Aviva Stadium naming rights round 2

johnnyryan89

machiavellianme wrote: »

I never said it was free but if any sport can't sustain itself, then let it die. Throwing money at it only delays the inevitable.

You do know that all sports need money to be sustainable, even amateur sports needs money to keep itself going from year to year.

Interested Observer

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Theres no way in hell we get 4 million a year for naming rights again. As I mentioned earlier naming rights for a new venue are worth more than for an existing venue. If we get half that we should be happy.

Well fair enough, I don't claim to be an expert in the economics of venue naming rights.

machiavellianme

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

You do know that all sports need money to be sustainable, even amateur sports needs money to keep itself going from year to year.

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

connemara man

machiavellianme wrote: »

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

Ok lads stop all sports grants and grass roots funding we've been going about this all wrong. Stop small counties playing GAA as not many are self sustaining,

Adbrowne

machiavellianme wrote: »

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

sports grants are an investment in sport. A bit like the tax back thing helps keep the top irish rugby players at home, improves the game by having these guys here all the time unlike the soccer team who all play abroad. Leinster have grown as a club, created jobs etc.

The govt stumped up for the stadium redevelopment but there job creation, an extra 15000 in the area on big soccer nights etc.

The Lost Sheep

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

As for, 'The name reverting to Lansdowne Road means less money for every part of the game in the country. How is that a good thing?' I already addressed that. If you keep selling out on tradition and culture then what are you left to represent?

Hey tourists, pop down to Trinity Trump College to see the Book of Kells Apple's iKells, then why not have a look inside The GPO Amazon Post Office, and when you're done there head down to Croke Park McDonald's Park to catch a GAA game.

Hey, it's a great future isn't it because there's so much MONEY coming in.

You are not selling out on tradition and where do you make up the significant drop in income from not selling naming rights. Your example of book of kells and universities is completely off and different.
The naming rights for the stadium means more money for the pro game and more importantly more money for the amateur game. The income is not easily replaced.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Rugby is a professional sport. Without money it doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with culture or heritage. Personally I rather sell the naming rights and keep our top players playing at home.

And much much more money available for the amatuer game.

machiavellianme wrote: »

What law is there that states the media are obliged to call them as such? There's absolutely nothing to stop them calling it anything they want, but they choose to do so because it may potentially upset a potential advertising sale. The "media" have long since sold their souls to the highest bidder and would sell a derivative of it if given half the chance.

Seeing as the State contributed most of the cost of Lansdowne road, I'd prefer to see any cash from naming pay down some of the national debt than squander it on sports that do OK for themselves on the international level. It's not like you can go out and buy a better player to represent the national team. Anything at provincial or lower levels should either look after itself or fold if not sustainable.

Contracts the organisations who provide the sponsorship sign will state stadiums will have to be called by their said name.

MJohnston

In my experience, the only time people use the sponsor name for a stadium/venue is when it's 'catchier' than the old name.

machiavellianme

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You are not selling out on tradition and where do you make up the significant drop in income from not selling naming rights. Your example of book of kells and universities is completely off and different.
The naming rights for the stadium means more money for the pro game and more importantly more money for the amateur game. The income is not easily replaced.

And much much more money available for the amatuer game.

Contracts the organisations who provide the sponsorship sign will state stadiums will have to be called by their said name.

The media and public don't sign such a contract. It is between the organisation selling naming rights and the purchaser. The media can call it whatever they like as long as it is appropriate.

CIARAN_BOYLE

machiavellianme wrote: »

The media and public don't sign such a contract. It is between the organisation selling naming rights and the purchaser. The media can call it whatever they like as long as it is appropriate.

True however the contract between the selling party and the advertising party will include a term that the selling party will exclude access to non participating media parties.

IE RTE call LDR LDR then FAI/IRFU must ban RTE from Aviva stadium.

daithi7

laugh wrote: »

The stadium cost €420 million or so, they should crowd fund reverting to Lansdowne, it's the oldest rugby ground in constant use in the world.

Yup, a bloody scandalous price, for 3/4 of a proper stadium. And this is coming from someone who has 10 year seats in the place

ahlookit

Its a pity Aviva didn't retain the old Hibernian brand here. The Hibernian Stadium would have been a much better name.

Ideally would like to see it revert to Lansdowne Road name, but it'll probably be the 3 or vodafone stadium in a couple of years

former total

MJohnston wrote: »

In my experience, the only time people use the sponsor name for a stadium/venue is when it's 'catchier' than the old name.

I think it helps when the stadium is new.

I starting calling it the Aviva from day one, mainly because it bears no resemblance to Lansdowne Road. But I'll be calling it the Milennium Stadium for ages yet.

Likewise, when the Point was rebuilt, The O2 became lodged in my brain and I never call it the 3arena

CIARAN_BOYLE

former total wrote: »

I think it helps when the stadium is new.

I starting calling it the Aviva from day one, mainly because it bears no resemblance to Lansdowne Road. But I'll be calling it the Milennium Stadium for ages yet.

