Plans to improve profit of your flock in 2017

roosky

I see the dairy and beef lads have a forum on this topic so we better not rule ourselves out of making more money !

Hopefully we can all pick up one or two things to help the pocket and try to keep the 10 euro a ewe payment for the holiday fund !

My plans to try to improve the profit next year include:

Reseed 6 acre field bringing all the farm under the bracket of reseeded in last 8 years!

Plan more ram lambs for export for ramadan festival, payed me well this year and with a bit of planning i could have more to spec

Manage grass better: plan already in place for post lambing to avoid feeding meal post lambing but as usual weather will decide. Also plan to try harder to manage grass and take heavy swards out as silage sooner as i found lamb thrive seriously slipped as the summer moved on.

charolais0153

roosky wrote: »

I see the dairy and beef lads have a forum on this topic so we better not rule ourselves out of making more money !

Hopefully we can all pick up one or two things to help the pocket and try to keep the 10 euro a ewe payment for the holiday fund !

My plans to try to improve the profit next year include:

Reseed 6 acre field bringing all the farm under the bracket of reseeded in last 8 years!

Plan more ram lambs for export for ramadan festival, payed me well this year and with a bit of planning i could have more to spec

Manage grass better: plan already in place for post lambing to avoid feeding meal post lambing but as usual weather will decide. Also plan to try harder to manage grass and take heavy swards out as silage sooner as i found lamb thrive seriously slipped as the summer moved on.

Keep the sheep in smallish paddocks and moving regularly.every time they are moved they seem to go eating.

Keep a small bit of nitrogen out in may/June to stop stem and make sure they're grazing out properly leaving little or no stem.

Resseed another paddock.or two.

Subdivide more fields because when they are in the one field for a while they start getting lame and thrive is hampered.

Cull troublesome ewes, am going to purchase a notcher to identify repeat offenders. 2 bad sheep take as much minding as 20 good ones.

Vaccinate for abortion ,it is 4e a head and for the 25 hoggetts we buy in its the price of one lamb.

Keep on top of the grass measuring

Bleating Lamb

Minimising lameness on any sheep farm helps profit levels.
What do people think of effectiveness of 'foot bathing' sheep?

I have one of the sturdy plastic troughs about 10 ft long.Did not use it at all this year as ewes went well regarding lameness.

Do most people that have one of these troughs use it in an organised way each year?
I think I will try to use it systematically this year and would appreciate people's experience with them,only have ordinary crush I run sheep through and they pass through the plastic trough as they go.

Thanks for any tips on what works best with them for you.

rangler1

Sheep welfare scheme announced, looks like easy money......we're doing it all already anyway.
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/new-25m-sheep-welfare-scheme-officially-launched-35305262.html?utm_content=buffer49732&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

roosky

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Minimising lameness on any sheep farm helps profit levels.
What do people think of effectiveness of 'foot bathing' sheep?

I have one of the sturdy plastic troughs about 10 ft long.Did not use it at all this year as ewes went well regarding lameness.

Do most people that have one of these troughs use it in an organised way each year?
I think I will try to use it systematically this year and would appreciate people's experience with them,only have ordinary crush I run sheep through and they pass through the plastic trough as they go.

Thanks for any tips on what works best with them for you.

I have them in the race all the year round if ewes are lambs are in they go through it, its very time consuming but a necessary evil I guess.

roosky

rangler1 wrote: »

Sheep welfare scheme announced, looks like easy money......we're doing it all already anyway.
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/new-25m-sheep-welfare-scheme-officially-launched-35305262.html?utm_content=buffer49732&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I always shudder when a sheep farmer say "looks like easy money" !!!

rangler1

roosky wrote: »

I always shudder when a sheep farmer say "looks like easy money" !!!

