MATCH THREAD: Ireland vs NZ, 19/11/16, 1730 - Who is the greatest side of all time?

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

this thread is painfully embarrassing

Come on mate, it's entertaining. A couple of people are a little emotional and might be advised to see a counsellor but mostly it's the sort of debate/argument I enjoy with mates over a pint

thomond2006

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

sydthebeat wrote: »

this thread is painfully embarrassing

Burn it!

sydthebeat

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Come on mate, it's entertaining. A couple of people are a little emotional and might be advised to see a counsellor but mostly it's the sort of debate/argument I enjoy with mates over a pint

if you think this is entertaining you need to take off the chains and ball gag

molloyjh

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

What I'm loving is the whinging about the whinging, the outrage over the outrage, the moral high horse over the moral high horse.....

Adbrowne

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/801447126555361280

CMOTDibbler

molloyjh wrote: »

What I'm loving is the whinging about the whinging, the outrage over the outrage, the moral high horse over the moral high horse.....

You were going so well until you mixed your metaphors. :pac:

Buer

47 rucks for a 6'10" bloke is simply mind boggling. Says it all that it's 6 higher than the previous record for rucks made.

Neil3030

molloyjh wrote: »

What I'm loving is the whinging about the whinging, the outrage over the outrage, the moral high horse over the moral high horse.....

Nah my favourite is still the aftermath of the first test, when we were whinging that they weren't whinging, thus precluding us from whinging about them whinging.

shootermacg

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

Thing here is we aren't whinging about losing, we are whinging about NZ dirty play, hence giving us the moral high ground for our whinge fest!

swiwi_

Gordon D'Arcy when you go over the edge there should be consequences

Nice article for the Times Gordon.

OK, I leave it there. When does whinging about the whinging become worse than the whinging? Which is a fair point.

thomond2006

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

I'm done with this now. The whining articles is just turning into mass clickbait at this stage.

Edit: More important, the whiney clickbait is dragging attention from the legitimate articles.

CMOTDibbler

swiwi_ wrote: »

Gordon D'Arcy when you go over the edge there should be consequences

Nice article for the Times Gordon.

OK, I leave it there. When does whinging about the whinging become worse than the whinging? Which is a fair point.

Is that a long memory or assiduous googling?

Bazzo

swiwi_ wrote: »

Gordon D'Arcy when you go over the edge there should be consequences

Nice article for the Times Gordon.

OK, I leave it there. When does whinging about the whinging become worse than the whinging? Which is a fair point.

That'd be a straight red these days and rightly so, I doubt you'll find anybody here who'll argue against it. In fact I doubt D'Arcy himself would argue against it, he actually spoke in his article about how in his playing days he had gone out and purposely played on the edge as the all blacks were doing at the weekend.

Bazzo

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

Bazzo wrote: »

That'd be a straight red these days and rightly so, I doubt you'll find anybody here who'll argue against it. In fact I doubt D'Arcy himself would argue against it, he actually spoke in his article about how in his playing days he had gone out and purposely played on the edge as the all blacks were doing at the weekend.

Yeah it was a very measured article. I'm actually amazed at how defensive and precious a lot of Kiwi supporters have gotten. Their team knocked a couple of lads out playing a game of sports because they couldn't control themselves. They'll learn from it and hopefully it will help them mature as players and improve as a team.

They are plenty good enough to beat teams without resorting back to what they got upto on Saturday and if it means they take the odd beating along the way then what harm. It's all a bit of craic.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah it was a very measured article. I'm actually amazed at how defensive and precious a lot of Kiwi supporters have gotten. Their team knocked a couple of lads out playing a game of sports because they couldn't control themselves. They'll learn from it and hopefully it will help them mature as players and improve as a team.

They are plenty good enough to beat teams without resorting back to what they got upto on Saturday and if it means they take the odd beating along the way then what harm. It's all a bit of craic.

