The 10th Annual PW Draft 2017 Discussion Thread

Bounty Hunter

Not going to be able to finish reading all the shows before I vote now(been trying to the last few hours) as its 2am here and I've another busy workday in 6 hours before immediately heading to the airport for a long flight. I'll try to get votes in when I can but I don't expect mine to count as I don't really wanna vote when ive not read them all. I liked Necro's PPV for example but is it fair to vote him to win when ive not been able to complete say BCW, MNG or whoever elses shows

Mr.Nice Guy

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Not going to be able to finish reading all the shows before I vote now(been trying to the last few hours) as its 2am here and I've another busy workday in 6 hours before immediately heading to the airport for a long flight. I'll try to get votes in when I can but I don't expect mine to count as I don't really wanna vote when ive not read them all. I liked Necro's PPV for example but is it fair to vote him to win when ive not been able to complete say BCW, MNG or whoever elses shows

The problem with not counting your votes is that this will skew the final result and would actually work to your advantage because while you would be receiving votes from other players, it wouldn't balance out since other players wouldn't be getting any back from you.

Honestly the more votes that are in the better it will be for the final result.

I sent off my votes this evening but I'd be fine with extending the time limit for others to have more time to read.

JP Liz V1

I am still reading so hope to get my votes in tomorrow, sorry but broadband problems delaying me

beakerjoe

Ive just finished reading the remaining shows. Trying to decide where my votes go now.

Only 3 others have voted so far, and judging from Brad and Liz, would people like a few more days to read over shows?

Bounty Hunter

I def would not say no, my days are not getting any less busy atm

Necro

No issues with letting people have another few days for reading from me anyways.

I can imagine a lot of ye needing to lie down for a while after slogging through just my shows!!! Fair play to all who did though.

beakerjoe

Well shall we say Sunday night then? That fine with everyone?

i=I should have feedback posted soon for ABMG, Necro's later shows, Daithi, Paulies PPV and Liz, Cheese and Brian Regan

Ive pm'd voting cards to people (except Red who isnt acccepting PM's), so get reading and good luck

A Brad Maddox Guy

Yeah Sunday should be good, I'll be finished work at a regular time tomorrow and off all day Sunday so should have enough time between now and then.

Bounty Hunter

Read a good bit on the plane but couldn't change pages so have plenty more to read tonight if possible during a stop over in Dam (not really condusive to reading tbh). Still got Necros PPV, some of Daithi's, Joe's and MNG's shows in at least, meant have been one of Paulie's in there too. will get some feedback in but probably after voting.

JP Liz V1

Bounty Hunter BWA Wrestlepalooza

Good solid opening matches, I expected Batista to get the win so surprised Nash did even though he did dominate with duct tape, genius :P, loved Mr. Perfect winning and also Hall winning the big one against Hogan and with Ted DiBiase running the show,
it really was million dollar ppv, top contender for sure

Necrominus NCW Agony PPV

Wow Hassan and his brotherhood dominated, good intro for Edge and poor old Donny Trump getting turned on by Steph, fun segment with Backlund

Natural Selection PPV

A good opener with Disco winning against Singh, great tag title table match and glad Dudleys won, great ladies ladder match too and the main event, what an ending

Daithi1989 DPW Destiny Day PPV

Daithi shocked at you with Randy helping him :eek: didn't expect it, Captain Lou prophecy came true with his anoa'i family all winning, really enjoyable draft debut from you

JP Liz V1

A Brad Maddox Guy MWA Wrestlerama

I enjoyed the opener with Warrior Vs. Swagger correct winner too for me, Breeze was written great and good win against Storm, Sandow and Rourke was enjoyable and draw makes sense for Foley and Shane match both would give it all in HIAC and good to see Lesnar lose, great ppv

Paulie21 PCW Pauliemania

, Very solid tag match opener, I wanted Strong to win against Kennedy, I'm sure Jericho vs. Ziggler would have brought the house down, good win for The Rock against his daddy and no bad feeling after for them was nice, good well written and thought out ppv

