Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

dxhound2005 · 17-05-2023 5:31pm

I agree with that, but it would depend on whether Brussels let us do it. One of the main reasons for Brexit is that they stopped the UK putting a picture of the royal crown on pint glasses.

CrabRevolution · 17-05-2023 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608934#Comment_120608934

I assume you're joking?

Not only was the crown on the pint glass not one of the main reasons for Brexit, it was a myth that the EU ever stopped them from having the picture on the pint glass.

VinLieger · 17-05-2023 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608934#Comment_120608934

That crown on a pint glass rumour was absolute bullsh1t, the EU said any other marking was allowed as long as it did not obscure the CE mark they require. The fact you fell for that rubbish says a lot about you to be honest.

LambshankRedemption · 17-05-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608934#Comment_120608934

And I suppose you believed the 350 million on the side of a bus too?

VinLieger · 17-05-2023 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608934#Comment_120608934

I still can't actually believe there's somebody in 2023 that posted this and I have to reply to it again because it's so absurd and wrong in so many ways, the second hand embarrassment everyone reading this has for you is off the charts.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-05-2023 1:12am

Seriously though, all of this labelling should be regulated at the EU level otherwise it creates massive trade barriers.

You can forget about getting low volume / obscure European (or further afield) beers wines spirits in Ireland if they'll all have to be specially labelled. The same goes for low volume brewers / distillers here looking to export, the Irish CANCER labels will hardly help their case overseas so they have the difficulty and expense of relabelling.

None of this is at all necessary. It's just stupid regulation for the sake of it, but the lack of effect it'll have on the on-trade is most certainly notable.

VinLieger · 18-05-2023 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610733#Comment_120610733

Indeed, this will just encourage a whole new black market for brands that refuse to give in to these idiotic rules for a market as small as Ireland. Not to mention it could well cost jobs as smaller brewers who rely on export trade can't afford to make 2 different sets of packaging and will either move abroad or shut entirely. And those comparing this to the smoking ban need to get their heads checked, that created no barriers to trade like this farcical idea will do.

dxhound2005 · 18-05-2023 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610928#Comment_120610928

I assume you are joking?

Barriers to trade was one of the arguments made by the opponents of the smoking ban.

Reducing exposure to secondhand smoke—Clean indoor air rules, including banning smoking in restaurants and bars, could face challenge as barriers to trade since these policies decrease cigarette consumption, and company profits.

Gusser09 · 18-05-2023 9:14am

Its a stupid nanny state idea. As ive said if its forced on the lad who likes to have a can at home it should be forced on a pint glass in the pub too. Thats only right.

Mcdonalds should be made put warnings on their packaging too.

These people pushing this are headbangers.

Mup hasnt made a difference. People are just buying it online or in the uk. But the **** pushing this agenda will tell you it has had a huge effect.

VinLieger · 18-05-2023 9:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611093#Comment_120611093

Your brexit gullibility makes so much sense now. The potential for selling less cigarettes is indeed a barrier to trade but how many cigarette companies stopped selling to Ireland entirely due to the ban? Demanding distinct and brand affecting packaging is a VERY different and far larger barrier to trade that could very well lead to brands stopping selling to us entirely and again could affect our own domestic brewers in very significant ways as requiring 2 different packaging production runs is not an easy or cheap thing for a small business, in fact bottling is one of the biggest hurdles for smaller brewers to overcome.

If it came in at an EU level I'd still think it was stupid but due to the size of the EU market it would not cause any barriers to trade, doing it by ourselves is fvcking stupid.

dxhound2005 · 18-05-2023 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610733#Comment_120610733

What do you mean "Seriously though" ?

Hotblack Desiato · 18-05-2023 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611232#Comment_120611232

I mean nonsense about crowns on pint glasses etc. aside

Gusser09 · 18-05-2023 10:48am

We are all in agreement though if this madness gets the go ahead it should be applied to pint glasses in pubs and also to Irish exports abroad of whiskey and baileys etc. Let's be a shining light for the dangers of living your life and actually having some enjoyment now and then. Let's go after McDonalds and Burger King next. Coca Cola soon enough then. Let's chase all of these multi nationals out of the country and be done with it. How dare they endanger us in such a way.

Pubs should be made put up signs all over the place with contact details for AA. They should be made tell people when they buy a pint about the dangers. Also some posters in pubs with a damaged liver would be a good idea too.

McDonalds should be made put pictures of really fat people in their units too. Fatty Livers and diabetics with missing limbs should be up there too.

There is a clear anti alcohol agenda here from AAI and their supporters. Make no mistake about it. They want a total ban on alcohol being sold in the supermarket. They want to price it our of the average persons reach. They want to make it as miserable as possible to enjoy a drink at home. That's where this is going. Can we all see that now?

ArmaniJeanss · 18-05-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611467#Comment_120611467

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make in the first paragraph. But it's nonsense. Clearly when we (Ireland, or any company within) export a product, then the only labelling/packaging requirement we must adhere to is a) what is required by the law of the country we are exporting to and b) what does the importer want.

So no, we aren't going to insist on a Irish cancer label on alcohol that we export. We can't. That's not the way exporting operates. Labelling/packaging is an expensive pain and a minefield for everyone who operates in the area. With different countries requiring primacy of local language for their own market, different warnings etc. Multiple production runs of labels and packaging is already a thing.

