Rifle rebarrelers

gunny123

A few years back i found one of my dream guns on a dealers shelf and bought it. Its a ruger no.1 single shot rsi (stutzen). The fly in the ointment is its chambered for .243 winchester.

Nothing wrong with that round, but i would prefer it in a .30 calibre round, probably .308 but maybe .30-06.

Who is out there that could rebarrel it ?

Brasros

gunny123 wrote:

Who is out there that could rebarrel it ?

Domnic Byrne ( Dom's custom rifles) near Bunclody co. Wexford will rebarrel it for you.

clivej

Brasros wrote: »

Domnic Byrne ( Dom's custom rifles) near Bunclody co. Wexford will rebarrel it for you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wot he said

gunny123

Any idea of the cost ?

Cass

Your average barrel runs between £250 to £550 depending on brand. So that's about €300 to €700 (includes shipping). Fitting is usually between €250 to €300.

So you are looking at a minimum of €550 to a max of €1,000. Anything more than a grand and its either a hard to get brand of barrel (which i've done) or you need to check the price.

Bergara barrels were always thought of as a poor barrel to the extent i knew some that would not fit or use them. I think it was a combination of the low price and the fact that they were new, to here. These would be the lower end of the spectrum. I've seen these bought for £220 to £270.

Brux barrels. A new name, at least here, but by all accounts a good barrel. All it lacks is the name that popular brands already have. I believe they range in price from €350 up.

Tru-Flite and similar barrels can be classed as middle to higher end because of the variety. Its down to the length, twist rate, contour, and calibre that will determine price. There is also a line of match select barrels that run a little more. This is true for most manufacturers. Prices go from €400 or so up.

Then you have the likes of Bartlein, Kreiger, Lothar Walther, etc. These can go from €450 up to €650. I love Bartlein. Rifle cut, and a proven performer. My last one cost nearly €700. This is due to the it being 32", heavy sports taper, with fluting in 30 cal and the fact that when i bought it Sterling was stomping the ass of the Euro (around £0.73 per Euro).

A few tips:

• Get what YOU want, and not what they want you to want. I've seen lads start of with Bartlein or some similar barrel in mind only to end up with Bergara thinking they're the same. They're not.
• If brand is not important well getting value for your money is. So don't pay Bartlein prices for Bergara quality. If you're not sure try Fox Firearms in the UK. Brian is a gent and supplies most makes of barrels. He'll give you cash prices on any make you want.
• If you find the price you're being quoted is far above the normal price (than if buying direct) then buy direct. Then pay to have it fitted.
• Check what is available before ordering. Some manufacturers either charge more for certain contours, fluting or twists and some don't even do certain features.
• Check your quote for charges that frankly have no business being on an invoice. If you're paying a little more for the barrel than you can buy it for yourself, and paying €300 or more for fitting then you don't need to be paying VAT, or any fees for the tools used to do the job of fitting it. So settle on a price and be happy with it before any work starts, and make sure you're informed of any increases that should occur before the work is done.
• When finished check the work. Everyone can make mistakes. Make sure the barrel is what you ordered, the length you wanted, and check the rifle can chamber a round and ask if it was test fired, and where the test casings are.
• DO NOT pay for the entire job all up front. Agree on a deposit and pay it. The balance can be settled upon completion and inspection.

I won't drag the thread off topic but there was a gunsmith, who i still consider to this day to be the best there is was(?), but he is no longer around. The only other man i'd trust, based on talking to him and the work he has turned out is Dom Byrne. A truly professional set up and top quality work.

There is a new gunsmith "coming to a cinema near you", but that is a little off so no use to you at the moment. I have seen the work he has done on his own stuff while waiting to get everything else done all nice and legal and it's impressive. I will update some more when he is fully up and running, hopefully sometime in the new year.

gunny123

Can a barrel blank be bought without a licence ? Someone told me a blank isn't considered a barrel until a chamber has been cut. If i could buy the blank, and then get it fitted later it would break up the costs for a bit.

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

Can a barrel blank be bought without a licence ? Someone told me a blank isn't considered a barrel until a chamber has been cut.

That is a tough one as barrels and gunsmithing is still relatively new. However i'd go with no. Regardless of the chambering its still a component part of a firearm and needs a license. Plus the blank will still be calibre bored (if that is a way to describe it). IOW while it might be unchambered it'll still be 30cal, or 6mm, etc.

As for the license you can have as many spare barrels of the same calibre as you are licensed on. I had almost half a dozen barrels at one point. All 30 cal in 308 chambering. So my 308 license covered me for them. However as soon as you change calibre/chambering you need a new license.

If i could buy the blank, and then get it fitted later it would break up the costs for a bit.

