RTE to outsource young people programmes

dublinman1990

I just read this link from the Irish Examiner tonight even though it was announced yesterday.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/rte-to-outsource-young-peoples-tv-programming-765550.html

I think that this is a step in the right direction for RTE. Cutbacks had to come somewhere from RTE's own budget requirements. I suppose making programmes for young people up to now can be a very expensive process for the broadcaster.

It will give a chance for those in the private sector to think of new ideas for Kids programmes in RTE which can be a big help to their own careers.

afatbollix

Kids shows are so easy to sell over seas. Maybe it will be cheaper for RTE as it will be sharing the costs with other channels.

Elmo

afatbollix wrote: »

Kids shows are so easy to sell over seas. Maybe it will be cheaper for RTE as it will be sharing the costs with other channels.

It is also a case of increasing Indo-productions into cheaper productions while keeping RTÉ requirements to Indo-producers.

Could be a hard blow if RTÉ pull back on bigger prime-time productions from the independent sector.

IMO only Sport, Daytime, News and Soaps should stay with RTÉ.

icdg

The use of the word "outsource" is interesting. Normally an announcement like this would read "RTÉ to boost independent sector with greater commissioning opportunities".

It's almost as RTE are putting the news out looking for a negative reaction from certain politicians for whom public service outsourcing would be a dirty word.

Or am I just being cynical?

The Cush

I was watching some of Oireachtas Report last night, a few senators were particularly annoyed at RTÉ's announcement at the outsourcing of children's programming considering 3 of their Executive Board, including new DG Dee Forbes, were in before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications the day before they announced the decision to their staff and didn't mention the plan during the debate

Playback of the Committee debate from Tue 22nd - http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33999&&CatID=127

vicwatson

I thought they only ever showed repeats anyway

Hotblack Desiato

The Cush wrote: »

I was watching some of Oireachtas Report last night, a few senators were particularly annoyed at RTÉ's announcement at the outsourcing of children's programming considering 3 of their Executive Board, including new DG Dee Forbes, were in before the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications the day before they announced the decision to their staff and didn't mention the plan during the debate

These guys are so full of their own self-importance they think they should be told before the staff losing their jobs are!

dublinman1990

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

These guys are so full of their own self-importance they think they should be told before the staff losing their jobs are!

Don't forget.

If these politicians cared so much about young people's programmes on RTE; they still have yet to make the decision of letting RTEjr to get access to ad revenue from the SI of the Broadcasting Act to prevent the channel from losing more money from being aired on RTE ad free. If they had any ad revenue for RTEjr approved from the SI; RTE could have had the process of having more money to properly pay their staff & for the production of their programmes go a little bit smoother.

What would the future of RTEjr & TRTE if these changes go ahead in full? Will they both be vastly different services to the ones that are currently provided now?

If the young people department is going to have gaps in it's scheduling from next year; Will they be filled up with material from the independent sector very easily?

Elmo

RTÉ since the mid-1990s have refused to carry ads on programmes for preschoolers. RTÉ never wanted ads on RTÉjr.

The TDs needed to fund Oireachtas coverage from the oireachtas , allow RTÉ sell advertising on News Now, move RTÉjr from RTÉ2 and allow for RTÉ One +1 to be a full station or a half station e.g. RTÉThree/plus

Pokemon Battle

I really don't get why this has caused a fuss ? Does it really matter who makes two tube?

The Cush

Following a meeting between management and the RTÉ Trade Union Group the move has been put on hold and the 15 contracts extended to the end of Jan while the two go through a consultation process.

icdg

Pokemon Battle wrote: »

I really don't get why this has caused a fuss ? Does it really matter who makes two tube?

It is causing a fuss because RTE, quite unusually, want a fuss to be caused out of it. Hence why it was released to the news media first, why RTE News are giving it substantial coverage, and why they used that term "outsourcing" instead of "increased commissioning from the independent sector". Whether that is to get an increase in the licence fee or to get out of the indie quota is anyone's guess, but it has been a spectacular success in terms of the reaction that has ensued and the political reactions.

