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Permanent students.

Jimmy Garlic

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

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Mister Vain

Yeah I know a guy like that. He'll be getting his pension from the college soon.

AngryLips

I think it's questionable if someone spends their entire adult life in education, but at the same time I have way more respect for that person than someone who spends their entire life on the dole without trying.

gossamer

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

Grueller

snickerpuss wrote: »

Also social study leads to social care and social work both of which definitely lead to jobs. There actually aren't enough social workers at the moment.

Mainly due to a hiring moratorium in the public sector.

ZeroThreat

gossamer wrote: »

I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters.

Sooo, Louise O'Neill won't be getting a masters in Gender equality studies then??

Shergar6

gossamer wrote: »

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

Yeah true. There's some very spoilt and entitled people around. Have a couple of friends who are given handouts on a regular basis. One had money put in to that savings scheme - the 4 for 1 thing? The full amount -Think the ma paid 90e a month or something? had a tidy some of 16k when it matured. They never seemed to realise how lucky they were - it was like 'meh, she wanted to do it and i deserve it'.

Other friend has almost everything paid for by the parents. They do work in fairness but any sign of car trouble, private health care needed or they take a holiday and the ma and da are writing a check. The ma also minds the kids for free. She even has to take her holiday when they do so she'd be available to childmind :rolleyes:

I've never had that and never expected it. I haven't asked my parents for money since i was about 14. Paid for school books and school tour from my part-time job. Not expecting a clap on the back for it or anything but it would gall you to see how easy some people have it and they don't even appreciate it.

Grayson

gossamer wrote: »

I have no issue at all with people who save up and pay for their own masters and PhD or who are awarded a scholarship on their own merit.

It's the people who expect their parents to fund their education post undergrad that bother me, almost as if it's their God given right. A lot of the time a sense of entitlement and expectation comes with it. I watched a girl (woman, I should say) go into a full screaming, crying meltdown when her mother told her she couldn't afford to pay for her masters. To me, it's downright shameful to expect someone else to fund your way in life. It's worrying how prominent that behaviour has become. What happened to taking a few years out and saving up for yourself?

And yeah, for some it is a lifestyle choice. In my own experience college did not reflect reality whatsoever and people didn't want to burst that bubble with a 9-5 job when reality came knocking.

I think a lot of people have no idea what they want to do at 18. A lot of my most successful friends did Arts in college. It gave them a broad overview of topics they liked. They managed to put the skills they learned into action in real life and did quite well.

I think it's sweden where they will pay whatever wage you're on if you go back to college. It's not a bad idea if the state can afford it (I know ppl will start going on about tax but we've had hundreds of threads on it. I'm just saying that in an ideal world it's great to give people that option). Lots of people only figure out later on what they're good at.

I went back to college in my 30's to study full time whilst working full time. I'm still paying off the courses. It created a lot of financial pressure not to mention lifestyle change. Going back to improve yourself shouldn't be so arduous.

fizzypish

Anyone else think that staying in higher education for more than (I only did 4 and **** me if I'm going back) 7 years is a kind of hell?

[Deleted User]

fizzypish wrote: »

Anyone else think that staying in higher education for more than (I only did 4 and **** me if I'm going back) 7 years is a kind of hell?

I suppose it depends on how you do it and what you do and what you love.

I discovered later in life - after college - that I was actually much more interested in - and quite good at - many subjects that were completely different to what I actually studied.

If it were not for family and children and other committments I would consider going back to higher education myself to explore some of them. I would love to get much deeper into things like Human Psychology and Biology and Epidemiology and more - much deeper than I already have.

Perhaps in the future our family unit income will be in a state where we could juggle me not being an earner for a few years and I might even consider it. Now is not that time alas.

fizzypish

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose it depends on how you do it and what you do and what you love.

I discovered later in life - after college - that I was actually much more interested in - and quite good at - many subjects that were completely different to what I actually studied.

If it were not for family and children and other committments I would consider going back to higher education myself to explore some of them. I would love to get much deeper into things like Human Psychology and Biology and Epidemiology and more - much deeper than I already have.

Perhaps in the future our family unit income will be in a state where we could juggle me not being an earner for a few years and I might even consider it. Now is not that time alas.