You still can, which might sound contrary to the above, but its not.

You can buy in the barrel, have it sent to a dealer or even a friend with a 30 cal license. Then apply for the license when you settle on a chambering and get it fitted at a later date.

SakoHunter75

Cass wrote: »

Your average barrel runs between £250 to £550 depending on brand. So that's about €300 to €700 (includes shipping). Fitting is usually between €250 to €300.

So you are looking at a minimum of €550 to a max of €1,000. Anything more than a grand and its either a hard to get brand of barrel (which i've done) or you need to check the price.

Without wanting to drag this discussion off course, in another thread you (Cass) mentioned the 'top and tail' barrel treatment, i.e. removing a section at each end of a worn barrel, recutting the chamber, etc.

Just out of pure curiosity, any idea roughly how much that costs? I presume it's it a fairly major operation (?). When would this be done rather than replacing a barrel? (For a start, only when you want to retain the original calibre, I suppose.)

Cass

SakoHunter75 wrote: »

........... any idea roughly how much that costs?

Its been a while since i got that done. IIRC around the €250 mark. So not too expensive. It's all labour costs as no components are needed (barrel, action, etc)

I presume it's it a fairly major operation (?).

Not really. I'm not a gunsmith, but have seen many of them done.

Essentially the gunsmith:

• Removes the original barrel
• Cuts off the old chamber
• Cuts off the old crown
• Re-chambers the barrel to the original calibre
• Threads the barrel the threading of the action
• Creates a new crown
• Fits the barrel back on
• Then fiddles with the whole thing until he has the alignment of the bore right and the headspace correct.

When would this be done in rather than replacing a barrel? (For a start, only when you want to retain the original calibre, I suppose.)

If you noticed a drop in accuracy or had the bore, borescoped and found fire cracking then it's time to have it done.

It's not needed if you just want to touch up the crown.

As for retaining the original calibre unless you have a second or new license it must always be for the original calibre.

Also barrel are not sold in specific calibres/chamberings (well blanks aren't). So a 30 cal barrel can be turned into a 30-06, 308, 300winmag, etc. All are 30 cal and it's only the chamber that dictates the round. However you cannot change a 308 to a 243. A 243 is a 6mm bullet so needs a 6mm barrel. In a 30cal it just wouldn't work.

SakoHunter75

Cass wrote: »

Essentially the gunsmith:

• Removes the original barrel
• Cuts off the old chamber
• Cuts off the old crown
• Re-chambers the barrel to the original calibre
• Threads the barrel the threading of the action
• Creates a new crown
• Fits the barrel back on
• Then fiddles with the whole thing until he has the alignment of the bore right and the headspace correct.

Thanks Cass.

I presume that how much the barrel would be shortened overall would vary depending on the calibre (so, chamber size), barrel condition towards the muzzle (how far down the serious wear extends?), and other maybe factors?

Cass

The main things to consider, as you said would be the crown, chamber, etc. The chamber would have to be almost entirely cut off as you don't want a ghost chamber. As for the crown not so much. Anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch at most. Sometimes a simple tidy up does it depending on the wear.

As for the rest. We have to consider barrel length. We have laws on the legal minimum length so it's 20" and no less. The law is actually extremely clear on this bit, unlike the grey area of buying a short barreled rifle.

As you rightly pointed out caliber would have an effect. Some calibers need a certain amount of twist/rotation to fully stabilise so going too short to allow for this would lave you with an expensive paper weight.

Grizzly 45

Fabian Connoly up in Letrim does exellent work as well.

Can a barrel blank be bought without a licence ? Someone told me a blank isn't considered a barrel until a chamber has been cut. If i could buy the blank, and then get it fitted later it would break up the costs for a bit.

Pretty much yes that is correct. it is just a tube after all.BUT the rub is most barrel makers will not sell it to you,unless you are in the trade and have a established contract with them.Isnt worth their while selling once offs to the end customer,proably against some law somewhere,and then they dont want some amatuer cutting and chambering their own barrel and it blowing up on them.
And other countries in the EU will only allow a qualified gunsmith to do that kind of work anyway.

---

Then it must be proof shot as well according to law in the various countries.

Others in the US wont ship to Europe due to ITAR law,and if they do its too costly as they are selling a complete replacement barrel ,that needs export clearence ,etc.

It's a Ruger,good solid action,however you might want to check is the action housing steel or aluminium?If it is steel, it is a lot easier to work on,if it is aluminium,you may have problems..I belive Ruger barrels are sweated into the housing or action, and aren't threaded and pinned and if so,it is almost impossible without sending it back to Ruger to get the barrel out. That's another thing then,costs and hassle,and also if it requires heat to get out and you do it locally,you will proably need a re blueing job done as well.