There was a fairly substantial piece on it on This Week earlier. At least one contributor seemed to be of the misapprehension that "RTE is getting out of children's programming". Another thought outsourcing necessarily meant that the programming would be produced outside the jurisidiction, which I'm sure is news to Irish indies. Yet another stated flatly that public service broadcasting could only be truly achieved by in house programming, which I'm sure is news to TG4. A spectacular success for RTE and the next stage will be to say that without a licence fee increase "outsourcing" will be an unfortunate consequence.

Hotblack Desiato

It's more than a bit off that RTE are using their own current affairs programming to set the news agenda in their own interests.

BoJack Horseman

Isn't all the content outsourced anyway?

It isn't like there is an animation studio in Montrose.
The private sector like Brown Bag Films provide their content

expectationlost

icdg wrote: »

It is causing a fuss because RTE, quite unusually, want a fuss to be caused out of it. Hence why it was released to the news media first, why RTE News are giving it substantial coverage, and why they used that term "outsourcing" instead of "increased commissioning from the independent sector". Whether that is to get an increase in the licence fee or to get out of the indie quota is anyone's guess, but it has been a spectacular success in terms of the reaction that has ensued and the political reactions.

this first apeared in the Indo afaik perhaps it was they who chose those words and the way it was framed http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/end-of-an-era-as-rt-pulls-plug-on-inhouse-childrens-television-35240951.html (unless you are suggesting the reporters was manipulated and the editor asleep) the Indo a sudden champion of the license fee?

I don't know how you could call outsourcing one entire section simply an increase.

Kensington

icdg wrote: »

A spectacular success for RTE and the next stage will be to say that without a licence fee increase "outsourcing" will be an unfortunate consequence.

It does sound like a very cynical attempt to argue an increase to the license fee. Frankly they should be pulled up on it. After all if they were that concerned they should be looking closely at other areas of their business that could see more effective cost savings.

For example, 2FM - the station is at an all time low in overall reach and listenership which continues to decline every single time the JNLR is out, it is posting staggering financial losses which is ultimately subsidised by the license fee and listening to the typical output of the station one wonders exactly what public service remit they can claim to be fulfilling keeping it on the air.

icdg

expectationlost wrote: »

this first apeared in the Indo afaik perhaps it was they who chose those words and the way it was framed http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/end-of-an-era-as-rt-pulls-plug-on-inhouse-childrens-television-35240951.html (unless you are suggesting the reporters was manipulated and the editor asleep)

I saw it first on RTE.ie - but regardless of that, the Examiner article linked to by the OP predates the Independent article you have linked to by three hours. It also starts with "RTE have announced", indicating clearly the source of the story - not a "it is believed", or a "source close to RTE" - it is quite clearly "RTE have announced".

SPDUB

icdg wrote: »

I saw it first on RTE.ie - but regardless of that, the Examiner article linked to by the OP predates the Independent article you have linked to by three hours. It also starts with "RTE have announced", indicating clearly the source of the story - not a "it is believed", or a "source close to RTE" - it is quite clearly "RTE have announced".

Though if RTE announced it how come it took the Independent 3 hours to hear that announcement

expectationlost

icdg wrote: »

I saw it first on RTE.ie - but regardless of that, the Examiner article linked to by the OP predates the Independent article you have linked to by three hours. It also starts with "RTE have announced", indicating clearly the source of the story - not a "it is believed", or a "source close to RTE" - it is quite clearly "RTE have announced".

here we go another version of the Indo article published 23/11/2016 | 20:25
http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/end-of-an-era-rt-confirms-it-will-outsource-all-of-its-young-peoples-tv-35240281.html

Irish Times had a better article on the sequence of events

The news that RTÉ would no longer be producing programmes for young people came abruptly on Wednesday [the 23rd] evening.

