Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417208#Comment_118417208

I don't really remember people talking about a "revolution" in relation to the smoking ban? I imagine they would have been laughed at.It had decent support at the time as it made sense on some levels.People are not dumb,they will accept (sometimes grudgingly) new taxes,regulations etc if we can see the greater good.

I'd like to see something done about the alcohol problem in this country (although it seems to be working itself out somewhat over the last generation or so,probably down to more freely available information and education)

This MUP is just a shambles and as many have mentioned on here and we've seen before over decades,it's the small things that break the camels back......Anyone remember the children's shoes tax in the 80s?

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417126#Comment_118417126

Yea why is there any comparison there to smoking. If I'm drinking next to someone I'm not force feeding them what I'm drinking down their throats.

I'd say by 2030 it will be 1930s prohibition America here the way it's going.

jmBuildExt

As mentioned above by numerous people, this is mostly to do with leveling the playing field for pubs vs supermarket multiples.

For whatever reason they couldn't do it under the banning below cost selling approach - so this is the result. As mentioned previously it was in fine gael's manifesto (https://issuu.com/exsite/docs/fine_gael_manifesto) see page 26 - why is it put out as a health measure today?

If this had anything to do with health, it would be done via excise increases. The most annoying thing is that it is being pushed as a health policy, rather than being honest and saying it is to help the pub industry vs the supermarkets.

Another bit of hoodwinkery .... when this legislation was being debated and presented to the public, the price increases that were being quoted were in reference to "a can of beer". They did their best to conceal the fact that the "can of beer" referred to a 470ml can of beer. Which, ok they do exist, but to most people a can of beer is 500ml.

Varadkar has done this in other areas too.... in reference to vulture funds (before anything was done to curtail them) he always referenced percentage of transactions they were involved in - which was miniscule. Instead of referencing the number of units being sold.

I would simply prefer that they were honest about it. Trying to pull the wool over the average joe public's eyes is the stuff that really boils my piss!

ps. I mention Varadkar... in case I sound like sf or ff troll.... if anything I'm more likely to vote FG...No affiliation to any party and I'd never vote for SF or FF.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417564#Comment_118417564

There is no equivalence between MUP and the smoking ban.

The smoking ban was to prevent people affecting the health of others with second hand smoke.

MUP is making people who drink moderately pay more because others don't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417201#Comment_118417201

Im not pro MUP

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417587#Comment_118417587

Nope. The supermarkets were using alcohol as a phenomenal loss leader to get customers in.

I can assure you that they made up for the losses by hiking prices elsewhere in the store.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417308#Comment_118417308

Education is exactly what I said earlier when I said "increased awareness" and I think it matters way more than price

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415077#Comment_118415077

Try reading the entire post.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415154#Comment_118415154

As above, read the entire post. TikTok generation with a 3 second attention span are very tiresome.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417678#Comment_118417678

Yeah I missed that,apologies.

I dont really know what tictok is and I'm 43.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415333#Comment_118415333

Don’t buy pills off the Garda, they’re cheaper elsewhere

Car99

The Irish government are lazy, we have a problem ! Solution is to charge the plebs more but dont ringfence the extra exchequer receipts . Lazy .

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417466#Comment_118417466

It won't. What's more is you know it won't.

Those same people you are talking about will switch up their cans for spirits.

Its not remotely targeted, its actually idiotic and should have been laughed off the stage with an ounce of real scrutiny which it didnt get.

Constant misrepresenting the facts and playing the health card. Hilariously thoroughly faulty policy.

And who said it was a panacea name one poster. Bad policy is bad policy. It's actually ruins the road to good policy frankly.

SteM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417466#Comment_118417466

I'm not sure it reduces the buying power of problem drinkers to be honest. My dad had a bad drink problem before he passed and when he had less money in his pocket he would put less petrol in the car or less food on the table rather than go without drink. Usually found money for the drink.

I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417643#Comment_118417643

That could be good news for people who don’t buy alcohol in those supermarkets. Something else can be the it loss leader now or they may reduce prices on the other goods slightly.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417643#Comment_118417643

There is no below cost selling of alcohol in this country that's absolute horseshit. More VFI horseshit when they say below cost they mean below the cost their own distributors charged them.

There is no below cost selling in this country. Its not a loss leader. There is not below cost selling in this country.

Must I repeat this.

jmBuildExt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417643#Comment_118417643

Nope to what?

