TK Whitaker - Father of Modern Ireland

JupiterKid

Economist and former civil servant TK Whitaker turned 100 today. Most on here probably don't know who this man is, but his then radical economic policies of the late 1950s and early 60s laid the foundations for the modern, wealthy, tolerant Ireland that we all live in today.

Bascially back in the 1950s Ireland was a social and economic basket case. 30 years had passed since we gained our independence but we had precious little to show for it. A backward economy, utterly dependent on an agricultural sector which was antiquated, third world infrastructure, rampant emigration and a Catholic church that was utterly stifling. This was the result of DeValera's vision of an isolationist, protectionist Ireland with "comely maidens" dancing at the crossroads.

Except those maidens were all pretty much emigrating along with the young fellas. The only career opportunities were farming, the priesthood, the civil service or, if lucky, the banks and professions which were closed off to most except for the privileged few.

Whitaker and his colleagues realised that something urgently needed to be done. He drew up the Programme For Economic Expansion, paving the way for opening up Ireland to inward investment, industrialisation, modernisation and development. During the 1960s and early 70s Ireland boomed like never before - hundreds of new businesses opened, the middle class grew hugely and there was a construction boom of suburban housing, office blocks and shopping centres. Whitaker also spearheaded negotiations for our entry into the EU in 1973.

Despite his advancing years, he always kept abreast of the latest economic and social developments, being critical of the banking sector during the great property bubble of 1998 to 2007.

He remains a very affable, modest man. But he laid the foundations for today's Ireland and we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude.:)

maudgonner

I like his lemonade.

(Not a euphemism)

The_Valeyard

Happy B-Day TK.


Wonder what it's like to be 100, alive and kicking and know students learn about you in school.

Fleawuss

The man who could truly say he did the State and the people some service and who stands head and shoulders above the politicians who neatly destroyed this country.

buried

Happy umbilical cord cutting day anniversary TK! Thanks for the video stores and the rave music

WoollyRedHat

Him, Lemass and Browne, actual visionaries who did something positive and weren't obsessed with just lining their pockets .

Fleawuss

Fleawuss wrote: »

The man who could truly say he did the State and the people some service and who stands head and shoulders above the politicians who neatly destroyed this country.

Ummmmmmm...how about Sean Lemass? The OP remarkably managed to forget the Taoiseach who implemented Whitakers policies...

Fleawuss

Deleted User wrote: »

Ummmmmmm...how about Sean Lemass? The OP remarkably managed to forget the Taoiseach who implemented Whitakers policies...

You've answered yourself.

Grandeeod

Deleted User wrote: »

Ummmmmmm...how about Sean Lemass? The OP remarkably managed to forget the Taoiseach who implemented Whitakers policies...

Its answered above by another poster. TKW was part of the process like Lemass.

There won't be many of us here that know or appreciate the OPs points about TKW. Ireland was a very different place back then and TKW and his few ilk, deserve a lot of gratitude.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

Its answered above by another poster. TKW was part of the process like Lemass.

Precisely. Without Lemass, Whitaker would have been a civil servant with a few ideas. Hence I was responding to the poster who said that he stood head and shoulders above politicians, he stood very much side by side with one and they will be forever associated in Irish history.

Fleawuss

Deleted User wrote: »

Precisely. Without Lemass, Whitaker would have been a civil servant with a few ideas. Hence I was responding to the poster who said that he stood head and shoulders above politicians, he stood very much side by side with one and they will be forever associated in Irish history.

Untrue. Whitaker worked with Sweetman of FG in drawing up the the economic regeneration plan. Describing his work as "a few ideas" shows how limited your own are. Lemass was one of the politicians who implemented the policies. Claiming the credit is of course the most worn out hackneyed cynical approach of the tribe known as FF.

Grandeeod

Deleted User wrote: »

Precisely. Without Lemass, Whitaker would have been a civil servant with a few ideas. Hence I was responding to the poster who said that he stood head and shoulders above politicians, he stood very much side by side with one and they will be forever associated in Irish history.