“We were told very coldly at half past five by a team of men in suits that the department was closing down in three weeks’ time,” says one employee who asked not to be named.

“Anyone who is on contract was told their job was gone. Staff employees would be redeployed within the company. Everyone was devastated and a lot of people were in tears.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/many-were-in-tears-abrupt-end-to-rt%C3%A9-programmes-for-young-1.2880910

it was announced internally, it got to the Indo somehow ( I presume leaked by staff) then the Indo confirmed it RTE. Far more plausible that you convoluted conspiracy

btw

RTÉ YOUNG PEOPLES

Last Updated: 03rd November 2016

COMMISSIONING BRIEF

https://www.rte.ie/commissioning/young_peoples_commissioning.html

old boy

afatbollix wrote: »

Kids shows are so easy to sell over seas. Maybe it will be cheaper for RTE as it will be sharing the costs with other channels.

but all involved will not be sacked, if they make kids programs too expensive, what else will the same people make be too expensive

expectationlost

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's more than a bit off that RTE are using their own current affairs programming to set the news agenda in their own interests.

how are they doing that?

expectationlost

Pokemon Battle wrote: »

I really don't get why this has caused a fuss ? Does it really matter who makes two tube?

the youth strand Two Tube was “temporarily” suspended in May and won’t now be returning

. says the IT http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/many-were-in-tears-abrupt-end-to-rt%C3%A9-programmes-for-young-1.2880910

Elmo

I don't think RTE can drop Two Tube it was a major part of the RTE schedule and would have to be given permission by the Department to drop it.

Children RTE
2003 10
2004 10
2005 12.6
2006 14
2007 17
2008 16.5
2009 15.4
2010 10.8
2011 12.3
2012 8.7
2013 8.1
2014 8.2
2015 9.4

above spend in millions since 2003, tiny amount to be saved in Young People's.

Hotblack Desiato

expectationlost wrote: »

how are they doing that?

icdg wrote: »

There was a fairly substantial piece on it on This Week earlier. At least one contributor seemed to be of the misapprehension that "RTE is getting out of children's programming". Another thought outsourcing necessarily meant that the programming would be produced outside the jurisidiction, which I'm sure is news to Irish indies. Yet another stated flatly that public service broadcasting could only be truly achieved by in house programming, which I'm sure is news to TG4. A spectacular success for RTE and the next stage will be to say that without a licence fee increase "outsourcing" will be an unfortunate consequence.

.

expectationlost

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

.

i thought you might have your own thoughts.

Pokemon Battle

Elmo wrote: »

I don't think RTE can drop Two Tube it was a major part of the RTE schedule and would have to be given permission by the Department to it

Lets not get carried away

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

btw
RTÉ YOUNG PEOPLES

Last Updated: 03rd November 2016

COMMISSIONING BRIEF
https://www.rte.ie/commissioning/young_peoples_commissioning.html

RTE planned to put out old repeats for up to two years
http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/rte-planned-to-put-out-old-repeats-for-up-to-two-years-35249676.html

hmmm where does the above commissioning fit in

Elmo

expectationlost wrote: »

RTE planned to put out old repeats for up to two years
http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/rte-planned-to-put-out-old-repeats-for-up-to-two-years-35249676.html

hmmm where does the above commissioning fit in

yeah it is strange to think that RTE management knew that they were cutting costs at YPP and yet they failed to start commissioning for 2017. Also AFAIK RTE's annual report does not report on programming in production rather programming that has aired. E.g. the reason Amber was push to 2 years after its production, this could mean that cost at YPP will be drastically reduce in 2017 from a tiny budget in 2016, which is possibly reduced since the 9million in 2015.

lertsnim

icdg wrote: »

It is causing a fuss because RTE, quite unusually, want a fuss to be caused out of it.

Where is your evidence for this? From what I can see it is a scenario created in your head.

