Plans to improve profit of your flock in 2017

Username John

I have been mulling over how to answer this... I put in a half answer in the same thread on the main forum, but that kinda got me thinking...

Big item for me - take SFP out of farm. Past few years have been investing in the farm, so didn't mind spending it on farm. But need to stop that now...

Better grass management, maybe further divide a field or two. Will have to see how the first rotation goes...
More spraying, good few patches of weeds about...
Soil testing, but we'll have to see about how much fertiliser we put out...

Better monitoring of weight gain. Great tool to track progress. I feel I fell behind in this big time this year, and was only trying to correct things too late...

Shear ewe lambs earlier (weather allowing), was a bit later than I'd like this year...

GLAS will be a boost to finances if I get in. Not sure I'll make much profit off it the first year. But the plan would be to ensure all this money doesn't get swallowed up in the farm as well - I would look to ensure the only % of this that stays in the farm is expense required by the scheme, anything else gets taken out as profit... (if I get in)

Review capital allowances, try to ensure I am being tax efficient taking out as much as I can, up to my capital allowance limit...

Changed system last year - so need to get a proper handle on costs...

I then have to decide...

1. do I stock a bit heavy, put out a bit more fertiliser, try to make a bit more money, albeit with maybe a bit more risk, and a bit higher workload...
2. Or stock just enough to keep things going, meet all costs, but be happy with the SFP as the (only?) profit taken out?

As mentioned above, I wouldn't mind getting more fertiliser out, to improve my soil indices. My preference would be to kinda push things as much as I could...
But the logical part of my brain says to just tick along, take out the SFP and stock enough to make profit enough to cover costs... ? ? ?

Like, tisnt as if I have big numbers, or make a massive amount of money anyways... so what's the point of putting myself under pressure too....

Kinda rambled a bit there maybe... that's some of the things anyways

tomwaterford

Im of tge opionin if somethings worth doing.... Then do it right (withib reason)


As i gathet your reasonable well set up..... If you are.... Its no huge njump in labour to increase..... So long as your not over exposed in a bad year???

Username John

tomwaterford wrote: »

Im of the opionin if somethings worth doing.... Then do it right (withib reason)


As i gathet your reasonable well set up..... If you are.... Its no huge jump in labour to increase..... So long as your not over exposed in a bad year???

The set up isn't great, but tis all right. Could always do with more / better fencing

I would agree for the most part Tom - but I think as farmers we are guilty of using that reason to always produce, no matter what the return / profit...

So, as with everything in life, its trying to find the right balance I guess...

Green farmer

Grass, grass, grass. That's the plan here. Recent soil tests here revealed index 1 and 2 on everything, and some areas of low ph. So feel sheep are doing their job, but I'm letting them down with not enough grass and having to use concentrates. so lime, fert and going to get on top of weeds. After that if any money left, some reseeding as well.

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

Grass, grass, grass. That's the plan here. Recent soil tests here revealed index 1 and 2 on everything, and some areas of low ph. So feel sheep are doing their job, but I'm letting them down with not enough grass and having to use concentrates. so lime, fert and going to get on top of weeds. After that if any money left, some reseeding as well.

How much lime & feet you thinking?

Username John

I would have no issues with buying lime. Putting out lime is good, as (I think) lime leads to better overall grass...

Fertiliser, not so sure

I did soil samples previously, and so I know my ground is lacking in P.

I put out some 0-16-0 to rectify this, but then changed to 10-10-20, as whilst it has less P, I thought it more cost effective as it had some N & K as well...

The big problem is $$$ - lets say a 50kg bag of fert is $20
I think I read that Teagasc say that it costs around $80 to take a lamb to finish, if that lamb is sold for $100 - that leaves you $20 profit...

So you could say each bag of fertilser you spread, is the profit from 1 lamb.

Now - I know its not as easy as that, as fertilser is an investment, rather than a pure expense, as the initial spend on fertilser *should* give you more grass in the long run.

But, in my opinion, you need to be stocked to your max, to justify putting out fertiliser any way heavy. As you need to be able to use that additional grown grass to its full capacity...
Otherise, you're potentially fixing a problem (low soil index) which might not be impacting you as bad, as soil results would have you believe?

Which is why I say in above post - to work out whether to stock to the max (and so justify aditional fertilser, to push grass on)

But, maybe I'm just 'mane'

Username John

Does anyone here regularly blood test their stock for mineral analysis?

Its probably something I should do, rather than guessing and giving them various minerals...

I said I'd ask, given we soil sampling has come up, but bloods analysis hasnt...

charolais0153

Username John wrote: »

Does anyone here regularly blood test their stock for mineral analysis?

Its probably something I should do, rather than guessing and giving them various minerals...

I said I'd ask, given we soil sampling has come up, but bloods analysis hasnt...

A fella from teagasc came out this year and tested our grass and lambs for minerals throughout the year....didn't hear anything back from him however

Green farmer

Farrell wrote: »

How much lime & feet you thinking?