The new entrant conditions could be the rock it'd perish on......wouldn't be long losing €10 ewe if there was an influx of new entrants.
poor respect for existing sheep farmers if that happens.:mad:

Sheep breeder

Intend to soil sample and spread lime,
Market more ram lambs for Ramadan,
Cull ewes at weaning than feeding to kill,
Give up pour on and dip sheep a couple of times,
Shear ewes earlier,( new contractor sourced this year and hang up our own shears and retire from this madness)
Put more time into selling,
AI some ewes,

Cran

rangler1 wrote: »

The new entrant conditions could be the rock it'd perish on......wouldn't be long losing €10 ewe if there was an influx of new entrants.
poor respect for existing sheep farmers if that happens.:mad:

New entrant rule with nothing for current sheep farmers expanding very unfair

charolais0153

Cran wrote: »

New entrant rule with nothing for current sheep farmers expanding very unfair

+1
We've increased our flock another 15 or so ewes,its not much but still its a bit annoying

sheepfarmer92

Lets just hope it doesnt lead to an over supply! One good thing about sheep, a lot of these cattle men might get into a few ewes but alot of them wont stay too long at it, a lot of people hate sheep which is good for us that want to remain in sheep and stay profitable

farawaygrass

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Intend to soil sample and spread lime,
Market more ram lambs for Ramadan,
Cull ewes at weaning than feeding to kill,
Give up pour on and dip sheep a couple of times,
Shear ewes earlier,( new contractor sourced this year and hang up our own shears and retire from this madness)
Put more time into selling,
AI some ewes,

Why are you giving up on pour for dipping? We went the other way last year. Dipping is cruel work imo.

Hobs

Hi all, Father only had 18 average in census reference years.
I've since increased ewes to 75 this year. Kept most ewe lambs as breeding ewes last two years.
Sheep suit me better with full time job so have cut back with cattle numbers.

Anyways we added my name this year as joint herd number, would this class me as a new entrant with new herd number?
Or is scheme not worth joining in my case.
Thanks all for replies and all info supplied on sheep forum.

Sheep breeder

farawaygrass wrote: »

Why are you giving up on pour for dipping? We went the other way last year. Dipping is cruel work imo.

The reason the pour on was not doing the job correctly and my neighbour dipped twice and had no problems and sheep were better for dipping and looked great when selling, and the main reason when working full time to have to go get sheep in with maggots in the evening very time consuming.

roosky

Hobs wrote: »

Hi all, Father only had 18 average in census reference years.
I've since increased ewes to 75 this year. Kept most ewe lambs as breeding ewes last two years.
Sheep suit me better with full time job so have cut back with cattle numbers.

Anyways we added my name this year as joint herd number, would this class me as a new entrant with new herd number?
Or is scheme not worth joining in my case.
Thanks all for replies and all info supplied on sheep forum.

Ya im on a joint her number arrangement and I am classed as a new entrant but i started in 2015, wonder will I have to take average of 2014 and 2015 or just 2015 as im a new entrant

sheepfarmer92

Sheep breeder wrote: »

The reason the pour on was not doing the job correctly and my neighbour dipped twice and had no problems and sheep were better for dipping and looked great when selling, and the main reason when working full time to have to go get sheep in with maggots in the evening very time consuming.

Everyone should try and dip sheep at least once a year, it would definitly help eradicate scab, years ago dipping was compulsory in ireland

razor8

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Intend to soil sample and spread lime,
Market more ram lambs for Ramadan,
Cull ewes at weaning than feeding to kill,
Give up pour on and dip sheep a couple of times,
Shear ewes earlier,( new contractor sourced this year and hang up our own shears and retire from this madness)
Put more time into selling,
AI some ewes,

Which pour did you use?

adam14

Dipping is far superior than any pour on. Gave up on pour a few years ago.

farawaygrass

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Everyone should try and dip sheep at least once a year, it would definitly help eradicate scab, years ago dipping was compulsory in ireland

Ya I remember when I was young there was an inspector out for the dipping and all and the neighbors would be doing it the same day too. Would a sheep shower be near as good as dipping?

sheepfarmer92

farawaygrass wrote: »

Ya I remember when I was young there was an inspector out for the dipping and all and the neighbors would be doing it the same day too. Would a sheep shower be near as good as dipping?

Yea, we got ewes that were on an out farm showered this year but the odd one got maggotts a few weeks later, were going to dip anymore, its a lot of work but at least theyre properly covered

Ard_MC

Plan to carry out some long overdue grassland management. Reseedin, drains and better fencing so can manage the ground better. Move away from the store market and finish a few of them.
Possibly invest in a mobile handling unit or that could be put onto 2018 wish list!