We probably need a few more civil servants like TKW so.;)

JupiterKid

Yes, Lemass was instrumental in implementing Whitaker's plans but without Whitaker and his team, it is highly unlikely that Ireland would have begun to modernise when it did so.

Fleawuss

Fleawuss wrote: »

Untrue. Whitaker worked with Sweetman of FG in drawing up the the economic regeneration plan. Describing his work as "a few ideas" shows how limited your own are. Lemass was one of the politicians who implemented the policies. Claiming the credit is of course the most worn out hackneyed cynical approach of the tribe known as FF.

But sure you can fondly remember Sweetman and the history books can fondly remember Lemass and everyone's happy...

Fleawuss

Deleted User wrote: »

But sure you can fondly remember Sweetman and the history books can fondly remember Lemass and everyone's happy...

The history books remember both. The Cumann talk of course just addled people's brains. The history books will also record that when the people got a chance to decide in 2001 they picked Whitaker as Irishman of the twentieth century. Not Collins, Dev or Lemass.

nice_guy80

Hope he enjoys his 100th birthday bonus

The_Valeyard

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Hope he enjoys his 100th birthday bonus

Card from the President?

Fleawuss

Fleawuss wrote: »

The history books will also record that when the people got a chance to decide in 2001 they picked Whitaker as Irishman of the twentieth century. Not Collins, Dev or Lemass.

Source?

I can only find reference to an RTE programme doing it in 2001.

In the poll in 2010, John Hume won, though Bono and Stephen Gately both made the top 10 which perhaps showed the value of such polls...

Fleawuss

Deleted User wrote: »

Source?

I can only find reference to an RTE programme doing it in 2001.

In the poll in 2010, John Hume won, though Bono and Stephen Gately both made the top 10 which perhaps showed the value of such polls...

You know the source and ask for it. You disagree with the result so "it's only RTÉ". And because other people you dislike appear in some other poll for which you don't supply a source you dismiss "the value of such polls".

Grandeeod

Deleted User wrote: »

Source?

I can only find reference to an RTE programme doing it in 2001.

In the poll in 2010, John Hume won, though Bono and Stephen Gately both made the top 10 which perhaps showed the value of such polls...

If you don't mind me asking, you seem to have a problem with TKWs recognition over political recognition. Is it because you appreciate political history or are you affiliated to a particular party. I don't really mind. Just curious.

Water John

Just a nod to the great thinker TK. A man who believed that everybody should be able to share in the wealth of the country.
Thanks for the thread, OP.

nice_guy80

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Card from the President?

you get €1,200 in the post

diomed

He must be wore out signing all those bank notes.
Well played TK.

Fleawuss

Fleawuss wrote: »

You know the source and ask for it. You disagree with the result so "it's only RTÉ". And because other people you dislike appear in some other poll for which you don't supply a source you dismiss "the value of such polls".

You said that "when the people got to decide".

I only found a reference to an RTE programme.

If that was indeed the source, it's rather far from "the people deciding".

Fleawuss

Deleted User wrote: »

You said that "when the people got to decide".

I only found a reference to an RTE programme.

If that was indeed the source, it's rather far from "the people deciding".

If you know it was RTÉ you know how they decided. It's very easily found on Google. http://https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/tk-whitaker-ireland-s-man-of-the-century-turns-99-1.2463149%3Fmode%3Damp

judeboy101

Am I the only one who remembers that this is the man who convinced Jack Lynch to stand by and watch the slaughter of Irish men and women by the Brits in the north?

JupiterKid

judeboy101 wrote: »

Am I the only one who remembers that this is the man who convinced Jack Lynch to stand by and watch the slaughter of Irish men and women by the Brits in the north?

TK Whitaker's positive contributions massively outweigh any negatives.

Anyhow, I'm not sure getting directly militarily involved in the NI troubles in the early 1970s would have been a good idea - it would have dragged the entire island into a new civil war and probably have destroyed the country economically. Would it have been worth it?

