Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

cian68

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I can't believe how many people are against this I hope the poll doesn't reflect what the public actually think

How the poll is phrased, that drinking problems are a myth, is silly. But I completely disagree with punishing poor people because addiction exists.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

A flagon is not going to go up enough to stop teenagers field drinking. But open to correction with evidence where it has been a success, and without any other negative consequences (e.g. other drugs).

The place where it is said to have worked is Scotland. However alcohol there is considerably cheaper than here.

For example, 700ml of Bells in Tesco here is 22 euro. In tesco UK, it is £13.75 which based on today exchange rate is 15.46 euro. A difference of 6.54.

Macy0161

Still too early to tell in Scotland, and as others have stated, there are indications of a switch to other drugs.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

Still too early to tell in Scotland, and as others have stated, there are indications of a switch to other drugs.

Which of course is very difficult to quantify.

ShamNNspace

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The number of young people drinking in this country is declining despite the alleged dangerously cheap prices. So why the need for this intervention?

That's a rhetorical question. The need for this intervention is to do the vintners a favour under the guise of public health.

Most of em get their kicks from other substances these days from what I see around me

Antares35

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's a rhetorical question. The need for this intervention is to do the vintners a favour under the guise of public health.

Indeed. We won't be supporting pubs again when they re-open and as I mentioned, I'd rather take the car to France and stock up on red and bubbly. Even if I break even or pay slightly more, I don't care. I'd rather do that than give them an extra cent.

We must be one of the few countries in the world where our right and autonomy to make bad decisions on our own behalf are constantly eroded.

ShamNNspace

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Most of em get their kicks from other substances these days from what I see around me

The amount of usage of weed among the 30-50s age groups is being completely ignored. It's deemed by many to be the affordable alternative to booze.

Macy0161

Deleted User wrote: »

Which of course is very difficult to quantify.

As will the impact on problem drinking. You can measure sales, but whether that really impacts on problem drinking is entirely different and won't be known for decades if the logic is to stop young people starting/ overconsuming.

Parabellum9

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I can't believe how many people are against this I hope the poll doesn't reflect what the public actually think

This has been tried in other countries and has worked, I first heard of it on a course about alcoholism and addictions, it will save lives

It won't save lives, it won't deter anyone from drinking and it won't do a single thing but make alcohol more expensive than it already is. It's a ****ing joke and nothing else.

The alco/wife beaters who want booze will still buy it - if that means their family suffer further financial hardship month to month or can't afford nappies/baby food etc then so be it. You can blame this idiocy when it happens, and it will.

This is nothing but an equalizer for the pubs and cannot be seen as anything else - it's a cheap shot because after years and years of macing their customers with 6 & 7 euro pints, people copped on and said **** that - why would I pay 7e a pint when I can drink 4 cans for that price?

Mimon

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The only option will be to vote for someone who wasn't in Gov at the time of this nonsense.

All the parties support this.

ShamNNspace

When this is all over it would be good to see a recalibration of the pub scene where the big suppliers like diagio would have their grip loosened.. There's a virtual price cartel in place in most provincial towns who stock their products from what I can see.. I've seen it here where one new guy who set his drink at lower prices was ostracised and the rumour put out that he was selling bad drink, seconds, out of dates etc he lasted 6 months

Parabellum9

Parabellum9 wrote: »

It won't save lives, it won't deter anyone from drinking and it won't do a single thing but make alcohol more expensive than it already is. It's a ****ing joke and nothing else.

The alco/wife beaters who want booze will still buy it - if that means their family suffer further financial hardship month to month or can't afford nappies/baby food etc then so be it. You can blame this idiocy when it happens, and it will.

This is nothing but an equalizer for the pubs and cannot be seen as anything else - it's a cheap shot because after years and years of macing their customers with 6 & 7 euro pints, people copped on and said **** that - why would I pay 7e a pint when I can drink 4 cans for that price?