Cran

Reseeding here will continue, going to try some redstart as part of forage crops. Lot of fencing to be done and maybe small shed extension. Sheep wise numbers expansion will continue and might start offering some ewe lambs for sale along with reviewing ram sales

sheepfarmer92

Do a bit more reseeding next year and split up more fields help manage grass easier, and rotate sheep and lambs more often, and hopefully build a new sheep handling unit with footbath at the far end if the farm, keeping numbers as they are for now

razor8

Try to minimise costs without jeopardising performance.

Make better silage to reduce meal bill

A lot of fencing and reseeding done in last few years so need to up my game on the grass management side of things

Minimise mortality at lambing time was about 12% last year

tomwaterford

More fencing and possibly a second smaller shed (hoping 60 ft x 20 (18 at a min))

Clean and deepen drains aswell

Though must also replace two rams....would usually buy one ram lamb every year,but didn't last year
So il buy a hogget and a lamb this year


Also looking at buying a buckrake to clean out sheds....cost me e300 to get them done this year :-/


And just keep what I'm doing regarding footballing g etc to keep going along.....fcuk knows where profit will fall after all that though

390kid

Plan to soil sample some fields and carry out drainage work on wetter parts of the farm and start to build a proper handling unit and maybe a shed if finance allows. Not much sign of profit but I bought some maternal replacements in so hopefully they'll help it along!!

DJ98

390kid wrote: »

Plan to soil sample some fields and carry out drainage work on wetter parts of the farm and start to build a proper handling unit and maybe a shed if finance allows. Not much sign of profit but I bought some maternal replacements in so hopefully they'll help it along!!

What breed are the maternals?

390kid

What breed are the maternals?[/quote]
I bought some mules and hiltex types. Have a small number of belclares from last year

Western Pomise

Intend to do some soil sampling to lead to more effective fertiliser use,my ground would only tolerate a small lime spread or you wouldn't walk a chicken on it:)

AnFeirmeoir

Its impossible to learn from last year as next year is different weather /market.

This year didnt go the way i thought. Had a great crop of lambs but grass didnt grow that well in spring or in summer. Had i high feed bill and still ended up offloading them late as stores for average €85.
Housed all ewes mid december last year due to bad winter. Thus year theyll be out for at least anothe 6 weeks if weather holds.

The fox won last year. Hope to change that tis year.

AnFeirmeoir

Also waiting to hear how much of the €10 has to go to an advisore for his signature

Username John

I have been mulling over how to answer this... I put in a half answer in the same thread on the main forum, but that kinda got me thinking...

Big item for me - take SFP out of farm. Past few years have been investing in the farm, so didn't mind spending it on farm. But need to stop that now...

Better grass management, maybe further divide a field or two. Will have to see how the first rotation goes...
More spraying, good few patches of weeds about...
Soil testing, but we'll have to see about how much fertiliser we put out...

Better monitoring of weight gain. Great tool to track progress. I feel I fell behind in this big time this year, and was only trying to correct things too late...

Shear ewe lambs earlier (weather allowing), was a bit later than I'd like this year...

GLAS will be a boost to finances if I get in. Not sure I'll make much profit off it the first year. But the plan would be to ensure all this money doesn't get swallowed up in the farm as well - I would look to ensure the only % of this that stays in the farm is expense required by the scheme, anything else gets taken out as profit... (if I get in)

Review capital allowances, try to ensure I am being tax efficient taking out as much as I can, up to my capital allowance limit...

Changed system last year - so need to get a proper handle on costs...

I then have to decide...

1. do I stock a bit heavy, put out a bit more fertiliser, try to make a bit more money, albeit with maybe a bit more risk, and a bit higher workload...
2. Or stock just enough to keep things going, meet all costs, but be happy with the SFP as the (only?) profit taken out?

As mentioned above, I wouldn't mind getting more fertiliser out, to improve my soil indices. My preference would be to kinda push things as much as I could...
But the logical part of my brain says to just tick along, take out the SFP and stock enough to make profit enough to cover costs... ? ? ?

