Stuff

Dr Crayfish

So walking about town today, well every day as I work there, I noticed the huge increase in the amount of absolute rubbish that's for sale for Christmas. Plastic things, decorations, overly packaged rubbish, just absolutely everywhere.
Probably 99% of this junk will end up in a land fill within the next few months, so the whole process of creating this nonsense was a waste of resources like oil, plastic, human labour, money etc.
Millions of turkeys and pigs will be slaughtered and probably only half eaten in this country alone. Just waste everywhere.
Would this not go against the very idea of Christianity? Splurging on rubbish when we could probably help those in need?
Christmas is totally unsustainable, as is the current Western lifestyle.
Do you think we should have some kind of rules on what people can create and try to sell these days? Should food come in no packaging or as little as possible?
Or are we on a one way journey to sucking every last mineral out of the Earth and polluting everything around us?
Just ask yourself if you really need every bit of rubbish you're purchasing over the next few weeks - you probably don't, nor does anyone else.

The flying mouse

Happy Christmas to you to Dr.

Dr Crayfish

The flying mouse wrote: »

Happy Christmas to you to Dr.

Enjoy the 1,056 thanks you'll get for that post. Sigh.

eeguy

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

So walking about town today, well every day as I work there, I noticed the huge increase in the amount of absolute rubbish that's for sale for Christmas. Plastic things, decorations, overly packaged rubbish, just absolutely everywhere.
Probably 99% of this junk will end up in a land fill within the next few months, so the whole process of creating this nonsense was a waste of resources like oil, plastic, human labour, money etc.
Millions of turkeys and pigs will be slaughtered and probably only half eaten in this country alone. Just waste everywhere.
Would this not go against the very idea of Christianity? Splurging on rubbish when we could probably help those in need?
Christmas is totally unsustainable, as is the current Western lifestyle.
Do you think we should have some kind of rules on what people can create and try to sell these days? Should food come in no packaging or as little as possible?
Or are we on a one way journey to sucking every last mineral out of the Earth and polluting everything around us?
Just ask yourself if you really need every bit of rubbish you're purchasing over the next few weeks - you probably don't, nor does anyone else.

Since when is Christmas about Christianity?
Can't remember the last time I went to mass

ThisRegard

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Christmas is totally unsustainable,

It's managed over 2,000 years, I think it might be OK.

Dr Crayfish

eeguy wrote: »

Since when is Christmas about Christianity?
Can't remember the last time I went to mass

Right, but what is it about then? Mass consumerism, i.e. what seems likely to be this civilisation's ultimate downfall?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Capitalism really snuck up on you when you weren't looking, huh? Hate that.

I agree with the sentiment though.

Dr Crayfish

Anton Low Stomach wrote: »

Capitalism really snuck up on you when you weren't looking, huh? Hate that.

I agree with the sentiment though.

It's just more rubbish by the day. Euro shops and middle class Euro shops (Tiger) selling absolute rubbish. People on Dragon's Den trying to come up with new rubbish to sell us. The rubbish we already own isn't good enough so we need to upgrade to better rubbish! FFS there must be another way.

Olishi4

Oh no, not The Stuff!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPDzJ3XVhg

Barry Badrinath

Have you a tangible and workable solution OP or is this just a bitchfest?

The flying mouse

These threads come around ,well every year, And yes it is to commercialised and yes people spend to much money on what they don't want , but hey, its Christmas & for most people its a time to celebrate relax & chill.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's just more rubbish by the day. Euro shops and middle class Euro shops (Tiger) selling absolute rubbish. People on Dragon's Den trying to come up with new rubbish to sell us. The rubbish we already own isn't good enough so we need to upgrade to better rubbish! FFS there must be another way.

Well there is, but it involves the words proletariat, means of production etc and really gets people pissed off! Also historically hasn't tended to work out too well at all at all so hey ho here we are, stage four capitalism.

SEPT 23 1989

Millions of delicious turkeys and pigs will be slaughtered

Atoms for Peace

William S. Borroughs said it better than anyone:

"Junk is the ideal product. The ultimate merchandise. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy. The junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer. He sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client."

Grayson

The flying mouse wrote: »

These threads come around ,well every year, And yes it is to commercialised and yes people spend to much money on what they don't want , but hey, its Christmas & for most people its a time to celebrate relax & chill.

But you can do that without crap. I have loads of xmas decorations. They're all glass baubles that I bought on the cheap on eBay. The same goes for all the decorations for the walls etc. They're stuff that can be reused every year and I add to it bit by bit over time.

