Ireland v Australia 26/11/16 5:30pm. RTE2 and Sky 2

Moflojo

molloyjh wrote: »

I asked the same question. Height apparently. You have to either be driven into the ground or dropped from a height. Furling was dropped, but not from a height.

I guess that explains the Garces/Owens conversation about "dynamism". I don't think we should be relying on referees to be competent physicists in order to get the decisions right though.

Moflojo

Moflojo wrote: »

I guess that explains the Garces/Owens conversation about "dynamism". I don't think we should be relying on referees to be competent physicists in order to get the decisions right though.

Yeah, but surely common sense is enough.....and that's what prevailed

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I would have thought Simmons' arm around Furlong's other leg was the only thing that stopped Mumm lifting him higher before dropping him. I suppose that doesn't matter when looking at the actual incident though. Same could be said for Simmons' pulling Furlong's head, it stopped him landing right on it.

Kal El

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. And as a nation, Irish people should be slow to cast stones!

Oh 100% but our sports stars dont seem to revel in it as much as the Aussies. I wasnt casting stones, for all I know the Kearneys could be tearing up Coppers every weekend :pac:
The thing with the Aussies was its always in the press

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Kal El wrote: »

Oh 100% but our sports stars dont seem to revel in it as much as the Aussies. I wasnt casting stones, for all I know the Kearneys could be tearing up Coppers every weekend :pac:
The thing with the Aussies was its always in the press

There was a League guy in Australia not that long ago photographed/filmed pissing into his own mouth while on a night out. Australia has a strange sport culture anyway even leaving aside the alcohol issues.

ScissorPaperRock

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

I know what it stands for, but still irrelevant to my point, don't know what's so difficult to understand

???

What are you finding difficult to understand about the fact that people are simply referring to the component of your statement that relates to Farrell's hand symbols?

If it wasn't relevant, then why mention it? You made it relevant to the overall discussion by highlighting it...


There's some degree of obtuseness on this forum these days...

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

There was a League guy in Australia not that long ago photographed/filmed pissing into his own mouth while on a night out. Australia has a strange sport culture anyway even leaving aside the alcohol issues.

Between awec and his fethishes and now this, is nowhere safe?

Felix Jones is God

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

???

What are you finding difficult to understand about the fact that people are simply referring to the component of your statement that relates to Farrell's hand symbols?

If it wasn't relevant, then why mention it? You made it relevant to the overall discussion by highlighting it...


There's some degree of obtuseness on this forum these days...

OK, for those who are a little slow to follow....I made the point that sexton prob wouldn't start the first test as I believed someone else would. I made reference to his hand gesture so people would know.who i was referring to.(funnily enough nobody took me up on the point about his cumface and try to explain that to me).then someone decided to tell me what it meant....im forever greatful as there is no way I would ever have known that fact without his valuable input
Now, all of ye happy?

Could you elaborate on the cumface part

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I would have thought Simmons' arm around Furlong's other leg was the only thing that stopped Mumm lifting him higher before dropping him. I suppose that doesn't matter when looking at the actual incident though. Same could be said for Simmons' pulling Furlong's head, it stopped him landing right on it.

The other leg being held just stopped him being rolled over. It actually made it worse than it would have been.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

https://twitter.com/eatsleeprugby/status/803696545606594560

Kal El

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

OK, for those who are a little slow to follow....I made the point that sexton prob wouldn't start the first test as I believed someone else would. I made reference to his hand gesture so people would know.who i was referring to.(funnily enough nobody took me up on the point about his cumface and try to explain that to me).then someone decided to tell me what it meant....im forever greatful as there is no way I would ever have known that fact without his valuable input
Now, all of ye happy?

Ive noticed people read a lot into things around here :pac:

leakyboots

Murray's Ruck Post-Mortem, good focus on Pocock here

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-david-pocock-breakdown-3108736-Nov2016/?utm_source=shortlink

Stats highlight phenomenal workrate of VdF and Furlong, Ringrose too. Heaslip a bit quieter by usual standards I'd imagine given Earls got more involved in that aspect of the play. Healy and POM (in spite of Venjur's protestations to the contrary) both made big contributions in their time on the pitch.

CMOTDibbler

leakyboots wrote: »

Murray's Ruck Post-Mortem, good focus on Pocock here

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-david-pocock-breakdown-3108736-Nov2016/?utm_source=shortlink

Stats highlight phenomenal workrate of VdF and Furlong, Ringrose too. Heaslip a bit quieter by usual standards I'd imagine given Earls got more involved in that aspect of the play. Healy and POM (in spite of Venjur's protestations to the contrary) both made big contributions in their time on the pitch.