Like, tisnt as if I have big numbers, or make a massive amount of money anyways... so what's the point of putting myself under pressure too....

Kinda rambled a bit there maybe... that's some of the things anyways

tomwaterford

Im of tge opionin if somethings worth doing.... Then do it right (withib reason)


As i gathet your reasonable well set up..... If you are.... Its no huge njump in labour to increase..... So long as your not over exposed in a bad year???

Username John

tomwaterford wrote: »

Im of the opionin if somethings worth doing.... Then do it right (withib reason)


As i gathet your reasonable well set up..... If you are.... Its no huge jump in labour to increase..... So long as your not over exposed in a bad year???

The set up isn't great, but tis all right. Could always do with more / better fencing

I would agree for the most part Tom - but I think as farmers we are guilty of using that reason to always produce, no matter what the return / profit...

So, as with everything in life, its trying to find the right balance I guess...

Green farmer

Grass, grass, grass. That's the plan here. Recent soil tests here revealed index 1 and 2 on everything, and some areas of low ph. So feel sheep are doing their job, but I'm letting them down with not enough grass and having to use concentrates. so lime, fert and going to get on top of weeds. After that if any money left, some reseeding as well.

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

Grass, grass, grass. That's the plan here. Recent soil tests here revealed index 1 and 2 on everything, and some areas of low ph. So feel sheep are doing their job, but I'm letting them down with not enough grass and having to use concentrates. so lime, fert and going to get on top of weeds. After that if any money left, some reseeding as well.

How much lime & feet you thinking?

Username John

I would have no issues with buying lime. Putting out lime is good, as (I think) lime leads to better overall grass...

Fertiliser, not so sure

I did soil samples previously, and so I know my ground is lacking in P.

I put out some 0-16-0 to rectify this, but then changed to 10-10-20, as whilst it has less P, I thought it more cost effective as it had some N & K as well...

The big problem is $$$ - lets say a 50kg bag of fert is $20
I think I read that Teagasc say that it costs around $80 to take a lamb to finish, if that lamb is sold for $100 - that leaves you $20 profit...

So you could say each bag of fertilser you spread, is the profit from 1 lamb.

Now - I know its not as easy as that, as fertilser is an investment, rather than a pure expense, as the initial spend on fertilser *should* give you more grass in the long run.

But, in my opinion, you need to be stocked to your max, to justify putting out fertiliser any way heavy. As you need to be able to use that additional grown grass to its full capacity...
Otherise, you're potentially fixing a problem (low soil index) which might not be impacting you as bad, as soil results would have you believe?

Which is why I say in above post - to work out whether to stock to the max (and so justify aditional fertilser, to push grass on)

But, maybe I'm just 'mane'

Username John

Does anyone here regularly blood test their stock for mineral analysis?

Its probably something I should do, rather than guessing and giving them various minerals...

I said I'd ask, given we soil sampling has come up, but bloods analysis hasnt...

charolais0153

Username John wrote: »

Does anyone here regularly blood test their stock for mineral analysis?

Its probably something I should do, rather than guessing and giving them various minerals...

I said I'd ask, given we soil sampling has come up, but bloods analysis hasnt...

A fella from teagasc came out this year and tested our grass and lambs for minerals throughout the year....didn't hear anything back from him however

Green farmer

Farrell wrote: »

How much lime & feet you thinking?

The soil testing says I need 1-2 tonne an acre is different fields. I did the testing myself which was cheaper then getting someone to do it, so spent the savings on getting some of the soil minerals tested as well. I had to get it done for Glas, so will see what the agri advisor says in their nutrient plan, but planning go with (whatever budget allows) 18 6 12 to gradually bring up indices over time, as i think it hits a good balance between n and the pks

Username John

charolais0153 wrote: »

A fella from teagasc came out this year and tested our grass and lambs for minerals throughout the year....didn't hear anything back from him however

What testing was he supposed to do on the grass do you know Charolais? Be interesting to see the results...

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

What testing was he supposed to do on the grass do you know Charolais? Be interesting to see the results...