Dr Crayfish

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Have you a tangible and workable solution OP or is this just a bitchfest?

It's bitchfest to a certain extent. But Yeah. I would bring in EU wide restrictions on packaging and at some stage we'll have to cap production on things that actually need to be made or not. People adapt quickly, look at the plastic bag tax. Ready meals and avocados flown in from Peru are 100% not necessary. Change really needs to happen sooner or later!

Dr Crayfish

Anton Low Stomach wrote: »

Well there is, but it involves the words proletariat, means of production etc and really gets people pissed off! Also historically hasn't tended to work out too well at all at all so hey ho here we are, stage four capitalism.

But aren't we going to have to drastically change our standards of living sooner or later, or else face war and starvation?

SEPT 23 1989

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

But aren't we going to have to drastically change our standards of living sooner or later, or else face war and starvation?

It won't happen before Christmas

andekwarhola

Anybody started their Christmas shopping yet?

humberklog

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Anton Low Stomach wrote: »

Capitalism really snuck up on you when you weren't looking, huh? Hate that.

I agree with the sentiment though.

It's just more rubbish by the day. Euro shops and middle class Euro shops (Tiger) selling absolute rubbish. People on Dragon's Den trying to come up with new rubbish to sell us. The rubbish we already own isn't good enough so we need to upgrade to better rubbish! FFS there must be another way.

You're not wrong OP but are you measuring it against another time or just a stand alone rant about Christmas goods?

I'm 46 and if anything the easily perishable and visually offensive tat has got less.
There's better quality and affordable and durable items on sale now than ever before in my memory.

Dr Crayfish

humberklog wrote: »

You're not wrong OP but are you measuring it against another time or just a stand alone rant about Christmas goods?

I'm 46 and if anything the easily perishable and visually offensive tat has got less.
There's better quality and affordable and durable items on sale now than ever before in my memory.

I guess town has been packed lately with people carrying shopping bags so it's got me thinking.
Currently we seem to be on a manic drive to exploit every place and thing on the Earth as a whole. The amount of resources we're wasting on tat we don't need is alarming.
I suppose this civilisation will be judged on whether we were able to make the correct decisions as a group, or not. So far it's not looking good.

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's bitchfest to a certain extent. But Yeah. I would bring in EU wide restrictions on packaging and at some stage we'll have to cap production on things that actually need to be made or not. People adapt quickly, look at the plastic bag tax. Ready meals and avocados flown in from Peru are 100% not necessary. Change really needs to happen sooner or later!

Reduction on packaging I can agree with. It works with Easter Eggs.

Capping further production of "stuff"? Jog on buddy.....thats never going to happen. Even the suggestion is ludacris!

So if I may summise your version of this World.

No further inventions, upgrades, innovations, improvements or future proofing of any products or services. Literally only buy whatever products can be sourced currently from our land and country and in as little as packaging as possible?

Am I taking you up wrong here Chief?

looksee

One of the worst 'stuff' you can buy is plastic bottles of water and other drinks. Reusable plastic bottle, coin op chilled water refill in a city centre arcade/ shop/ whatever...anybody going to try it?

The flying mouse

Wont anybody think of the turkeys...

Dr Crayfish

The flying mouse wrote: »

Wont anybody think of the turkeys...

Do you want to just put all your pointless comments into one post maybe?

The flying mouse

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Do you want to just put all your pointless comments into one post maybe?

I am trying to keep your thread going before it dies a death... fecking ungrateful teenagers...

Fr_Dougal

With Helmans, there are no leftovers.

drdeadlift

op i cant agree with you more.There is so much **** for sale.People continually asking me oh what do you want for xmas....i dont need anything.

I tihnk going out for a few gargles is all i need,and presents for the kids..

Dr Crayfish

drdeadlift wrote: »

op i cant agree with you more.There is so much **** for sale.People continually asking me oh what do you want for xmas....i dont need anything.

I tihnk going out for a few gargles is all i need,and presents for the kids..

Ditto. I don't really need anything. I'm from a small family and we're not into Xmas anyway, but I've already told them no rubbish this year! I think I'll get them a hotel stay or restaurant vouchers, I'd quite like that myself actually.

Ted111

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Right, but what is it about then? Mass consumerism, i.e. what seems likely to be this civilisation's ultimate downfall?

Pagan mid winter festival long predates Christianity (which just attached its name and trappings to it) It's meaning was probably the same as today - to the break up the long dark cold winter with a big party in the middle of it.