True. I didn't enjoy my time. I do have a rather hard nosed view to full time higher education. If its not going to be profitable in the long run then its not that useful. Education is never wasted but more time studying does not always equal more money. In saying that if your paying for it yourself and not leveraging on anyone then go for it.

[Deleted User]

I guess so - but only assuming profit is your goal. A lot of people have no interest in profit. So I guess they would be the kind of people more inclined to stay in academia long term.

fizzypish

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess so - but only assuming profit is your goal. A lot of people have no interest in profit. So I guess they would be the kind of people more inclined to stay in academia long term.

Spot on. Potential profit/life options drove me into college and their the only thing that could drive me back.
I still get irritated when I think back to certain academic focused lecturers giving BS assignments and saying "This is what its like in industry" only to find industry nothing like that.

purpleisafruit

Following school, I did a year of medicine as that's what everyone told me I should do. Having decided that I'd be a crap doctor, I quit and went to study English. Did a masters after that and spent 5 years working in a job I loved in media.
Following redundancy at the height of the downturn, I decided to go back and do another degree in IT. Should have done that at 18 really! Now a couple of years into a new career and love what I do. If finances weren't an issue, I'd happily be an eternal student but grateful to be doing what I do now.

SusieBlue

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that his relative is jumping from course to course, in different areas of study, probably not completing some of them with no intention of working in any of those areas.

I don't think anyone would object to someone getting the highest qualification possible in their field, maybe even branching out a bit to a slightly different area of interest, so long as they were paying for the majority of it themselves. To study one area for so long shoes passion and the person will eventually give back what they got in taxes.

However I too know someone, who now, at 35, is still in college, and it's so annoying. She has done everything from fetac level nursing and fetac childcare to trying a BA in law and everything in between. The few courses she has finished, she has decided weren't for her and have gone in search of the next one.
She takes up seasonal work a few times a year, normally bar work in summer and retail in winter but as far as I know she's never worked consistently or full time. These courses are paid for by her parents, who she lives with, and grants.

I just think it's incredibly juvenile, after the 5th or 6th course that just 'wasn't for her' she should have sucked it up and tried to get a full time job in one of her areas, but no, on she moved to the next course. I know I certainly couldn't afford to jump from course to course, not finishing them, not progressing, because I have bills to pay, and I'm 10 years younger.

Pursuing the highest education possible in your area is nothing short of admirable but flitting from course to course with no direction or ambition, literally doing it to pass time, is not okay with me and is what would annoy me in that type of situation.

Galway_Old_Man

I get what people are saying about education being great but if you been to third-level I guarantee you've encountered the "lifers". Usually involved with the SU and SU politics (laugh), dropping in and out of courses. I remember as a wee-niper of 17 befriending one such guy through a society. He was an old head then, but I got to know him a bit and learned he'd be swinging between courses. I ditched that membership after first year. I happened upon a flyer from that University SU last year (missus sister is going as a mature student) and sure enough there he still was! Unbelievable. I'm 36 now and yer man is still arsing about.

ZeroThreat

hmmm, wonder if Michael Deans is still involved in SU politics in DIT...:)

fizzypish

The SU stuff reminds me of one of my class mates in 3rd year. We all forced him to be class rep (no one else was willing and he drew the short straw). We were incredibly busy and he had to go to a SU meeting. He returned 2 hours later fuming. They'd spent the entire meeting complaining as the cost of a cup of tea had gone up by 10 cents. Last meeting he attended.

Galway_Old_Man

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Wow. Are you working full-time on it? I assume it's in the same field/area as your previous one?

I wouldn't class such endeavours in the same box as a lifer!

pumpkin4life

Fleawuss wrote: »

Social studies. Heritage studies. Abolish all such courses immediately. Fire the staff. Immediate savings. Students forced to face reality.

Agreed. I have no problem paying taxes for someone to get an actuary/science/engineering/nursing etc degree but it pisses me off that I'm taxed at an exorbitant rate cause some wan can do Arts and learn some brainwashing feminist gunk. At the very least, these courses should not be subsidized.

Sidenote: One of the biggest jumps a lad can take is from the cushy college "ewevrywone a wrinner I like the movie Juno LOL" to the 9-5 world where no one gives two flying fùcks about you and your opinions on climate change and tropical fish. If you've come from a poorer environment/a STEM course where you're working your bollocks off, that isn't as bad, but for the liberal arts courses, I often think its an inability for a lot of people to face up to/comprehend reality.

padd b1975

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If the "Eternal Student" is paying their own way what's the problem?

