/USA For Example Phil Lynott only started looking at himself as more " black " when he started hanging out with some of The Wailers before he considered himself more Irish

I agree, I get where you're coming from.

Help!!!!

tonygun wrote: »

I agree, I get where you're coming from.

From my experience mixed race people in the UK have a chip on their shoulder because their not black but seem to think they have to be recognised as black so become even blacker than black people. Race is more of an issue over there understandably so because of the history of racism

Ralf and Florian

Help!!!! wrote: »

From my experience mixed race people in the UK have a chip on their shoulder because their not black but seem to think they have to be recognised as black so become even blacker than black people. Race is more of an issue over there understandably so because of the history of racism

That guy Akala is a case in point. He's half black half white but he seems to be trying too hard to prove his black credentials.

nullzero

Mixed opinions on this thread so far

Wibbs

NiallBoo wrote: »

It amazes me that we still cling to these ideas and that still one of our primary ways of grouping people is based on a genetic variance in melatonin production.

Why not hair colour or height?

And why are the caucuses such a big deal? We're all from Africa anyway.

Well… While I wholeheartedly agree with you re the old White European anthropologists angle, it can well be argued that in our collective and natural need to distance ourselves from that nonsense we have also muddied the waters the other way. While it's of course morally far less repugnant I would argue it minimises the wonderful genetic diversity the human species contains.

And diversity there is. EG you note "We're all from Africa anyway", which is mostly true, but there is far more interesting a narrative going on behind that blanket statement.

Non African ancestry populations have at least two(and likely three) extra admixtures from archaic human populations not present in people of African descent(they look to have some of their own and research is ongoing). Native Tibetans have genes from an archaic people we label Denisovans that seem to have helped their ancestors with high altitude. Eskimo populations also have different genes likely from the same source that allows for better heat retention, Europeans have genes from Neandertals that seem to be involved in immune system responses(and addiction. Take the rough with the smooth ).

The human population today rather than some homogenous bunch have a deep and rich tapestry of history behind us and it's written in both our genotypes and phenotypes. It is far more than melanin deep. Indeed if we were any other species it is highly likely we would be seen as sub sub species of the human species. That diversity will likely end up saving us should any natural disaster come along beyond the reach of our technology to mitigate. As it doubtless helped us before.