Mr Nice Guy MNG Grapplemania

Yay Monday Night Grappling continues, having Ali run the show as GM and be involved in a match was a great idea, overall excellent thought out build ppv, some excellent matches especially Steamboat/Angle and WGTT/AA, as always you deliver a top ppv, setting the bar high

Beakerjoe BCW Ultimate Chaos

As current champ you came out swinging with an epic ppv, love the song Human so great song choice, didn't expect Corey to help Neville win so good twist, Savage Vs. Owens contender for MOTD for sure, great ending, very high standard bar set, well done

Necro

Many votes in now Joe?

beakerjoe

Only 7 voting cards submitted as of yet (including me). Do you guys need more time to vote?

Looking back last year 11 people voted in total?

Bounty Hunter

I'd check the number voted with the number that submitted ppvs as they are more likely to have had time to read and vote. I was late but got to do both

beakerjoe

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I'd check the number voted with the number that submitted ppvs as they are more likely to have had time to read and vote. I was late but got to do both

Well nearly everyone who submitted shows have voted, so I will give it until 7 today and close it. So lads last call to vote!

Mr.Nice Guy

I think it's time to make big changes to the game next year. Only 7 votes out of 20 is shocking when you consider that the engagement was very high in the draft picking stage. Didn't we have all 20 players complete the picks phase? That means, by my maths, we've seen a 65% drop from that to the write-up stage.

And this is by no means an isolated case. I've seen a big drop off back in the years I was running it. This is just the first time it looks like we will have less than half complete both phases.

I think the game is untenable unless things are altered next year. I propose two solutions:

1) The write-up next year should just be a single post - your PPV write-up - and the evaluation thread should only be opened once the picks phase ends (unlike traditionally when it's been opened in Round 10).

That means, in effect, scrapping the weekly TV shows.

Why do I say this? Well, the workload is becoming such that it is sapping enjoyment from players who feel they are obliged to do them - even though they aren't.

Also I get the impression that players, when it comes to reading and voting, because they are pushed for time are just reading the PPVs anyway where they can get a quick glimpse of the feuds and their back story.

If we just do the PPV write-ups then we can do a quick few paragraphs explaining the back story for people within that post - and doing away with the need to write four or five weekly build shows.

Suggestion 2) - The write-up thread, once opened after the picks stage, should be closed exactly 2 weeks later.

The game is dragging on too long. We ended the picks phase weeks, maybe months ago, and yet because of the annual deadline extensions - again going back to the days I was running it - mean we finish the game long after the picks stage, and lose all the momentum we gained from that period.

If players are told, no ifs and buts, that you have 2 weeks to get in ONE write-up then I think we will see at least double the number of people finishing the game, and it won't feel like it will have dragged at all.

To sum up my thoughts, we need to scrap the weekly build shows, encourage players to post just the one write-up where they will briefly explain their feuds within this post, and we need to explain to players that they have a fortnight to get this solitary post in before the game wraps up.

Thoughts?

beakerjoe

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it's time to make big changes to the game next year. Only 7 votes out of 20 is shocking when you consider that the engagement was very high in the draft picking stage. Didn't we have all 20 players complete the picks phase? That means, by my maths, we've seen a 65% drop from that to the write-up stage.

And this is by no means an isolated case. I've seen a big drop off back in the years I was running it. This is just the first time it looks like we will have less than half complete both phases.

When I started playing back in 2014, it was full of new people taking part and them coupled with the regulars seemed to make the game so appealing.

7 voting cards returned is a low return. I feel like while, those seven make it worth while for me and Im glad they read my work and the work of others, I feel its a let down that more didn't take part in the write up phase.

I understand though that real life gets in the way and many cant get detailed write ups done due to external circumstances. Thats life and I cant be annoyed at people not doing write ups because real life gets in the way. Sure its not like we turned away any players because we filled our player quota.

