Ireland v Australia 26/11/16 5:30pm. RTE2 and Sky 2

Felix Jones is God

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Good point.

Best one he's made all night

irishbucsfan

Ah look the idea that POMs international career is over is complete bollocks. Whether or not he starts for us is certainly up in the air, I'd have him over Stander personally because I think he's better in almost every area. We'll find out in a couple of months.

Professor Moriarty

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah look the idea that POMs international career is over is complete bollocks. Whether or not he starts for us is certainly up in the air, I'd have him over Stander personally because I think he's better in almost every area. We'll find out in a couple of months.

Stander does make some eyecatching ball carries, though. An embarrassment of riches.

former total

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah look the idea that POMs international career is over is complete bollocks.

I think this started out as a gag by Venjur, poking fun at the masses of people who declared Kearney's career to be over when it clearly was not. Unfortunately, some posters missed the joke.

Whether or not he starts for us is certainly up in the air, I'd have him over Stander personally because I think he's better in almost every area. We'll find out in a couple of months.

I don't think POM has ever been the effective ball carrier that Stander has been this autumn, but is better in other areas.

former total

former total wrote: »

I don't think POM has ever been the effective ball carrier that Stander has been this autumn, but is better in other areas.

I noticed though by watching their faces that people listen to POM slightly more intently than they listen to Stander. A game can change on that listening intensity.

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

I noticed though by watching their faces that people listen to POM slightly more intently than they listen to Stander. A game can change on that listening intensity.

You should take a broader view of matches rather than focussing on peoples's faces. It's a bit weird to be honest, but it does explain your thoughts on rugby.

Felix Jones is God

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You should take a broader view of matches rather than focussing on peoples's faces. It's a bit weird to be honest, but it does explain your thoughts on rugby.

I kinda wish Heaslip paid more attention when POM was dishing out the speeches laden with pashun instead of concentrating on his coin tossing techniques

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

I kinda wish Heaslip paid more attention when POM was dishing out the speeches laden with pashun instead of concentrating on his coin tossing techniques

I wish POM paid more attention to Heaslip's flip flops and socks look before the match. It's clearly where Jamie's power lies.

Professor Moriarty

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

I kinda wish Heaslip paid more attention when POM was dishing out the speeches laden with pashun instead of concentrating on his coin tossing techniques

You're not implying that Heaslip is a tosser surely? Put in your gumshield quickly.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

I noticed though by watching their faces that people listen to POM slightly more intently than they listen to Stander. A game can change on that listening intensity.

They have to concentrate more to decipher POM's Cork accent. Stander's South Limericka brogue just laps over them like a warm wave.

molloyjh

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Anyhoo, never saw a group of players huddled around Kearney listening intently. That's not to say he doesn't have opinion on the pitch but it's never been obvious to me that he leads compared to other players

There's more ways to lead teams than being a talker in a huddle. Payne doesn't do much talking in those scenarios either, but he's still known to be a leader. We've heard a lot about how Kearney is a leader within the squad over the years, most notably about that infamous meeting in December 2008 when he brought the province vs country thing to the fore. He is a leader in the squad regardless of how obvious that is to fans.

molloyjh

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I noticed though by watching their faces that people listen to POM slightly more intently than they listen to Stander. A game can change on that listening intensity.

You should take a broader view of matches rather than focussing on peoples's faces. It's a bit weird to be honest, but it does explain your thoughts on rugby.

I think you need to learn what posts are serious and what ones are tongue in cheek.

Professor Moriarty

molloyjh wrote: »

I think you need to learn what posts are serious and what ones are tongue in cheek.

Thanks. To be fair, my reply was in the same vein.

phog

leakyboots wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The rolleyes police must be off duty tonight. :pac:

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

The rolleyes police must be off duty tonight. :pac:

:rolleyes:

shuffol

There'll be some horses for courses selections. We looked to keep ball in hand a lot over the AI's which would suit Stander and VDF with their ball carrying and workrate respectively. If we opt for a tactical kicking game then POM becomes a good option as he's possibly the most effective forward in the world at competing at the front of an opposition line out. However when VDF tidies up his breakdown work in defence he'll be hard to overlook for anyone. Great situation to be in. If Leavy starts a few European games his stock will rise considerably too.

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

I don't think POM has ever been the effective ball carrier that Stander has been this autumn, but is better in other areas.