Elmo

Pokemon Battle wrote: »

Lets not get carried away

why not? The series was a major part of RTE2's schedule under the Act any major change must be submitted to the Department who can then make a decision in 2 years time if they want or not, or just sit on it, or do nothing or don't do anything, or really just decided not to make a decision, or to consider doing something for as long as possible, or write a report and consider that report, or ultimately do nothing. Vast array of ways to do nothing.

boombang

I don't know if anybody caught this issue as covered by RTE's this week programme:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9_21093202_0__

Usually I'm impressed with the objectivity shown by this show, but I thought this piece was disgraceful handwringing from the perspective of RTE as unionised employer. The piece is even listed as "RTE cutbacks". Surely outsourcing something is just paying the money outside the organisation with an open tender (which brings the benefit of competition).

I know people will see this planned outsourcing as a thin end of the wedge for RTE. I'd welcome that wedge.

Elmo

boombang wrote: »

I don't know if anybody caught this issue as covered by RTE's this week programme:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9_21093202_0__

Usually I'm impressed with the objectivity shown by this show, but I thought this piece was disgraceful handwringing from the perspective of RTE as unionised employer. The piece is even listed as "RTE cutbacks". Surely outsourcing something is just paying the money outside the organisation with an open tender (which brings the benefit of competition).

I know people will see this planned outsourcing as a thin end of the wedge for RTE. I'd welcome that wedge.

You would but as I have said RTE seem to be only doing this to meet "outsourcing" requirements.

And also are you losing your job before christmas, and is the outsourcing happening at the beginning of the new year so that you might apply to get some of that outsourcing?

expectationlost

boombang wrote: »

I don't know if anybody caught this issue as covered by RTE's this week programme:

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9_21093202_0__

Usually I'm impressed with the objectivity shown by this show, but I thought this piece was disgraceful handwringing from the perspective of RTE as unionised employer. The piece is even listed as "RTE cutbacks". Surely outsourcing something is just paying the money outside the organisation with an open tender (which brings the benefit of competition).

it is cutting back on internal production, anyway RTE management declined to come onto the programme so they can't complain.

boombang

My main comment was regarding the objectivity of RTE news on this reporting, which I think was lacking.

In the long run outsourcing would lead to less people being directly employed by RTE, but were there any people laid off from permanent jobs at RTE on foot of the outsourcing announcement?

expectationlost

boombang wrote: »

My main comment was regarding the objectivity of RTE news on this reporting, which I think was lacking.

the main way to do objectiveity is to get both sides on, 1 side declined.

Elmo

expectationlost wrote: »

the main way to do objectiveity is to get both sides on, 1 side declined.

RTE management decline to go on RTE Radio!

boombang

expectationlost wrote: »

the main way to do objectiveity is to get both sides on, 1 side declined.

Because one side of the debate decided not to accept an invitation to join the segment then it's OK for RTE news to run a biased assessment of a story?

Elmo

boombang wrote: »

Because one side of the debate decided not to accept an invitation to join the segment then it's OK for RTE news to run a biased assessment of a story?

no the presenters should have researched fully what was happening from their perspective. you should complain to the BAI.

boombang

Elmo wrote: »

you should complain to the BAI.

It has crossed my mind.

Boards debating aside I think there are good reasons to open up production to competition. There are other problems at RTE that sit more on the editorial side IMO, which won't necessarily be addressed by outsourcing. However, a fresh breath of competition could really improve what we get out of Montrose.

Elmo

boombang wrote: »

It has crossed my mind.

Boards debating aside I think there are good reasons to open up production to competition. There are other problems at RTE that sit more on the editorial side IMO, which won't necessarily be addressed by outsourcing. However, a fresh breath of competition could really improve what we get out of Montrose.

The problem is that montrose are trying to do the exact opposite.

as i said AFAIK RTE must provide a certain amount of hours to Indo Producers on TV, I think its 50% of all home produced programming must come from the independent sector. RTE are basically going to provide them with all of the children's programmes which is cheap to produce, and could potential reduce the amount of money going to Independent production companies.

the other problem is children's TV is clearly underfunded.