The soil testing says I need 1-2 tonne an acre is different fields. I did the testing myself which was cheaper then getting someone to do it, so spent the savings on getting some of the soil minerals tested as well. I had to get it done for Glas, so will see what the agri advisor says in their nutrient plan, but planning go with (whatever budget allows) 18 6 12 to gradually bring up indices over time, as i think it hits a good balance between n and the pks

Username John

charolais0153 wrote: »

A fella from teagasc came out this year and tested our grass and lambs for minerals throughout the year....didn't hear anything back from him however

What testing was he supposed to do on the grass do you know Charolais? Be interesting to see the results...

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

What testing was he supposed to do on the grass do you know Charolais? Be interesting to see the results...

Herbage samples are more accurate, minerals can be in soil and because they're locked up they never get into the herbage.
Some farmers reseed and due to poor management, ferility or whatever, the sward deteriorates very quick.
But also if there's any ryegrass at all in an old sward, the sheep will increase and improve it hugely just by grazing hard if you're fertilising heavy, Ryegrass is what drives the thrive and more importantly, milk production.....a lamb that is stunted for the want of milk never recovers.
Any way theory is great....putting it into practice is a different matter

charolais0153

rangler1 wrote: »

Herbage samples are more accurate, minerals can be in soil and because they're locked up they never get into the herbage.
Some farmers reseed and due to poor management, ferility or whatever, the sward deteriorates very quick.
But also if there's any ryegrass at all in an old sward, the sheep will increase and improve it hugely just by grazing hard if you're fertilising heavy, Ryegrass is what drives the thrive and more importantly, milk production.....a lamb that is stunted for the want of milk never recovers.
Any way theory is great....putting it into practice is a different matter

Yeah for sampling he picked a field that was reseeded recently enough and two that haven't seen plough in 20+ years

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

The soil testing says I need 1-2 tonne an acre is different fields. I did the testing myself which was cheaper then getting someone to do it, so spent the savings on getting some of the soil minerals tested as well. I had to get it done for Glas, so will see what the agri advisor says in their nutrient plan, but planning go with (whatever budget allows) 18 6 12 to gradually bring up indices over time, as i think it hits a good balance between n and the pks

1-2 tonne isn't much, we're 4-5 here & have put out 2T, with index 1for P.
So I'm curious to your approach.
Would 10.10.20 be better as more P?

Green farmer

Farrell wrote: »

1-2 tonne isn't much, we're 4-5 here & have put out 2T, with index 1for P.
So I'm curious to your approach.
Would 10.10.20 be better as more P?

Ya, got some fields that were 5.5 and 5.8 , but got other ones that needed no lime at 7 and 7.3. The high ph ones aren't the best land, so curious what advisors say about them. Might have a look at the 10 10 20's as well, see what price it is. there's good value to be had on the 18 6 12 at €295 a tonne at moment. I priced up some 0 10 20, but was a good bit more expensive. Also hoping that spreading lime will unlock some p&ks from the ground.

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

Ya, got some fields that were 5.5 and 5.8 , but got other ones that needed no lime at 7 and 7.3. The high ph ones aren't the best land, so curious what advisors say about them. Might have a look at the 10 10 20's as well, see what price it is. there's good value to be had on the 18 6 12 at €295 a tonne at moment. I priced up some 0 10 20, but was a good bit more expensive. Also hoping that spreading lime will unlock some p&ks from the ground.

Thinking that too.
We're ok for K, so P to sort
Others have mentioned 2 bags of 0.7.30 before deadline & 1 bag urea early spring, could be an option.

Username John

Farrell wrote: »

Thinking that too.
We're ok for K, so P to sort
Others have mentioned 2 bags of 0.7.30 before deadline & 1 bag urea early spring, could be an option.

But 0.7.30 has only 7 P? Dependant on price of course, but you'd nearly be better off with 1 bag of 0-16-0, if you are ok for K?

Like yourself Farrell, low in P here too. I put out some 0-16-0 before and you would really notice the improved spring growth in the fields that got the extra P

Farrell

Username John wrote: »

But 0.7.30 has only 7 P? Dependant on price of course, but you'd nearly be better off with 1 bag of 0-16-0, if you are ok for K?

Like yourself Farrell, low in P here too. I put out some 0-16-0 before and you would really notice the improved spring growth in the fields that got the extra P

A fear I have is that I don't give enough fert, intend putting some out after silage & maybe some on grazing too.
Had poor cover in Jul/Aug.
When did you put out the 0.16.0?

Username John

Farrell wrote: »

A fear I have is that I don't give enough fert, intend putting some out after silage & maybe some on grazing too.
Had poor cover in Jul/Aug.
When did you put out the 0.16.0?

Was a good while ago now, but I think it was late summer...
But come spring time, the results were very visible...
Would have loved to put out more, but cost didn't stack up.