And I think a lot of people during lockdown have realised they don't need the pub. As a Guinness drinker myself, I do miss a pub pulled pint, think about it like this. I was in a habit of going for 2 pints on a thursday night on my way home from work. 2 pints = 10 euro, thats 40 euros a month, since March Ive saved 400 euros by not going to the pub. Thats just for my weekly habit. That doesn't include nights out, cinema trips etc.

Zaph

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I can't believe how many people are against this I hope the poll doesn't reflect what the public actually think

This has been tried in other countries and has worked, I first heard of it on a course about alcoholism and addictions, it will save lives

The poll is poorly worded, but what the majority of people actually think is that we're already paying some of the highest prices in Europe for alcohol, so a) why do those in favour of MUP think that it will deter those with drink problems from buying it anyway?; and b) why must the vast majority who drink responsibly and don't have an issue with alcohol be effectively punished by a bunch of do-gooders telling us what's good for us?

Suckit

These are a few years after it was introduced, and you can go back further, they are just more recent. Of course, nobody can say for sure that they are related.
(Scotland)
Minimum alcohol pricing could spark rise in drug abuse January 17 2018
Warning that minimum alcohol pricing is driving drinkers to drugs May 5 2019
Drug-related deaths in Scotland reach highest level since current records began July 16 2019
Scotland records huge rise in drug-related deaths July 16 2019
Drug deaths in Scotland hit worst level on record - rising by 6% in a year December 15 2020
Scotland's drug deaths rise to new record December 15 2020

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

As will the impact on problem drinking. You can measure sales, but whether that really impacts on problem drinking is entirely different and won't be known for decades if the logic is to stop young people starting/ overconsuming.

I've often wondered why a half bottle of whiskey is significantly expensive compared to a 700ml bottle. In tesco today 700ml of Jameson is 27, a half bottle, 350ml is 15. So 2 half bottles is 10% more expensive than the standard bottle. If they were genuinly interested in reducing problem drinking, should they not encourage the buying of the half bottle?

odyssey06

Deleted User wrote: »

I've often wondered why a half bottle of whiskey is significantly expensive compared to a 700ml bottle. In tesco today 700ml of Jameson is 27, a half bottle, 350ml is 15. So 2 half bottles is 10% more expensive than the standard bottle. If they were genuinly interested in reducing problem drinking, should they not encourage the buying of the half bottle?

You used to be able to get two miniature bottles of wine in Tesco for €5, or 2 half bottles for €10.
That deal is gone now.
You may as well buy a full size discounted bottle.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

You used to be able to get two miniature bottles of wine in Tesco for €5, or 2 half bottles for €10.
That deal is gone now.
You may as well buy a full size discounted bottle.

Oh I will be.

BraveDonut

BraveDonut wrote: »

How is it going to backfire?

I'll refer you to Suckit's very good post:

Suckit wrote: »

These are a few years after it was introduced, and you can go back further, they are just more recent. Of course, nobody can say for sure that they are related.
(Scotland)
Minimum alcohol pricing could spark rise in drug abuse January 17 2018
Warning that minimum alcohol pricing is driving drinkers to drugs May 5 2019
Drug-related deaths in Scotland reach highest level since current records began July 16 2019
Scotland records huge rise in drug-related deaths July 16 2019
Drug deaths in Scotland hit worst level on record - rising by 6% in a year December 15 2020
Scotland's drug deaths rise to new record December 15 2020

Besides, have we not already had deaths in Ireland from people drinking their own homemade stuff? Pretty sure I recall hearing such.

Aongus Von Bismarck

It's a welcome idea tbh. When I go back to Ireland I'm always struck by how cheap alcohol has remained when benchmarked against other goods. 6 cans/bottles of beer in a supermarket is the same price as it was when I started university 20 years ago. A bottle of wine for €7, a bottle of cheap vodka for €12. Almost the exact same price as Germany to be honest.

Amirani

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There is a fundamental law of economics called the downward sloping demand curve, which states that as the price of a product rises, the quantity demanded of that product falls.
If something is more expensive then people will buy less of it.