Fuzzytrooper

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Mass consumerism

Priests flogging merchandise? What next?

Dr Crayfish

Fuzzytrooper wrote: »

Priests flogging merchandise? What next?

Save your Wildean wit for the creative writing forum

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Save your Wildean wit for the creative writing forum

On the basis of your first post, what measures are you NOW taking in your own life, apart from posting here?

Have you discarded any "useless" stuff in your home and are you selling any of your items with the intent of helping the less fortunate?

Do you intend to forego consumerism this Christmas in favour of helping out the needy?

Dr Crayfish

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

On the basis of your first post, what measures are you NOW taking in your own life, apart from posting here?

Have you discarded any "useless" stuff in your home and are you selling any of your items with the intent of helping the less fortunate?

Do you intend to forego consumerism this Christmas in favour of helping out the needy?

Well I would consider myself a minimalist when it comes to possessions. I try and buy as little stuff as possible and I pretty much eat the same veg and meat all week. When I moved into my place all my furniture except beds were given to me by friends and family. I know recycling is kind of pointless but I do it anyway with any rubbish I have.
I wont be partaking in Xmas really as I live alone and my family aren't into it, although I do enjoy the work dos etc.
And forget about helping the needy, we would all be helping ourselves stay on this planet a little longer if we just stopped wasting so much stuff all year round.

As a side, why did you use the thread to try and pick at me instead of maybe discussing the issue I raised?

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well I would consider myself a minimalist when it comes to possessions. I try and buy as little stuff as possible and I pretty much eat the same veg and meat all week. When I moved into my place all my furniture except beds were given to me by friends and family. I know recycling is kind of pointless but I do it anyway with any rubbish I have.
I wont be partaking in Xmas really as I live alone and my family aren't into it, although I do enjoy the work dos etc.
And forget about helping the needy, we would all be helping ourselves stay on this planet a little longer if we just stopped wasting so much stuff all year round.

As a side, why did you use the thread to try and pick at me instead of maybe discussing the issue I raised?

I'm not "picking", I'm discussing. Don't be getting defensive. If you are going to start a thread, you should expect questions. You invited this conversation, not me.

It's quite normal for a person to ask what you are currently doing to mitigate the issues you have raised.

Now, you mentioned people in need in your OP so thats why I asked what you will be doing for them. By your latest response, it seems nothing.

Your above post suggests that your first post is garnered from current situational experience rather than deep rooted beliefs.

Because you live alone, have no pallet variety, furnished your home at the will of others and have little or no desire / facility to celebrate Christmas and its assosciated excesses.....you want all of us to look at ourselves and amend our social lifestyle to that as minimalist as yours.

You fell into your situation moreso than designed it by morals.

We should follow your lead? No.

Alf Veedersane

The amount of waste is just magnified at Christmas but as has been said already, it's a year-round problem.

And while some are better than others at keeping their wastage down, very few of us really actually tackle the wastage to any meaningful degree and it's mostly just if it's convenient or not inconvenient.

Dr Crayfish

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Because you live alone, have no pallet variety, furnished your home at the will of others and have little or no desire / facility to celebrate Christmas and its assosciated excesses.....you want all of us to look at ourselves and amend our social lifestyle to that as minimalist as yours.

You fell into your situation moreso than designed it by morals.

We should follow your lead? No.

The will of others? I went begging yes :rolleyes:. Luckily friends and family were keen to offer (or get rid!) of tonnes of stuff as soon as I secured buying a house. I guarantee you you or anyone else could have decent furniture in their house in no time if you made a few calls or looked at a few websites.
I didn't fall into my situation, it's exactly where I want to be!
Do you think it's sustainable to consume as we do nowadays? For me, Xmas shows up our over consumption at it's worst. I find it very worrying as this planet is finite.

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The will of others? I went begging yes :rolleyes:. Luckily friends and family were keen to offer (or get rid!) of tonnes of stuff as soon as I secured buying a house. I guarantee you you or anyone else could have decent furniture in their house in no time if you made a few calls or looked at a few websites.
I didn't fall into my situation, it's exactly where I want to be!
Do you think it's sustainable to consume as we do nowadays? For me, Xmas shows up our over consumption at it's worst. I find it very worrying as this planet is finite.

I didnt suggest you were "begging". Being gifted furniture is still at the will of others. I was the same myself. Adverts is a great site for pre loved items. So shove your rolleyes.

You did fall into your current situation. Did you plan to be offered furniture from friends and family? No.

Food wise, you may be happy to eat the same stuff all the time and create minimal waste. Thats fine. Others are different.