Herbage samples are more accurate, minerals can be in soil and because they're locked up they never get into the herbage.
Some farmers reseed and due to poor management, ferility or whatever, the sward deteriorates very quick.
But also if there's any ryegrass at all in an old sward, the sheep will increase and improve it hugely just by grazing hard if you're fertilising heavy, Ryegrass is what drives the thrive and more importantly, milk production.....a lamb that is stunted for the want of milk never recovers.
Any way theory is great....putting it into practice is a different matter

charolais0153

rangler1 wrote: »

Herbage samples are more accurate, minerals can be in soil and because they're locked up they never get into the herbage.
Some farmers reseed and due to poor management, ferility or whatever, the sward deteriorates very quick.
But also if there's any ryegrass at all in an old sward, the sheep will increase and improve it hugely just by grazing hard if you're fertilising heavy, Ryegrass is what drives the thrive and more importantly, milk production.....a lamb that is stunted for the want of milk never recovers.
Any way theory is great....putting it into practice is a different matter

Yeah for sampling he picked a field that was reseeded recently enough and two that haven't seen plough in 20+ years

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

The soil testing says I need 1-2 tonne an acre is different fields. I did the testing myself which was cheaper then getting someone to do it, so spent the savings on getting some of the soil minerals tested as well. I had to get it done for Glas, so will see what the agri advisor says in their nutrient plan, but planning go with (whatever budget allows) 18 6 12 to gradually bring up indices over time, as i think it hits a good balance between n and the pks

1-2 tonne isn't much, we're 4-5 here & have put out 2T, with index 1for P.
So I'm curious to your approach.
Would 10.10.20 be better as more P?

Green farmer

Farrell wrote: »

1-2 tonne isn't much, we're 4-5 here & have put out 2T, with index 1for P.
So I'm curious to your approach.
Would 10.10.20 be better as more P?

Ya, got some fields that were 5.5 and 5.8 , but got other ones that needed no lime at 7 and 7.3. The high ph ones aren't the best land, so curious what advisors say about them. Might have a look at the 10 10 20's as well, see what price it is. there's good value to be had on the 18 6 12 at €295 a tonne at moment. I priced up some 0 10 20, but was a good bit more expensive. Also hoping that spreading lime will unlock some p&ks from the ground.

Farrell

Green farmer wrote: »

Ya, got some fields that were 5.5 and 5.8 , but got other ones that needed no lime at 7 and 7.3. The high ph ones aren't the best land, so curious what advisors say about them. Might have a look at the 10 10 20's as well, see what price it is. there's good value to be had on the 18 6 12 at €295 a tonne at moment. I priced up some 0 10 20, but was a good bit more expensive. Also hoping that spreading lime will unlock some p&ks from the ground.

Thinking that too.
We're ok for K, so P to sort
Others have mentioned 2 bags of 0.7.30 before deadline & 1 bag urea early spring, could be an option.

Username John

Farrell wrote: »

Thinking that too.
We're ok for K, so P to sort
Others have mentioned 2 bags of 0.7.30 before deadline & 1 bag urea early spring, could be an option.

But 0.7.30 has only 7 P? Dependant on price of course, but you'd nearly be better off with 1 bag of 0-16-0, if you are ok for K?

Like yourself Farrell, low in P here too. I put out some 0-16-0 before and you would really notice the improved spring growth in the fields that got the extra P

Farrell

Username John wrote: »

But 0.7.30 has only 7 P? Dependant on price of course, but you'd nearly be better off with 1 bag of 0-16-0, if you are ok for K?

Like yourself Farrell, low in P here too. I put out some 0-16-0 before and you would really notice the improved spring growth in the fields that got the extra P

A fear I have is that I don't give enough fert, intend putting some out after silage & maybe some on grazing too.
Had poor cover in Jul/Aug.
When did you put out the 0.16.0?

Username John

Farrell wrote: »

A fear I have is that I don't give enough fert, intend putting some out after silage & maybe some on grazing too.
Had poor cover in Jul/Aug.
When did you put out the 0.16.0?

Was a good while ago now, but I think it was late summer...
But come spring time, the results were very visible...
Would have loved to put out more, but cost didn't stack up.