I haven't listened to the debate on RTE but going from what is said here on boards.ie it sound very ill informed regardless of RTE managements involvement.

boombang

Elmo wrote: »

I haven't listened to the debate on RTE but going from what is said here on boards.ie it sound very ill informed regardless of RTE managements involvement.

Whatever one's views about outsourcing, it really seems that annoucement was badly mishandled. I certainly wouldn't be happy as an RTE employee with the way it has broken.

From what you've said about children's broadcasting: is it being picked off as a soft target in order to reach the quota? If so, would it seem fairer that the 50% quota was applied across all broadcast categories?

expectationlost

Elmo wrote: »

no the presenters should have researched fully what was happening from their perspective. you should complain to the BAI.

as you know balance can be had over a number of programmes and they had a spokeperson on drivetime during they week which they played a small section of

but anyway this must have been planned for a while... i'd've like to hear more about that

The Parish Priest.

So after RTE and their d4 mates creating a load of false hysteria about this they have today announced a u=turn #fakenews

dublinman1990

Except that new programmes made for this year will only be for RTEjr & none at all for TRTE.

Elmo

expectationlost wrote: »

as you know balance can be had over a number of programmes and they had a spokeperson on drivetime during they week which they played a small section of

but anyway this must have been planned for a while... i'd've like to hear more about that

Regardless of balance on this topic, I have seen no mention of how much RTE spent on producing children's programming in 2016. If RTE made cuts in 2016 (they axed Two Tube) they are already down from 2015s spend.

No news report has mentioned the amount of funding provided to the YPP department. (Also THE DEN was a Presentation Department Production not YPP.).

expectationlost

Elmo wrote: »

No news report has mentioned the amount of funding provided to the YPP department. (Also THE DEN was a Presentation Department Production not YPP.).

Irish Times seem to be making that distinction, the headline in the paper yesterday was 'RTE to continue to oursource childrens programming', online version today says

RTÉ’s young people’s programming department may continue to produce presenter links between shows in-house, but the broadcaster’s plan to outsource the making of youth programmes to the independent sector will proceed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/rt%C3%A9-may-make-concession-on-outsourcing-of-youth-programming-1.2959697 seems to be aim to save jobs of RTE staff

Elmo

expectationlost wrote: »

Irish Times seem to be making that distinction, the headline in the paper yesterday was 'RTE to continue to oursource childrens programming', online version today says
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/rt%C3%A9-may-make-concession-on-outsourcing-of-youth-programming-1.2959697 seems to be aim to save jobs of RTE staff

The reporter still doesn't mention how much money YPP department spend on producing TV.

If RTE cut YPP's budget by 20% last year from 2015 and plan to keep 2016 funding into 2018 that means 8million will be spend in 2017.

expectationlost

just say this story

RTE U-turn sees 7 out of 45 staff keep jobs in young people's section http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/rte-uturn-sees-7-out-of-45-staff-keep-jobs-in-young-peoples-section-35416735.html

is it a u-turn at all?

dublinman1990

Your man Reuben who does the continuity links for RTÉjr will probably be kept on in his job if that is the case.

It does seem like a small amount of positions for RTÉ to give back to people who work there. But I would say that the heyday of RTE Young People's programme making in the past has more of a challenging outlook for the future with what it has right now.

The scope of the programming RTÉ are probably asking to produce material on a much smaller budget than before.

The material also probably has to gain the same amount of traction & popularity that RTÉ had in the past. I am in favour of letting the independent of solely having an opportunity to make the programming for RTÉ. They may produce something that could be a more of a hit for a young audience that could gain huge credit for the broadcaster.

AndrewJRenko

Jeez, what will RTE senior management do to find jobs for their kids now?

Elmo

It'd be fine if RTÉ's YYP had a good budget and if RTÉ had planned commissions before this month. It still remains that RTÉ won't increase that budget and that it will probably srink this year.