Christmas wise, your family arent into it, that counts as "falling into it" as you didnt plan or design that. If your family were "into it", your viewpoint may well be different.

What is your current knowledge of waste recycling on a localised, industrisl and Global scale?

Before you decide we cant take anymore, discover the mechanisms currently in place and accurately assess it.

Then come back and try and start a revolution.

Alf Veedersane

To be fair, we're all guilty here. Not just the people who buy tat at Christmas.

Do we put on a jumper instead of turn on the heating?

How much do we actually reuse?

How much effort do we really put into sustainable transport and using bikes /feet/public transport even when it's not hugely convenient?

Sure, some of us do our bit but can we really say all our decisions put the planet first or is it all a bit a la carte?

And should we have to?

bodhrandude

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Millions of delicious turkeys and pigs will be slaughtered

Don't forget heaps of brussel sprouts with a dodd of butter on top.

Dr Crayfish

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Sure, some of us do our bit but can we really say all our decisions put the planet first or is it all a bit a la carte?

And should we have to?

We may not have to now but it's looking like we'll have to do something sooner or later.
I find it fascinating that people wont even talk about less consumption, politicians solely focus on growth and consuming more which is completely unsustainable. I also find if you ever bring it up on boards you get attacked by posters.

Alf Veedersane

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

We may not have to now but it's looking like we'll have to do something sooner or later.
I find it fascinating that people wont even talk about less consumption, politicians solely focus on growth and consuming more which is completely unsustainable. I also find if you ever bring it up on boards you get attacked by posters.

The truth is everyone should be living in a way that you, I and everyone else don't want to because it's not comfortable.

Dr Crayfish

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The truth is everyone should be living in a way that you, I and everyone else don't want to because it's not comfortable.

I don't think it would have to be that uncomfortable but a lot of things would have to change, yeah.

Alf Veedersane

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't think it would have to be that uncomfortable but a lot of things would have to change, yeah.

It's possible you're not thinking about how much your actions would have to change. I'm not having a go at you but it goes way beyond reusing furniture as commendable as that is.

How renewable are the sources of energy you use? How much do you really minimise water consumption?

I mean the abstract 'you', ftr.

Dr Crayfish

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's possible you're not thinking about how much your actions would have to change. I'm not having a go at you but it goes way beyond reusing furniture as commendable as that is.

How renewable are the sources of energy you use? How much do you really minimise water consumption?

I mean the abstract 'you', ftr.

Oh I'm totally aware of that, in order to actually slow things down and undo some of the damage we've done would require massive changes. But if you take the 70s or so, when people were relatively comfortable and happy in the West anyway, consumption levels and energy used has increased dramatically since then. Going back to a level like that with better technology mightn't be so bad.
Ridiculous to even contemplate that really because it will never happen, crash and burn is all I can see!

Clonmel1000

The flying mouse wrote: »

Happy Christmas to you to Dr.

It's not Christmas it's bloody November

Alf Veedersane

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Oh I'm totally aware of that, in order to actually slow things down and undo some of the damage we've done would require massive changes. But if you take the 70s or so, when people were relatively comfortable and happy in the West anyway, consumption levels and energy used has increased dramatically since then. Going back to a level like that with better technology mightn't be so bad.
Ridiculous to even contemplate that really because it will never happen, crash and burn is all I can see!

The 70s weren't really better though. Less recycling, more landfilling, more emissions, less renewables etc etc.

Alf Veedersane

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Oh I'm totally aware of that, in order to actually slow things down and undo some of the damage we've done would require massive changes. But if you take the 70s or so, when people were relatively comfortable and happy in the West anyway, consumption levels and energy used has increased dramatically since then. Going back to a level like that with better technology mightn't be so bad.
Ridiculous to even contemplate that really because it will never happen, crash and burn is all I can see!

The 70s weren't really better though. Less recycling, more landfilling, more emissions, less renewables etc etc.

Dr Crayfish

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The 70s weren't really better though. Less recycling, more landfilling, more emissions, less renewables etc etc.

I still think we were buying and using a lot less stuff. Also I think we still have the worst recycling rates in Europe!

Barry Badrinath

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I also find if you ever bring it up on boards you get attacked by posters.

Who attacked you?

Alf Veedersane

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I still think we were buying and using a lot less stuff. Also I think we still have the worst recycling rates in Europe!

We have far from the worst recycling rates in Europe. We're better than the EU average.

But the state of the planet is down to more than buying sh*t at Christmas. It's down to stuff we'reall guilty of