Maybe worth having a rewatch of the World Cup as a reminder of just how good POM's ball carrying is. I also feel Stander's is fairly overrated.

errlloyd

shuffol wrote: »

There'll be some horses for courses selections. We looked to keep ball in hand a lot over the AI's which would suit Stander and VDF with their ball carrying and workrate respectively. If we opt for a tactical kicking game then POM becomes a good option as he's possibly the most effective forward in the world at competing at the front of an opposition line out. However when VDF tidies up his breakdown work in defence he'll be hard to overlook for anyone. Great situation to be in. If Leavy starts a few European games his stock will rise considerably too.

Actually I hadn't really realized that the change in backrow preferences might be down to a shift in the game plan. Makes a little sense.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe worth having a rewatch of the World Cup as a reminder of just how good POM's ball carrying is. I also feel Stander's is fairly overrated.

I don't think he's overrated (well, he's an excellent player but not the messiah some do have him tagged as) but I would have POM ahead of him. He is an all round better player, without doubt for me. However, a single barrelling run through a defender makes more of an impact with the crowd than making 20 rucks or preventing clean line out ball for the opposition.

I wouldn't have POM in the team on the basis of leadership. Although it's a nice bonus, we don't really need it. We've a pack with hundreds of test caps. I'd have him in there as he's a different type of player to the others. His presence fills a certain role that others don't. He's a niggly, combative player with a great engine, superb defender and has a better reading of the game.

I reckon VDF will become a similar style over time but he's more of a complete workhorse at openside for the time being.

Heaslip, SOB and POM for me but I'd be surprised if we'd many games where POM and SOB were both fit. The 20 jersey is a real battle. Stander for the time being for impact carrying and an ability to cover across the back row but it's very hard on VDF given his performances to date and the fact that there is flexibility already in those that are on the pitch.

Interested Observer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe worth having a rewatch of the World Cup as a reminder of just how good POM's ball carrying is. I also feel Stander's is fairly overrated.

He played against Canada and Italy, two really poor sides. Imo his ball carrying is definitely not one of his strengths.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

He played against Canada and Italy, two really poor sides. Imo his ball carrying is definitely not one of his strengths.

Those aren't the only games he played though...

Interested Observer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Those aren't the only games he played though...

Yes he played 50 odd minutes against France and his carrying was decent. Certainly no better than we've seen from Stander in the Irish shirt.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yes he played 50 odd minutes against France and his carrying was decent. Certainly no better than we've seen from Stander in the Irish shirt.

I would rate it higher than decent. Stander is a very different type of carrier but I don't necessarily think it's as valuable than POM's carrying was to us in that game. Stander is too north/south for me which is valuable but also something we get elsewhere, and from better carriers, in the pack.

Interested Observer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would rate it higher than decent. Stander is a very different type of carrier but I don't necessarily think it's as valuable than POM's carrying was to us in that game. Stander is too north/south for me which is valuable but also something we get elsewhere, and from better carriers, in the pack.

Jaysus I really don't agree at all. But sure it's one of those good problems, I don't really care who gets picked for the 6N, Schmidt knows his onions.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Jaysus I really don't agree at all. But sure it's one of those good problems, I don't really care who gets picked for the 6N, Schmidt knows his onions.

You're completely free to disagree. But you haven't at all said what you think makes one better or worse than the other...

EDIT: For what it's worth I think they're about as valuable as each other when it comes to carrying but POM adds more in other areas, specifically the defensive breakdown where he's been a big part of enabling our half backs to get so much change out of our kicking game.

Interested Observer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're completely free to disagree. But you haven't at all said what you think makes one better or worse than the other...

Neither have you!

It's simple enough though, I think Stander is better at making progress towards the other teams' line when he has the ball. He's stronger when he takes contact. He carries more often.

Edit, I've just seen your edit, I agree on the rucks. He's also as good a lineout option as you'll get in a back row. So he certainly has other strengths over Stander but I don't think carrying is one of them at all.

But I'll reiterate I don't think this is a huge issue, we're stacked in the back row. Whoever plays will do just fine.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Neither have you!

It's simple enough though, I think Stander is better at making progress towards the other teams' line when he has the ball. He's stronger when he takes contact. He carries more often.

Are you just not reading my posts or...

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would rate it higher than decent. Stander is a very different type of carrier but I don't necessarily think it's as valuable than POM's carrying was to us in that game. Stander is too north/south for me which is valuable but also something we get elsewhere, and from better carriers, in the pack.

We have lots of strong carriers across our pack who can take it on the fringes and run straight at the opposition. If we didn't then it'd be more valuable.