I know supermarkets sell alcohol as a loss leader to get people in the door. And that's fair enough - I fully accept that as an argument in favour of MUP. The traditional pub industry cant compete with that because their offering obviously isn't as broad to recoup the costs elsewhere - I get it.

But don't push it (MUP) as a health policy - just argue it for what it is. The government are giving a leg back up to the pub industry. It's not a debate about health.

Of course another thing that the other side forget - The supermarkets don't always sell at a loss or super-reduced rate. There are times in the year when they do have to pay the MUP rates anyway for (for want of a better word) mainstream beers like budweiser, heineken, guinness, bulmers etc as well as the mainstream spirits.

But to nail my colours to the mast I am against MUP.

Its something people had (i.e. the discounts we mention above) , that is being taken away in a back handed manner in the guise of a health policy.

The ones who will bare the brunt are the people at the lower income scale who are buying the genuine budget end products that will be permanently affected.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417712#Comment_118417712

Where are the extra exchequer receipts?

Duty rates have not changed.

The decrease in purchasing will counteract any small additional vat.

As for laziness - Scotland, Wales, parts of Canada, northern Australia, Belarus, Russia, Moldova and others.

New Zealand will be coming to the table soon and the success in other countries means more and more countries are looking to introduce it to stop alcohol being used as an enticement to consumers

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417788#Comment_118417788

What success. Be specific.

And il ask you again. What below cost loss leading selling. Who? What price where they buying and selling for making it below cost.

There has never been an example of this given since the debate started.

fritzelly

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Surprised, or rather not, that RTE had zip about it on the 6.01 news on the day it starts, even the homepage has nothing about it

I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

Did Joe Duffy cover it either I wonder?

fritzelly

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417847#Comment_118417847

Pfft, there were teachers to talk to

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417841#Comment_118417841

They covered it yesterday.

Quite a good expose of the price differential between ROI and NI.

I'd love to have Paddy O'Gorman reporting from the front line about MUP.

Richard Hillman

You do wonder what is next for Alcohol Action Ireland. Their whole mantra was to have to price of drink spiked up and to go after alcohol advertising. They've pretty much gotten everything they have wanted. How are they going to justify their near 300k of funding from the HSE/Lottery for their 3 employees?

All they ever do is a report every 6 months lurking around shops to find the cheapest available alcohol, and realease their template "Alcohol Action Ireland welcomes the governments decision to......" statement.

So what's the next thing they are going to go after?

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417847#Comment_118417847

The Duffster was relaxing in his study with his feet up sipping his Hennessy timeless cognac today in the style to which he has become accustomed to in the montrose soviet ...this stuff would have been grist to the mill in the old days before liveline became the Joe Duffy show, A man of da peeple when it suits innit

questionmark?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417769#Comment_118417769

You sure about that? For example I see Tesco were selling wine for 3:33 a bottle before Xmas. Surely after taxes there can't be any profit in it!

Anyway, I say that as someone who thinks MUP is a load of bollix!

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417928#Comment_118417928

3.33 that wouldn't be below cost for various bottles tesco can source. At all.

I've a real feeling people don't understand how much alcohol costs to product in large bulk en masse.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417956#Comment_118417956

You appear to be forgetting that duty is a cost and that VAT exists.

3.33 is ~2.70 ex VAT.

The duty on a bottle of wine is ~3.20

A bottle being sold for 3.33 is being sold below cost on the excise element alone let alone the actual product cost

Some spirits were also being sold below cost on excise alone; and many own brand spirits were likely to be at cost.

However, this could have been fixed by reinstating the below cost selling ban we had that was removed by Michael Martin!

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417928#Comment_118417928

I saw that as a once-off to get rid of stock which was going to be very hard/impossible to shift post-MUP. If the Tesco labelled stuff is going to be the same price as a bottle with a nice French/Italian house on it then it doesn't have much future.

So I don't think it counts as below-cost selling in it's traditional sense of loss leader to increase footfall. It was more akin to putting slow selling stock or 'nearing expired date' stuff into a bargain bin.

blackbox

I used to work in a drinks factory where effectively there was unlimited access to free alcohol (but obviously against company rules). I only recall one obvious alcoholic - I'd be confident that there were no more than the national average.

Also, in many countries alcohol is way way cheaper than here, but it doesn't turn them into a nation of alcoholics.

Price is not the problem nor the solution.