Alcohol (like many addictive goods) for many people has a very inelastic demand curve. For dependents it's arguably perfectly inelastic, so it doesn't follow necessarily that price rise will cause reduced consumption, it may just lead to a greater percentage of income spent on it.

People without an alcohol issue likely will have a less inelastic and more "normal" demand curve, and will probably buy less. This begs the question though; are we aiming this measure at problem drinkers or non-problem drinkers?

Suckit

odyssey06 wrote: »

You used to be able to get two miniature bottles of wine in Tesco for €5, or 2 half bottles for €10.
That deal is gone now.
You may as well buy a full size discounted bottle.

The half bottle of Chilean in Aldi is much nicer

Geuze

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

It's a welcome idea tbh. When I go back to Ireland I'm always struck by how cheap alcohol has remained when benchmarked against other goods. 6 cans/bottles of beer in a supermarket is the same price as it was when I started university 20 years ago. A bottle of wine for €7, a bottle of cheap vodka for €12. Almost the exact same price as Germany to be honest.

While it is true that the price of many beers in supermarkets has fallen in real terms over the last 20 years, alcohol here is still much dearer than abroad.

70cl of vodka for 12? Are you sure?


Note that 50cl cans start at 29 cent in German supermarkets, well below the lowest prices here.

Thelonious Monk

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

It's a welcome idea tbh. When I go back to Ireland I'm always struck by how cheap alcohol has remained when benchmarked against other goods. 6 cans/bottles of beer in a supermarket is the same price as it was when I started university 20 years ago. A bottle of wine for €7, a bottle of cheap vodka for €12. Almost the exact same price as Germany to be honest.

Last time I was in Munich I was buying bottles of Augustiner for 80c, and that's a premium beer. They charge 3.50 for the same bottle in my local off licence, still ridiculous even though it's an import and exotic. Booze is far, far cheaper over there.

Zebra3

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

If alcohol is so dangerous and such a dreadful thing, why do our politicians line up to have their photo taken with the US president with a pint of stout?





Oh yeah, that'll be the hypocrisy. Did they do away with taxpayer funded discounted alcohol in their workplace bar?

odyssey06

Zebra3 wrote: »

If alcohol is so dangerous and such a dreadful thing, why do our politicians line up to have their photo taken with the US president with a pint of stout?
Oh yeah, that'll be the hypocrisy. Did they do away with taxpayer funded discounted alcohol in their workplace bar?

Alcohol drunk by politicians in a pub takes on magical properties.
Doesn't matter how much you drink, you don't have a problem and you can still drive home that night.

ShamNNspace

odyssey06 wrote: »

Alcohol drunk by politicians in a pub takes on magical properties.
Doesn't matter how much you drink, you don't have a problem and you can still drive home that night.

Even the wrong way down a motorway
if it takes ones fancy
not a bother, nor a care in the world
do you know who I am... innit

L1011

Based on a not that limited selection of a supermarket (Supervalu), a convenience store (Centra), physical off licences and an online one the ban on multi-buying has, as anyone could have expected, actually reduced the cost of buying single cans/bottles.

Hence making them more affordable for kids. Fantastic way for an idea backfire.

odyssey06

L1011 wrote: »

Based on a not that limited selection of a supermarket (Supervalu), a convenience store (Centra), physical off licences and an online one the ban on multi-buying has, as anyone could have expected, actually reduced the cost of buying single cans/bottles.
Hence making them more affordable for kids. Fantastic way for an idea backfire.

Economic reality doesn't matter to the kind of people who pushed for this.
They've already convinced themselves in the face of all available evidence that alcohol is cheap in Ireland and that that explains our problems with it.
All that matters is virtue signalling and inconveniencing people.

Zebra3

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

€276,807 in "grants" which I assume is all from the taxpayer (open to correction on that) for this bunch of extremists according to their 2019 accounts.

Seems like a few nice junkets as well at our expense.

No break down of how our money was spent on these junkets or what (if any) salaries are being paid.

dreamers75

All pub owned off licences still doing deals, Vintners are some lads in this country.