I think the game is untenable unless things are altered next year. I propose two solutions:

1) The write-up next year should just be a single post - your PPV write-up - and the evaluation thread should only be opened once the picks phase ends (unlike traditionally when it's been opened in Round 10).

That means, in effect, scrapping the weekly TV shows.

Why do I say this? Well, the workload is becoming such that it is sapping enjoyment from players who feel they are obliged to do them - even though they aren't.

I agree with this and disagree in equal measures. I love the tv write ups and the paint a nice clear picture of how your shows matches came about, complete with storyline twists and turns that make it easier for me to imagine things.

That being said its a slog and I felt burnt out big time this year. It was a choir at times to grab my mental visualizations and turn them into text. I feel that while I enjoy the creative side of imagining storylines, putting them to paper is getting harder and harder.

Suggestion 2) - The write-up thread, once opened after the picks stage, should be closed exactly 2 weeks later.

The game is dragging on too long. We ended the picks phase weeks, maybe months ago, and yet because of the annual deadline extensions - again going back to the days I was running it - mean we finish the game long after the picks stage, and lose all the momentum we gained from that period.

If players are told, no ifs and buts, that you have 2 weeks to get in ONE write-up then I think we will see at least double the number of people finishing the game, and it won't feel like it will have dragged at all.

To sum up my thoughts, we need to scrap the weekly build shows, encourage players to post just the one write-up where they will briefly explain their feuds within this post, and we need to explain to players that they have a fortnight to get this solitary post in before the game wraps up.

Thoughts?

While I dont want to scrap the weekly shows, I feel there is no other realistic option. It will make it easier for those pushed for time to take part and perhaps will encourage more to submit work for judging.

I do feel I take the game more serious than others, I did have my own IRL hurdles I had to over come, and while I dont feel my work was my best, I did my very best to submit some work despite real life circumstances.

Mr.Nice Guy

I hear what you're saying and I agree. I enjoy the storyline element of the write-ups too, but I feel like the workload involved is making it tougher to sustain things.

The suggestions I made will lead to less engaging storylines than in previous years because you just can't capture in one post the highs and lows of a feud in the way you can with four or five shows, but I do think it will be more manageable reading for other players to deal with one show over four or five.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect most players who read and vote are probably not going through each weekly TV show. I reckon they are reading the PPVs because they are pressed for time. And so we have to ask is the amount of workload really worth it if there's only a handful of people reading everything?

I think at this point the goal should be to double the amount of voting submissions we're getting. If we only got 11 in last year, and we're looking at 7 currently, then that suggests the write-up aspect of the game needs to be revamped.

Obviously the picking phase is not an issue because we've nearly always had 100 per cent completion the last few years. It's the write-up part that is turning off around half of players.

beakerjoe

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I hear what you're saying and I agree. I enjoy the storyline element of the write-ups too, but I feel like the workload involved is making it tougher to sustain things.

The suggestions I made will lead to less engaging storylines than in previous years because you just can't capture in one post the highs and lows of a feud in the way you can with four or five shows, but I do think it will be more manageable reading for other players to deal with one show over four or five.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect most players who read and vote are probably not going through each weekly TV show. I reckon they are reading the PPVs because they are pressed for time. And so we have to ask is the amount of workload really worth it if there's only a handful of people reading everything?

I think at this point the goal should be to double the amount of voting submissions we're getting. If we only got 11 in last year, and we're looking at 7 currently, then that suggests the write-up aspect of the game needs to be revamped.

Obviously the picking phase is not an issue because we've nearly always had 100 per cent completion the last few years. It's the write-up part that is turning off around half of players.