I noticed Heaslip was a lot quieter than usual. Whatever about his overall fitness, he put in a huge shift against NZ and was probably knackered from it. Very unusual (also) to see him subbed, so I suspect that he just had no gas left in the tank.

Buer

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I noticed Heaslip was a lot quieter than usual. Whatever about his overall fitness, he put in a huge shift against NZ and was probably knackered from it. Very unusual (also) to see him subbed, so I suspect that he just had no gas left in the tank.

He gave away a penalty for not rolling a minute or two before being taken off. I suspect that was the nail in the coffin. Very unusual for him not to complete a match but definitely the right call especially given the quality of player on the bench.

leakyboots

leakyboots wrote: »

Murray's Ruck Post-Mortem, good focus on Pocock here

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-david-pocock-breakdown-3108736-Nov2016/?utm_source=shortlink

Stats highlight phenomenal workrate of VdF and Furlong, Ringrose too. Heaslip a bit quieter by usual standards I'd imagine given Earls got more involved in that aspect of the play. Healy and POM (in spite of Venjur's protestations to the contrary) both made big contributions in their time on the pitch.

He made 7 contributions at the breakdown in the 20 minutes he was on.

VDF made 46 despite playing the entire game. That converts to 11.5 per 20 minute period. If anything it makes my point, along with POM's two missed tackles.

Thanks for highlighting actually.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I know Heaslip is super human but it has to be a good thing that we have the options there so he can come off. He'll be 33 in a few weeks time, 12-20 minutes less per match can only be beneficial to him. Tired bodies get hurt easier.... or something to that effect.

leakyboots

Deleted User wrote: »

He made 7 contributions at the breakdown in the 20 minutes he was on.

VDF made 46 despite playing the entire game. That converts to 11.5 per 20 minute period. If anything it makes my point, along with POM's two missed tackles.

Thanks for highlighting actually.

:rolleyes:

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

He made 7 contributions at the breakdown in the 20 minutes he was on.

VDF made 46 despite playing the entire game. That converts to 11.5 per 20 minute period. If anything it makes my point, along with POM's two missed tackles.

Thanks for highlighting actually.

Is it not the case that you'd expect your openside to hit more breakdowns than your blindside flanker?

In any case it's a moot point, I'm in the camp that thought he played superbly when he came on but I don't think we're going to change your mind at this stage!

aloooof

aloooof wrote: »

Is it not the case that you'd expect your openside to hit more breakdowns than your blindside flanker?

In any case it's a moot point, I'm in the camp that thought he played superbly when he came on but I don't think we're going to change your mind at this stage!

I don't think he played badly and I'm not suggesting he did. My point is that barring injury he isn't in the 23. My further point is that I don't particularly view him as an impact player. I think he is the sort of guy that has an influence on a game over a period of time through work rate and being in the right place.

I'm yet to have someone explain what he has done that puts him ahead of:

CJ Stander
Sean O'Brien
Josh Van de Flier
Jamie Heaslip

I think there is a massive dual standard between what people think is good enough for the likes of Peter O'Mahony and what people would expect from Earls or Rob Kearney.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think he played badly and I'm not suggesting he did. My point is that barring injury he isn't in the 23. My further point is that I don't particularly view him as an impact player. I think he is the sort of guy that has an influence on a game over a period of time through work rate and being in the right place.

I'm yet to have someone explain what he has done that puts him ahead of:

CJ Stander
Sean O'Brien
Josh Van de Flier
Jamie Heaslip

I think there is a massive dual standard between what people think is good enough for the likes of Peter O'Mahony and what people would expect from Earls or Rob Kearney.

I did notice that we seemed to hit Stander a lot more in the lineout this November series than we had previously (could be wrong, but that was my impression) and this is an area that previously POM would've had the upper hand over CJ in, in terms of selection at 6, so I can see your argument.

Having said that, I don't know if we can say for certain yet that he is outside the 23 when everyone is fit, given he was only back from injury. Granted, so was SOB and he started, but I think each player and each scenario has to be handled on a case by case basis.

Long story short, we're stacked in the back row and that's no bad thing!

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think he played badly and I'm not suggesting he did. My point is that barring injury he isn't in the 23. My further point is that I don't particularly view him as an impact player. I think he is the sort of guy that has an influence on a game over a period of time through work rate and being in the right place.