Winning at all costs is the best craic of all. I'm just amazed it took so long for you guys to realise that knocking people out is the cornerstone of the All Blacks dominance over the years.

All that King Richie cheating was just a smokescreen, now you see the real AB's laid bare.

nehe milner skudder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHRxvBZgMa4&t=1558s

a great podcast each week for those who have not seen it yet.

these two aussies are very objective and fair . very complimentary to ireland , sean o brien in particular. the post chicago podcast they were loving the irish.

their thoughts for those who won't listen to it:

fekitoa was a red
cane was nothing , unfortunate contact as henshaw spun into him.
barrett grounded the ball , unequivocally to use his words not mine.
sexton was a penalty try in any case.
aaron smith shouldn't have been carded as the ball was out.
they also questioned the whole tmo ref situation in the modern game.

they said read and smith were poor. irish back row were great.

CMOTDibbler

Basil3 wrote: »

Winning at all costs is the best craic of all. I'm just amazed it took so long for you guys to realise that knocking people out is the cornerstone of the All Blacks dominance over the years.

All that King Richie cheating was just a smokescreen, now you see the real AB's laid bare.

Well it was a bit of a cost with Fekitoa getting a ban for a week. Not all costs though.

Just listening to Woody there on Off the Ball and he's got a far more measured view of things. Thankfully he's more interested in extolling the performances of some of our players like SOB, Furlong, Best, Murray, Heaslip, VdF and Ringrose.

The only thing of note he was saying about the controversies is that the officials were crap. And that's really the issue tbh.

gamma001

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

barrett grounded the ball , unequivocally to use his words not mine.

I think most of us can agree that the ball was more than likely grounded - and for that reason I wouldn't be too peeved about how it panned out. However, there is no proof that it was in fact grounded.

The issue that I have (and I am sure most people are the same) is that the TMO blatantly lied to the ref about ball touching grass.

CMOTDibbler

gamma001 wrote: »

I think most of us can agree that the ball was more than likely grounded - and for that reason I wouldn't be too peeved about how it panned out. However, there is no proof that it was in fact grounded.

The issue that I have (and I am sure most people are the same) is that the TMO blatantly lied to the ref about ball touching grass.

I could see it on the replay from the opposite side. It wasn't clear as day, but we don't get the same quality pictures as the TMO does.

Bigbok

gamma001 wrote: »

I think most of us can agree that the ball was more than likely grounded - and for that reason I wouldn't be too peeved about how it panned out. However, there is no proof that it was in fact grounded.

The issue that I have (and I am sure most people are the same) is that the TMO blatantly lied to the ref about ball touching grass.

U should be happy it was given as if it wasn't then it would have been a penalty and a card for sexton

CMOTDibbler

Bigbok wrote: »

U should be happy it was given as if it wasn't then it would have been a penalty and a card for sexton

That seems unlikely as it wasn't even looked at by the citing commissioner. All high tackles are potential red card offences depending on the circumstances. Barrett dived just as Sexton tackled him.

Here's the pic from the other side. Looks like the ball did get touched down there. It's visible under Barrett's arm.

molloyjh

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

That seems unlikely as it wasn't even looked at by the citing commissioner. All high tackles are potential red card offences depending on the circumstances. Barrett dived just as Sexton tackled him.

Here's the pic from the other side. Looks like the ball did get touched down there. It's visible under Barrett's arm.

I don't think that's the ball tbh. It would want to be an odd shape for it to be given where it is above Barretts arms. The only real issue I have with that score is that the TMO said he saw a clear and obvious grounding. There's no way he did. We got the right result in the end as I'm sure the ball was grounded so the only issue I have is a technicality.

As for Sexton getting a card, I agree that should have been the case. But given how lenient Peyper was (and not just in that game) with high tackles in general I doubt it would have happened. So people saying that we should be lucky the try was awarded because of what would have happened had it not are being a bit disingenuous really.

dub_skav

As you can see here, there was a clear grounding

Adbrowne

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think that's the ball tbh. It would want to be an odd shape for it to be given where it is above Barretts arms. The only real issue I have with that score is that the TMO said he saw a clear and obvious grounding. There's no way he did. We got the right result in the end as I'm sure the ball was grounded so the only issue I have is a technicality.