I just see bitterness in your post.

marienbad

judeboy101 wrote: »

Am I the only one who remembers that this is the man who convinced Jack Lynch to stand by and watch the slaughter of Irish men and women by the Brits in the north?

what was the alternative ?

Fleawuss

judeboy101 wrote: »

Am I the only one who remembers that this is the man who convinced Jack Lynch to stand by and watch the slaughter of Irish men and women by the Brits in the north?

There is no such man. He's a figment of the imagination of alt "republicanism".

topper75

JupiterKid wrote: »

spearheaded negotiations for our entry into the EU in 1973.

There is forward-thinking, which he was. And then there is time travel, which he didn't do.

The EEC, God rest it, worked just fine.

topper75

marienbad wrote: »

what was the alternative ?

MAAAAARA! What gob****e places a space before a question mark?

mad muffin

Is he related to Forest Whitaker?

judeboy101

JupiterKid wrote: »

TK Whitaker's positive contributions massively outweigh any negatives.

Anyhow, I'm not sure getting directly militarily involved in the NI troubles in the early 1970s would have been a good idea - it would have dragged the entire island into a new civil war and probably have destroyed the country economically. Would it have been worth it?

I just see bitterness in your post.

A simple incursion across the foyle into Derry, it would have taken Brits a week to mobilize a ground response, in the meantime a quick word in the US ambassadors ear that if UN do not get involved we will withdraw our troops from NI, completely shut the border and rent out cobh harbour to the USSR. Instead we listened to the civil servant who was born in the UK.

fiveleavesleft

Whitaker is very interesting. When you take the big names of modern Irish history, Haughey, Bertie, Gerry Adams, Paisley, Bono, Dinny etc... They all arouse strong feelings in Irish people from digs, abuse, jokes to outright hatred! Whitaker however is universally admired & respected by everyone.

Perhaps TK was the cutest hoor we ever produced, so you may well be right he is the father of Modern Ireland!

marienbad

judeboy101 wrote: »

A simple incursion across the foyle into Derry, it would have taken Brits a week to mobilize a ground response, in the meantime a quick word in the US ambassadors ear that if UN do not get involved we will withdraw our troops from NI, completely shut the border and rent out cobh harbour to the USSR. Instead we listened to the civil servant who was born in the UK.

There is no such thing as 'as simple incursion' into a Sovereign state . Pie in the sky stuff

maudgonner

judeboy101 wrote: »

A simple incursion across the foyle into Derry, it would have taken Brits a week to mobilize a ground response, in the meantime a quick word in the US ambassadors ear that if UN do not get involved we will withdraw our troops from NI, completely shut the border and rent out cobh harbour to the USSR. Instead we listened to the civil servant who was born in the UK.

He was born in Co Down in 1916. No matter where on this island he was born he would have been born in the UK.

cajonlardo

judeboy101 wrote: »

A simple incursion across the foyle into Derry, it would have taken Brits a week to mobilize a ground response, in the meantime a quick word in the US ambassadors ear that if UN do not get involved we will withdraw our troops from NI, completely shut the border and rent out cobh harbour to the USSR. Instead we listened to the civil servant who was born in the UK.

I have a feeling you are fully aware that this was examined in detail and discounted as idiocy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Armageddon

Outlaw Pete

Kirk Douglas turned 100 today too.

judeboy101

cajonlardo wrote: »

I have a feeling you are fully aware that this was examined in detail and discounted as idiocy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Armageddon

The threat to allow Russians unfettered access to the north Atlantic was not discussed. Whitaker was just one in a long list of faceless sir Humphreys, unable to find a niche in his own country, but fawned upon by the mandarins in the Irish civil service. You can see other UK rejects like him at the head of the HSE today.

marienbad

judeboy101 wrote: »

The threat to allow Russians unfettered access to the north Atlantic was not discussed. Whitaker was just one in a long list of faceless sir Humphreys, unable to find a niche in his own country, but fawned upon by the mandarins in the Irish civil service. You can see other UK rejects like him at the head of the HSE today.