I'm yet to have someone explain what he has done that puts him ahead of:

CJ Stander
Sean O'Brien
Josh Van de Flier
Jamie Heaslip

I think there is a massive dual standard between what people think is good enough for the likes of Peter O'Mahony and what people would expect from Earls or Rob Kearney.

Leaving aside the obvious comparison between an apple and oranges, O'Mahony is a leader in the mould of O'Connell. Apart from his work as a player, he brings nous and inspiration to the pack. When O'Mahony talks, people listen. Whatever the merits or otherwise of Kearney and Earls they are not leaders.

As an inspiring player when you're up against it, I would put him ahead of the other four above. Each of them have their own qualities, but he's a better pack leader. Whether that means he should therefore be picked over the others is obviously debatable.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Leaving aside the obvious comparison between an apple and oranges, O'Mahony is a leader in the mould of O'Connell. Apart from his work as a player, he brings nous and inspiration to the pack. When O'Mahony talks, people listen. Whatever the merits or otherwise of Kearney and Earls they are not leaders.

As an inspiring player when you're up against it, I would put him ahead of the other four above. Each of them have their own qualities, but he's a better pack leader. Whether that means he should therefore be picked over the others is obviously debatable.

We've heaps of leadership in the pack. Best, Heaslip, Toner, Stander to name but a few. This "captain incumbent" nonsense about O'Mahony is exactly the type of perception bias that I'm referring to.

Amusing that you say Kearney is not a leader. If you had any insight into Leinster and Ireland you would realise that the complete opposite is true.

Lake1989

Deleted User wrote: »

We've heaps of leadership in the pack. Best, Heaslip, Toner, Stander to name but a few. This "captain incumbent" nonsense about O'Mahony is exactly the type of perception bias that I'm referring to.

Amusing that you say Kearney is not a leader. If you had any insight into Leinster and Ireland you would realise that the complete opposite is true.

Jackson spoke very well about Heaslips leadership in the documentary about the SA tour, he had thrown the pass which was intercepted but Heaslip was just thinking about the processes to go and win the game, and Marmion spoke after the game last saturday about Heaslip speaking under the posts after Australia took the lead last saturday about what needed to be done to win the game.

Felix Jones is God

Don't think it matters really, I remember the same heads saying that Stander would be lucky to make the 23 as there were too many better players ahead of him...and yet ...here we are now and some of the self acclaimed experts are calling him undropable....there's none so queer as folk eh?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Lake1989 wrote: »

Jackson spoke very well about Heaslips leadership in the documentary about the SA tour, he had thrown the pass which was intercepted but Heaslip was just thinking about the processes to go and win the game, and Marmion spoke after the game last saturday about Heaslip speaking under the posts after Australia took the lead last saturday about what needed to be done to win the game.

Heaslip's an odd one in that the captaincy (or all that goes with it) doesn't seem to sit well with him but he is very clearly a leader on the pitch regardless.

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

We've heaps of leadership in the pack. Best, Heaslip, Toner, Stander to name but a few. This "captain incumbent" nonsense about O'Mahony is exactly the type of perception bias that I'm referring to.

Amusing that you say Kearney is not a leader. If you had any insight into Leinster and Ireland you would realise that the complete opposite is true.

And a very good evening to you too. I didn't mention the word 'captain' (nor incumbent for that matter). Also Best and Toner aren't backrow players which is what was being discussed.

Anyhoo, never saw a group of players huddled around Kearney listening intently. That's not to say he doesn't have opinion on the pitch but it's never been obvious to me that he leads compared to other players - though I have sen him marshall the backs like any good 15 should do. Ditto Toner BTW - though he does lead a bit by example. However, I've often seen players listen intently to O'Mahony as pack leader and as captain.

Now that might be 'perception bias', but I never got a game on the same team as these players, so I only have my perception to rely on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Heaslip's an odd one in that the captaincy (or all that goes with it) doesn't seem to sit well with him but he is very clearly a leader on the pitch regardless.

He was made captain in a year when the Kidney era was starting to seriously come off the tracks. We shipped some disappointing losses and he found himself in the wrong kind of limelight.

I think captaincy suits him fine, but I can understand why after 2013 he'd rather just focus on what is happening on the pitch.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

However, I've often seen players listen intently to O'Mahony as pack leader and as captain.

:rolleyes:

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Good point.