EDIT,seems you might be lucky there.It does look like a screw in barrel into the action block.

Just saying,this project could run you into the price of just buying a .308 Ruger and getting a stutzen stock made for it too?

gunny123

The thing is i am an engineer by trade, i have a lathe, milling machine etc and don't see any real difficulty in doing the physical work myself. The thing is i would have to buy a chamber reamer too and in addition i am simply too busy to get around to it myself, i know it would end up in pieces in the "must get round to it pile" like so many projects do.

The ruger single shot is the proverbial brick outhouse of actions, they have been barrelled to every round up to the 600 nitro express no problem, its steel and the barrel is screwed into it.

The thing is ruger found them expensive to make, and they wanted to make and sell more ar15's and end production of the no.1, so they only make them for a company called lipseys, who are the sole distributors, and i don't think they sell them outside the usa.

Cass

The law says all repair, maintenance, sales, work, etc, etc. must be carried out by an RFD.

Now like all things Irish this is done with a little common sense. If you want to change your stock, change your trigger, etc. you can. No one would stop you, or give you grief for it. Most wouldn't know unless you told them.

However what you've said, and i'm not in the smallest bit accusing you so please don't take it as such, is exactly what they will not stand for. The actual manufacturing of firearms/firearm components. Your position puts a tricky spin on it. The gun is your own, the parts are legally imported, and all licensed. So you'd think everything is above board? not according to the Firearms Act.

Its says unless you have the bit of paper with RFD on it, you cannot do this. I cannot think of which part it is of the top of my head (section 10 or something to that effect) but i'll try find it and stick it up.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

The law says all repair, maintenance, sales, work, etc, etc. must be carried out by an RFD.

Now like all things Irish this is done with a little common sense. If you want to change your stock, change your trigger, etc. you can. No one would stop you, or give you grief for it. Most wouldn't know unless you told them.

However what you've said, and i'm not in the smallest bit accusing you so please don't take it as such, is exactly what they will not stand for. The actual manufacturing of firearms/firearm components. Your position puts a tricky spin on it. The gun is your own, the parts are legally imported, and all licensed. So you'd think everything is above board? not according to the Firearms Act.

Its says unless you have the bit of paper with RFD on it, you cannot do this. I cannot think of which part it is of the top of my head (section 10 or something to that effect) but i'll try find it and stick it up.

Sounds like the usual irish fudge, i know plenty of rfd's who couldn't bang a nail in, let alone work on a firearm.

mcgrathm6

So technically if i change the barrel on my Sauer 205 that could be seen as breaking the law? I am looking into getting a replacement(Same caliber) walter lothar barrel from Norway.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Sounds like the usual irish fudge, i know plenty of rfd's who couldn't bang a nail in, let alone work on a firearm.

And the other Irish fudge is both trades are as different as moon rocks and cheese.But you become a qualified gunsmith if you are an RFD..A gunsmith is a 5 year guild trade apprenticeship anywhere in the EU.Bar here of course.

Would you feel happy going into a top mark car dealership and see the sales rep emerge from the grease pit in his suit with a grease gun to sell you the latest model car?Or the grease monkey,trying to sell you the same?
Worse here is that some RFDs farm the work out [obviously] to their pal, Danny Joe, down in the local black smiths cum machine shop,and Danny Joe who has just finished welding up a rake of cattle crushes is now going to go and do a delicate braze job on your shotgun rib,or thread a barrel for your silencer in the a lathe where the apprentice was just finished threading 4in : GB water pipes for someone's bull bars!:eek:

After seeing some complete and utter abortions of "gunsmithing" done by some gunsmiths/RFDs here,I am really in favour of gunsmithing being an utter seperate and liscensed trade in Ireland.That's not to say being a qualified gunsmith is the be and end all either.There are a couple here who profess to be that as well,and they seriously need to go back to gunsmith school too.

Rule of thumb,gunsmith jobs are anything that require heating,welding,machining,filing,cutting,drilling or creating metal spall,chips or filings off metallic gun parts.
Installing replacement parts,stocks,forends,sights,scopes etc that does not need any of the previous processes you should be good to go under EU law.
So making barrels unless you are a qualified GS ,is out the door I'm afraid.

Grizzly 45

mcgrathm6 wrote: »

So technically if i change the barrel on my Sauer 205 that could be seen as breaking the law? I am looking into getting a replacement(Same caliber) walter lothar barrel from Norway.

If it is a "quick change " barrel system..No,because it is already designed for that from the makers.Even if it means using tools.[IE Allen keys,etc]
If however it requires sweating out the barrel with heat,or and re torquing the barrel and/or drilling out retainer pins. then Yes.