As for Sexton getting a card, I agree that should have been the case. But given how lenient Peyper was (and not just in that game) with high tackles in general I doubt it would have happened. So people saying that we should be lucky the try was awarded because of what would have happened had it not are being a bit disingenuous really.

Barrett had white tape on his wrist. Thats what you can see under Sextons arm on the photo.

CMOTDibbler

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think that's the ball tbh. It would want to be an odd shape for it to be given where it is above Barretts arms. The only real issue I have with that score is that the TMO said he saw a clear and obvious grounding. There's no way he did. We got the right result in the end as I'm sure the ball was grounded so the only issue I have is a technicality.

There's a possibility that it's the strapping on Barrett's left wrist. And that the TMO was (again) seeing things that weren't there. But a youtube video has a lot less frames per second than what the TMO has available, so he can freeze frame through dozens of frames that we can't.

This frame is probably better:

irishbucsfan

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think that's the ball tbh. It would want to be an odd shape for it to be given where it is above Barretts arms. The only real issue I have with that score is that the TMO said he saw a clear and obvious grounding. There's no way he did. We got the right result in the end as I'm sure the ball was grounded so the only issue I have is a technicality.

As for Sexton getting a card, I agree that should have been the case. But given how lenient Peyper was (and not just in that game) with high tackles in general I doubt it would have happened. So people saying that we should be lucky the try was awarded because of what would have happened had it not are being a bit disingenuous really.

This is exactly it. The problem is the TMO talking bollocks saying he saw a clear and obvious grounding. Saying he saw the ball touching the grass. There's no way he did.

If we're then going to go and talk about Sexton getting a yellow card we might as well go back further and rule the entire try out anyway for Barrett being offside, but these are not things the officials picked up.

irishbucsfan

Gallant defeat to the best team ever to play the game

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There's a possibility that it's the strapping on Barrett's left wrist. And that the TMO was (again) seeing things that weren't there. But a youtube video has a lot less frames per second than what the TMO has available, so he can freeze frame through dozens of frames that we can't.

This frame is probably better:

The TMO didn't freeze through dozens of frames that we can't.

He blurted out "try" on his first viewing of the thing.

elefant

NZ to give us the rugby equivalent of a wedgie and take our lunch money

Bigbok wrote: »

U should be happy it was given as if it wasn't then it would have been a penalty and a card for sexton

Still reading this thread out of curiosity, but this point keeps coming up and caught my attention.

One of the main retorts against Irish fans' questioning of the refereeing performance is that Sexton should have received a yellow, to go with a penalty try. In a world where this high tackle would have led to a guaranteed yellow, New Zealand would have had numerous players yellow carded. They were actually penalised for a number of high tackles without cards being given, which is fine but it's disingenuous to then use Sexton's lucky escape to mitigate Irish qualms.

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The TMO didn't freeze through dozens of frames that we can't.

He blurted out "try" on his first viewing of the thing.

You know he doesn't just look at the replay we get on our television sets? He has a bunch of monitors all showing different angles and technicians to freeze frame salient shots.

He may have been quick to call it, but that's one of their objectives. Not to be faffing about when they're sure.

Having said that, he was poor overall and that undermines any faith we would have in his abilities. I'm pretty sure Barrett got the ball down. I'm probably anthropomorphising in saying he had better data and was able to use it...

Podge_irl

NZ to give us the rugby equivalent of a wedgie and take our lunch money

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You know he doesn't just look at the replay we get on our television sets? He has a bunch of monitors all showing different angles and technicians to freeze frame salient shots.

Actually I did often wonder about that. Pretty sure he doesn't have any extra angles that we don't get to see though.