Likewise, when the Point was rebuilt, The O2 became lodged in my brain and I never call it the 3arena

Very much so. Thats also why I mentioned above that we would be lucky to get half as much as what aviva paid.

thomond2006

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

Fr Tod Umptious

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

I did an search on the soccer form a few years back to count the number of times the words "aviva" and "Lansdowne" (spelt correctly and incorrectly) appeared since the stadium opened.

Aviva appeared more often.
I should do it again and in the Rugby form too.

ArmaniJeanss

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

True however the contract between the selling party and the advertising party will include a term that the selling party will exclude access to non participating media parties.

IE RTE call LDR LDR then FAI/IRFU must ban RTE from Aviva stadium.

Surely such a clause would completely clash with the contract IRFU/FAI sign with 6N/UEFA to allow the appointed host broadcaster full access to do their host broadcasting thing.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Surely such a clause would completely clash with the contract IRFU/FAI sign with 6N/UEFA to allow the appointed host broadcaster full access to do their host broadcasting thing.

I'm sure there is a clause in those agreements whereby RTE agree to respect various commercial agreements regarding usage of relevant nomenclature regarding the events/stadiums. RTE don't respect the naming RTE may have to pay a penalty.

So the pro 12 must be called the Guinness PRO12, LDR must be called the Aviva etc.

leakyboots

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

That's a bit pedantic - the stadium has been known for aeons as Landsdowne Road until it became recently named after a feckin' insurance company.

I don't have a problem per se with naming rights, any extra income is good for us I guess - I don't see why it couldn't have been incorporated like 'Aviva - Landsdowne Road' or Landsdowne Aviva.

Have caught myself using the new name a few times recently.. stupid blatantly subliminal advertising

ahlookit

Slightly OT, but I'd let them call the ground what they like if they removed the godawful 3 sponsorship from the front of the football jersey.

Some French bloke stopped me on the street during the Euros wondering why all the Irish fans liked the number 3 :eek:

Cookiemunster

leakyboots wrote: »

That's a bit pedantic - the stadium has been known for aeons as Landsdowne Road until it became recently named after a feckin' insurance company.

No the previous stadium that was demolished was called Lansdowne Road. That stadium was organically redeveloped piece by piece over the decades. That stadium however was completely demolished and there is nothing left of it.
The new stadium is a completely different stadium from the foundations up on a different footprint.

CIARAN_BOYLE

leakyboots wrote: »

I don't have a problem per se with naming rights, any extra income is good for us I guess - I don't see why it couldn't have been incorporated like 'Aviva - Landsdowne Road' or Landsdowne Aviva.

I generally reduces the value of the naming rights to roughly 50%

Adbrowne

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No the previous stadium that was demolished was called Lansdowne Road. That stadium was organically redeveloped piece by piece over the decades. That stadium however was completely demolished and there is nothing left of it.
The new stadium is a completely different stadium from the foundations up on a different footprint.

you occasionally hear guys being interviewed on BBC referring to the Millenium Stadium as the Arms Park when talking about a Wales GS win in 2005 etc.

leakyboots

Adbrowne wrote: »

you occasionally hear guys being interviewed on BBC referring to the Millenium Stadium as the Arms Park when talking about a Wales GS win in 2005 etc.

It's not even called the Millenium Stadium anymore!

penybont exile

leakyboots wrote: »

It's not even called the Millenium Stadium anymore!

The Arms Park is still where it has always been. Cardiff RFC / Cardiff Blues play on the Arms Park.

The Millennium was partially built on the site of the old National Stadium (in fact the stand at the north end of the ground is the original structure). The southern end of the ground lies on the site of the old Empire Pool .... which was built for the 1958 Commonwealth Games.

Buer

penybont exile wrote: »

The Arms Park is still where it has always been. Cardiff RFC / Cardiff Blues play on the Arms Park.

The Millennium was partially built on the site of the old National Stadium (in fact the stand at the north end of the ground is the original structure). The southern end of the ground lies on the site of the old Empire Pool .... which was built for the 1958 Commonwealth Games.

The BT Arms Park :pac:

leakyboots

penybont exile wrote: »

The Arms Park is still where it has always been. Cardiff RFC / Cardiff Blues play on the Arms Park.

The Millennium was partially built on the site of the old National Stadium (in fact the stand at the north end of the ground is the original structure). The southern end of the ground lies on the site of the old Empire Pool .... which was built for the 1958 Commonwealth Games.

I think you missed my point, it's not called the Millenium Stadium anymore

Larbre34

I only ever use Lansdowne Road. Apart from riding roughshod over history, look at the confusion at the Point Theatre where the acquisition of 02 caused a premature sponsor change. A further name change from Aviva was inevitable, it may even come earlier due to their apparent exit from so many sectors in Ireland. Irish Life Stadium anyone?

UEFA wont even use the damn name when it comes to hosting external matches, so you cant even dangle the Euro 2020 games in front of a potential sponsor