I agree, reluctantly due to my love of the game, but I feel your idea will make the game more accessible and enjoyable for more. It will also mean a challenge for players like myself and you to adapt to the new format while retaining the same enjoyment.

id love to know what others think, as I suspect your idea would be met favorably.

paulie21

I think maybe if we had less rounds of the draft it would make it easier for people to write more shows as they won't have as many wrestlers on their rosters. Also allows more time as draft be over quicker. Also could we look at the time limit between picks, I understand it's not always possible to get online everyday to make a pick but it felt like it dragged when people took 24 hours to make a pick or not pick at all.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Got my votes in there, apologies for the delay. As suggested by MNG, my write-up votes are based almost purely on the PPV's aside from any of the shows posted early in the process. Personally speaking I felt like I had a mental barrier when it came to the post-drafting phase both when writing my own shows & reading everybody else, it's something that annoyed me as I know I wasn't able to give everybody's work the attention levels you deserve and it also meant not being able to follow through on plans of my own. Now that barrier isn't solely the level of content & time the write-ups require as I've been finding things a little tough in general over the last month or two but I can definitely see where the thought is coming from as catching up on the thread is a bit daunting if you've not stayed on top from the beginning.

I would agree with not opening evaluations until the roster drafting is complete and also limiting the time for submissions (it's almost 5 months since we began incredibly). I would argue that we finished the drafting process pretty early this year so wouldn't agree with reducing the 24 hour rule as it was more of a safety net this year as we only came close to it a few times.

Currently in the write-ups we are often doing a hype show, 4 episodes, a PPV preview & a PPV - it's a lot. I'll suggest something in the middle of the current write-up format & the PPV-only suggested format; a preview & PPV combo. Everybody gets one show to preview the PPV which we can use to explain the feuds, hype the show & give an idea of what the characters involved are. Then the usual PPV write-ups which as always were excellent this year. At least this way people can still experiment a little with their rosters and keep the game concise at the same time. Would this work?

Necro

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Currently in the write-ups we are often doing a hype show, 4 episodes, a PPV preview & a PPV - it's a lot. I'll suggest something in the middle of the current write-up format & the PPV-only suggested format; a preview & PPV combo. Everybody gets one show to preview the PPV which we can use to explain the feuds, hype the show & give an idea of what the characters involved are. Then the usual PPV write-ups which as always were excellent this year. At least this way people can still experiment a little with their rosters and keep the game concise at the same time. Would this work?

I think this would be a fair way to do it personally. While I love the current way of preview, 4 shows and PPV Preview before the PPV itself - if there have only been 7 votes cast it's clear something has to be changed. It's a shame though.

A Brad Maddox Guy

Well 8 votes now as that was before I got mine in but yeah I think could possibly be 3 years in a row of lower voting numbers

beakerjoe

With Brads votes in and him being the last person I expected to vote since theres been no sign of anyone else, I shall announce the winners shortly.......

beakerjoe

Results thread Linky : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103316636#post103316636

Mr.Nice Guy

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Currently in the write-ups we are often doing a hype show, 4 episodes, a PPV preview & a PPV - it's a lot. I'll suggest something in the middle of the current write-up format & the PPV-only suggested format; a preview & PPV combo. Everybody gets one show to preview the PPV which we can use to explain the feuds, hype the show & give an idea of what the characters involved are. Then the usual PPV write-ups which as always were excellent this year. At least this way people can still experiment a little with their rosters and keep the game concise at the same time. Would this work?

I think this is a great idea. I like this idea much better.

I do enjoy the preview show and figuring out who gets which title.

beakerjoe

I do like the idea, it will simplify things and take the burden of work off the players.

Bounty Hunter

I like the 1 preview and 1 show idea especially if it gets more people involved. I liked a lot of what I wrote but nearer the end there may have been some times when I just wanted to get shows finished

daithi1989

Maybe it because I'm new, but I found the writing more enjoyable the further I went!

Happy with how I finished up.. All things being equal, I'll be back next year..
And as mentioned in the results thread, I'll have my Fantasy league title to defend! Another enjoyable comp!

beakerjoe

Ideas thread for the 2018 game here - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105498484#post105498484