If taxpayers are funding them forever well there is a point to made. When are they ever going to use their education for the good of the country as a pay back?

No problem with re training for unemployed from the taxpayer just to mention.

I don't think any student 100% pays their own way, no matter how much personal responsibility they show.

padd b1975

WhiteRoses wrote: »

She has done everything from fetac level nursing and fetac childcare to trying a BA in law

She was probably hoping to bag herself a doctor or a solicitor.
It's obvious at this stage in her life that she has absolutely no intention of standing on her own two feet.

pilly

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

Full time or part time?

Subcomandante Marcos

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

About to turn my 4th post graduate into a PhD myself. We should get off our arses and face the real world, useless layabouts.

Shergar6

padd b1975 wrote: »

She was probably hoping to bag herself a doctor or a solicitor.
It's obvious at this stage in her life that she has absolutely no intention of standing on her own two feet.

:rolleyes:

Pat D. Almighty

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It just occurred to me that a cousin of mine has been a student for 34 years (he is 37 now). Jumps from one thing to the next, he's done art, business, some social studies thing, other stuff I can't remember, and he is off to do heritage studies... Is this a lifestyle choice for some people?

Yep. Don't see any issue with it though.

Subcomandante Marcos

padd b1975 wrote: »

I don't think any student 100% pays their own way, no matter how much personal responsibility they show.

Well they only get fees and contributions paid for the first undergraduate and then some fees for the first masters, nothing for Phd's unless the IRC or Fulbright or similar give them some funding.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

So many judgemental posters talking about liberal arts degrees being a waste of taxpayer money. Maybe you don't agree with what they're about, but they incorporate history and sociology and all sorts of things which teach people about the world. If you're intending to go into a discipline where you have to understand where people are coming from, you'll greatly benefit from that information.

I did Philosophy as my elective Arts subject when I got my B.Ed. It's actually the part of the course I did best in, most enjoyed and have been able to use almost every moment of my waking hours since learning the concepts.

If people are doing these subjects and they have no idea what job they want, that's pretty pointless. My partner did History and Archaeology before the housing bubble collapsed and found it impossible to find work in those areas afterwards. We would recommend that anyone who doesn't want to be a teacher steer clear of the Arts subjects.

But at the same time, some people will benefit from the actual information being given in those courses. Some people aren't equipped to deal with the world and going to college is a step in that direction, so doing a liberal arts degree could be beneficial to their maturity and world-view. Of course, if your world view is that lefties are destroying the world with their hippie nonsense, you'll disagree with me. But that's your prerogative and the system is evidently set up not to disregard those callous views. Isn't that fortunate.

Mini850

If the aim is to educate yourself to a level at which you are required to have for a particular job, then it makes sense.

The pragmatist in me says that my experience is now worth more than my degree in my particular field, the Phd I could possibly go do is now worthless from an employment point of view.

I may have gotten to where I am a year or two faster if I had gone for the masters/ Phd straight after my degree. But my hear and now situation is that I would not further career any faster with a Phd. So for me, no point.

If I want to change career, then its back to school.

Jawgap

Permabear wrote: »

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Likewise.....and I'm doing a work-related masters at the same time!!

I left full time education when I was 21 and since then I've accumulated a PhD, another undergraduate degree, 2 Masters, post-grad diploma (essentially a masters without the dissertation) and various certs, diplomas etc.

The first and second undergrad degrees, the PhD, a masters and the current masters are all work related or were driven by career related factors.

The other masters and the PhD I'm currently working on are really just for my own satisfaction and because I read a lot - they provide structure and direction to my reading.....

.....I get a lot of ribbing but as they say education is no burden to carry.

Btw, having worked in a number of countries it is interesting to see the attitude people have to such study - I worked in Germany and when people were introducing me they always made a point of mentioning the title and the quals - in Ireland I think you almost have to apologise for being studious - I rarely make use of my doctoral title here, compared to when I'm dealing with continental, US or Asian clients. They see it as a huge plus.

Mortpourvelo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

God yeah

Kidding!!

So it's Dr Bear we should be calling you ??!