How do you know ?

Even though it would have been madness , we were trying to join the EEC and entice US companies to Ireland , why would we apply such a self inflicted wound ?

judeboy101

marienbad wrote: »

How do you know ?

Even though it would have been madness , we were trying to join the EEC and entice US companies to Ireland , why would we apply such a self inflicted wound ?

Entice US companies in 1960's ? A come on. You'd be a fool to think that Irish policy towards the north wasn't run through Whitehall and Mi6. The betrayal of lynch's government of the people of ulster was a stain on his career and the fact Whitaker, a UK citizen with strong ties to his native country had such influence in him, is no happy accident. As for the Russians, of course it would be insane, but the Americans would do anything to avoid another Cuba, and getting UN boots on the ground would be a small price to pay. As for the EEC, sure they had no problem with countries joining who had active communist parties.

Galwayguy35

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Kirk Douglas turned 100 today too.

Aye but he doesn't seem to be in as good a shape as this oul boy.

BadBannana

judeboy101 wrote: »

Am I the only one who remembers that this is the man who convinced Jack Lynch to stand by and watch the slaughter of Irish men and women by the Brits in the north?

Are you suggesting an invasion or just baiting us?

marienbad

judeboy101 wrote: »

Entice US companies in 1960's ? A come on. You'd be a fool to think that Irish policy towards the north wasn't run through Whitehall and Mi6. The betrayal of lynch's government of the people of ulster was a stain on his career and the fact Whitaker, a UK citizen with strong ties to his native country had such influence in him, is no happy accident. As for the Russians, of course it would be insane, but the Americans would do anything to avoid another Cuba, and getting UN boots on the ground would be a small price to pay. As for the EEC, sure they had no problem with countries joining who had active communist parties.

Have you sources for anything you have posted above ?

Such a pity when people don't even know their own history , particularly when it is so easily available

''Shannon Free Zone is Ireland's largest cluster of North American investments. Since its establishment in 1959, more than 110 overseas companies have chosen to open subsidiaries in Shannon''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon,_County_Clare

judeboy101

marienbad wrote: »

Have you sources for anything you have posted above ?

Such a pity when people don't even know their own history , particularly when it is so easily available

''Shannon Free Zone is Ireland's largest cluster of North American investments. Since its establishment in 1959, more than 110 overseas companies have chosen to open subsidiaries in Shannon''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon,_County_Clare

He was born in the UK ergo his allegiance would naturally be with his saxe Coburg overlords.

Water John

So was James Connolly. Nonsense post.

marienbad

judeboy101 wrote: »

He was born in the UK ergo his allegiance would naturally be with his saxe Coburg overlords.

In 1970 everyone born in Ireland before the early 1920's was born in the UK !

So have you given up on your 'Enticing US companies in the 1960's ' argument

osarusan

judeboy101 wrote: »

He was born in the UK ergo his allegiance would naturally be with his saxe Coburg overlords.

Do you have any idea how much shyte you're talking?

judeboy101

Water John wrote: »

So was James Connolly. Nonsense post.

And Connolly led men to their death in 1916. Seems to me that these uk Irish have a habit of doing this.

padd b1975

marienbad wrote: »

what was the alternative ?

Our army wiped out, then the British forces have their lunch.

judeboy101

padd b1975 wrote: »

Our army wiped out, then the British forces have their lunch.

One Irish battalion embedded in Derry would take weeks to clear unless the British army wanted to carpet bomb their own people. Within hrs of the incursion jack lynch brings the British and America ambassadors into an office and shows them a communique from their Russian counterpart indicating Russian interest on a 50 year lease of cobh harbour and use of Shannon airport for refueling and repair. Lynch gives them 24hrs to convene the UN security council to pass a resolution establishing a peacekeeping force up north. French and Americans wont want to look over their shoulders towards Ireland so put the pressure on UK.