Gusser09 · 18-05-2023 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611588#Comment_120611588

We should refuse to export then. Hypocrisy. But yes I get your point. That's the excuse that will be sued by AAI to force their agendas and beliefs on ordinary Irish citizens but nobody else.

You're a backer of this agenda then I take it?

ArmaniJeanss · 18-05-2023 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611623#Comment_120611623

Utterly and completely opposed to AAI/MUP it if you check through my posts in this thread (though I realise the search engine is beyond borked, so to an extent you have to take my word for it). Also opposed to packaging/labels changes - it will cause me minor hassle in my work which can include organising multiple label runs to different warehouse printers (why won't printers fcking work, arrgggghhhh).

But I do try to be realistic about it i.e., when someone says 'French vineries will take a case to Europe over MUP, easy victory' or 'EU won't allow these labels' they get 20 thanks. And I then point out some of the flaws and problems in this logic which pleases no-one.

bluedex · 18-05-2023 11:57am

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

A point on the market price argument: "The market price is determined by the forces of supply and demand. The price at which quantity supplied equals quantity demanded is the market price." This is an economic definition. MUP is not market price by definition, it is pricing in a higher demand than actually exists. Not that it makes any difference, it's arguing over nothing really.

A general question: how has alcohol prohibition worked out, historically?

Gusser09 · 18-05-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611684#Comment_120611684

Ok I apologies mate.

But there must be a good reason why Eu companies are taking a case to Europe then? They must be afraid of something.

dxhound2005 · 18-05-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611151#Comment_120611151

Not long before you posted this, saying that the smoking ban is a barrier to trade, you posted that it was not a barrier to trade. Those are your words below. The whole thing bristles with inconsistencies.

And those comparing this to the smoking ban need to get their heads checked, that created no barriers to trade like this farcical idea will do.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-05-2023 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611865#Comment_120611865

No prob, no offence taken.

Not sure which specific case you mean - possibly the Italian wine growers who were up in arms about this a few months ago? Anger brews in Italy over Ireland’s plans for alcohol health warnings | Italy | The Guardian

At the end of day it's not good for the Italian wine industry, and their bigger fear (in the last paragraph) is that gradually other countries would join in wanting similar labelling. So protesting and complaining about it, taking a case etc - that's pretty much what lobby groups have to do if they want to keep the subs coming in, even if they have no realistic expectation of winning.

18-05-2023 1:05pm

IMO a percentage of the tax on alcohol should be ring-fenced for health, maybe half for mental health to treat addiction and half for general hospitals which have to treat the outfall of alcoholic related disease. Irish people are in serious denial about how much alcohol contributes to appearances at emergency departments as well as very serious chronic & progressive illness. Likewise a portion of the tax from cigarettes should be ring-fenced for the health services. I say this as someone who is not a teetotaller and as an ex smoker.

ednwireland · 18-05-2023 1:22pm

The latest from AAI

https://twitter.com/AlcoholIreland/status/1659115400397832192?t=rOg4kIQfvfv_JbgbCN7coQ&s=19

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-05-2023 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611684#Comment_120611684

And I then point out some of the flaws and problems in this logic which pleases no-one.

It's this threads equivalent of being accused of "working for Ryanair" or "working for RTE".

Leroy42 · 18-05-2023 2:04pm

That is pretty blatant advertising and is sure to have an impact on young children.

They are clearly using the 0% as a way to overcome the much more restrictive advertising laws for alcoholic products. There is no way they would be allowed to do that for their alcoholic products, but the presentation packaging etc are all aligned to give the same overall effect.

Keeping the Heineken name (in this instance) front and centre.

Clearly, the producers cannot be trusted to act responsibly and as such they need to have restrictions placed on them.

Gusser09 · 18-05-2023 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612093#Comment_120612093

The replies are quite telling. People aren't happy about this at all. It's what's next is the issue. AAI have a clear agenda here as I've said. They are looking to make Alcohol something that is beyond the reach of most people. They don't want it to have a presence in supermarkets and the local off license will be a thing of the past. You will only be able to buy it in state run shops.

Just crazy stuff. The low lives running that organisation have obviously had a negative personal experience with alcohol and now they want us all to suffer.

Why aren't they taking on the pubs with the same aggression? Why aren't they insisting that pint glasses carry the same warnings. Why aren't they pushing for a removal of all advertising outside pubs such as lighting etc?

Can anyone see any positives in what they are trying to do? Compared to other EU countries where alcohol is for sale for a lot less are there significantly more alcohol related issues? Spain and Italy for example and Germany.

Fr Tod Umptious · 18-05-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612367#Comment_120612367

are there significantly more alcohol related issues? Spain and Italy for example and Germany.

I don't know if there are significantly more but countries with cheaper alcohol are not immune to having alcohol related problems in their society.

I've posted links to research on this thread about it before.

While we in Ireland tend to die of alcohol related accidents more, the Europeans tend to die of alcohol related disease more.

Our binge drinking results in people dying in car crashes, misadventure, assault etc

Our European friends sipping wine and spirits at all times of the day everyday results in them developing long term alcohol related illness.

VinLieger · 18-05-2023 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611959#Comment_120611959

Indeed I was wrong and I have corrected myself, you are still yet to do so regarding your ridiculous brexit pint glass post.

Also I can be a pedant too so until you do admit you were wrong and insanely gullible for falling for such brexit nonsense I'll bring it up as a reply to every post you make on this thread because someone who does believe that nonsense should be discredited by using it as much as possible. Balls in your court....