Aviva Stadium naming rights round 2

CIARAN_BOYLE

As we all know new LDR was named Aviva Stadium when it opened in 2009 in a 10 year deal valued at €40 million which paid for a lot of the costs of building the stadium. Well the deal expires in 3 years.

Will the IRFU and the FAI seek to restore the name Lansdowne road to the stadium or will they seek to resell the naming right. A new venue is valued above an existing venue and and the market for naming rights is poor as seen by failures to sell naming rights for Thomond and the RDS recently.

Any thoughts.

laugh

The stadium cost €420 million or so, they should crowd fund reverting to Lansdowne, it's the oldest rugby ground in constant use in the world.

CIARAN_BOYLE

laugh wrote: »

The stadium cost €420 million or so.

True 235 or so paid by the state and 185 or so paid by FAI/IRFU. For what its worth the naming rights took almost 25% of the IRFU/FAIs burden off them.

former total

I doubt there's any debate over whether it's going to happen. The only question is who takes it on and how much they pay.

durthacht

former total wrote: »

I doubt there's any debate over whether it's going to happen. The only question is who takes it on and how much they pay.

Absolutely they should sell naming rights.

The FAI are still massively in debt and the IRFU can barely compete with the money in the English and French games. If selling naming rights provides funds to keep some of our best players in Ireland then I'd be all for it.

I imagine they would sell as the Aviva has far more exposure and prestige than either RDS or Thomond.

Buer

It would be utterly insane for them not to do anything but sell the naming rights.

MJohnston

I think Aviva are somewhat out of the Irish consumer market too now, at least definitely in Health insurance. So I suppose we can expect a change whatever it is.

Mr.Nice Guy

It was a disgrace that they changed the name in the first place. That would never have happened with Wembley or Twickenham, but then the English respect tradition.

Ireland's football team I believe are also one of the few international sides that sell jerseys with a corporate logo across the front - it's more important to fill John Delaney's coffers than to have a bit of dignity.

Ideally the name will revert back to Lansdowne Road but we all know the people that make these decisions would sell out their own mothers for a bit of moolah.

And I don't buy this argument about how it's justifiable because it brings in funds. Should we allow the Book of Kells to be renamed iKells if Apple pay us a pretty penny for the right to do so? Is nothing sacred?

Time to stop selling out.

The Lost Sheep

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a disgrace that they changed the name in the first place. That would never have happened with Wembley or Twickenham, but then the English respect tradition.

Ireland's football team I believe are also one of the few international sides that sell jerseys with a corporate logo across the front - it's more important to fill John Delaney's coffers than to have a bit of dignity.

Ideally the name will revert back to Lansdowne Road but we all know the people that make these decisions would sell out their own mothers for a bit of moolah.

And I don't buy this argument about how it's justifiable because it brings in funds. Should we allow the Book of Kells to be renamed iKells if Apple pay us a pretty penny for the right to do so? Is nothing sacred?

Time to stop selling out.

Selling out? Its not. It very much is justifiable as where do you make up the money from not doing it. Ireland soccer team are one of the few but that's a different sport. As for pety comment on JD...:rolleyes:
Virtually all rugby teams have sponsors on jerseys bar world cups
The name reverting to Lansdowne Road means less money for every part of the game in the country. How is that a good thing?

Mr.Nice Guy

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Selling out? Its not. It very much is justifiable as where do you make up the money from not doing it. Ireland soccer team are one of the few but that's a different sport. As for pety comment on JD...:rolleyes:
Virtually all rugby teams have sponsors on jerseys bar world cups
The name reverting to Lansdowne Road means less money for every part of the game in the country. How is that a good thing?

The OP reads:

Will the IRFU and the FAI seek to restore the name Lansdowne road to the stadium

Hence why I mentioned soccer. And it's laughable that you consider a comment against 'JD' petty when this man earns more than the winners of the League of Ireland, and has called the league 'a problem child'. He's everything that's wrong with the way sport is governed in this country - 'get as much cash as possible - for corporate pockets.'

As for, 'The name reverting to Lansdowne Road means less money for every part of the game in the country. How is that a good thing?' I already addressed that. If you keep selling out on tradition and culture then what are you left to represent?

Hey tourists, pop down to Trinity Trump College to see the Book of Kells Apple's iKells, then why not have a look inside The GPO Amazon Post Office, and when you're done there head down to Croke Park McDonald's Park to catch a GAA game.

Hey, it's a great future isn't it because there's so much MONEY coming in.

Podge_irl

People go to Trinity College and see the Book of Kells because of their name and history.

People go to Lansdowne Road because of who is playing there. If they call it Aviva the chances are the people playing there will be more likely to win - suits me fine.

ionadnapokot

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a disgrace that they changed the name in the first place. That would never have happened with Wembley or Twickenham, but then the English respect tradition.

Ireland's football team I believe are also one of the few international sides that sell jerseys with a corporate logo across the front - it's more important to fill John Delaney's coffers than to have a bit of dignity.

Ideally the name will revert back to Lansdowne Road but we all know the people that make these decisions would sell out their own mothers for a bit of moolah.

And I don't buy this argument about how it's justifiable because it brings in funds. Should we allow the Book of Kells to be renamed iKells if Apple pay us a pretty penny for the right to do so? Is nothing sacred?

Time to stop selling out.

Agree
It still is Lansdowne road and always will be
It still is the Point Depot and always will be
It still is Musgrave Park and always will be
It still is Ravenhill etc
etc
Ok. sell the name. € needed
But please. People of Ireland, I beg you, STOP calling it by the sponsors name.

Buer

Shag all people call those arenas by anything but the sponsor's name aside from Musgrave because Irish Independent Park is the clunkiest moniker known to man.

To the punter on the street, it's the 3 Arena, the Aviva, Kingspan etc. The media are obliged to refer to them as such and that pretty much assures that people will follow suit.

vienne86

Of course they will sell the naming rights again - they would be mad to turn down that amount of cash. And besides, Landsdowne Road as a title is not really of any relevance to the football fans.

Sleeper12

Ah FFS I'm only getting used to calling it Aviva.

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

Shag all people call those arenas by anything but the sponsor's name aside from Musgrave because Irish Independent Park is the clunkiest moniker known to man.

To the punter on the street, it's the 3 Arena, the Aviva, Kingspan etc. The media are obliged to refer to them as such and that pretty much assures that people will follow suit.

Yea! Shag them idiots. Who needs culture and heritage when you have money?

Cookiemunster

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yea! Shag them idiots. Who needs culture and heritage when you have money?

Rugby is a professional sport. Without money it doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with culture or heritage. Personally I rather sell the naming rights and keep our top players playing at home.

Buer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yea! Shag them idiots. Who needs culture and heritage when you have money?

You want the sport to continue in Ireland, you need the money. A name doesn't change history. It would be the height of stupidity to turn down the money.

machiavellianme

Buer wrote: »

Shag all people call those arenas by anything but the sponsor's name aside from Musgrave because Irish Independent Park is the clunkiest moniker known to man.

To the punter on the street, it's the 3 Arena, the Aviva, Kingspan etc. The media are obliged to refer to them as such and that pretty much assures that people will follow suit.

What law is there that states the media are obliged to call them as such? There's absolutely nothing to stop them calling it anything they want, but they choose to do so because it may potentially upset a potential advertising sale. The "media" have long since sold their souls to the highest bidder and would sell a derivative of it if given half the chance.

Seeing as the State contributed most of the cost of Lansdowne road, I'd prefer to see any cash from naming pay down some of the national debt than squander it on sports that do OK for themselves on the international level. It's not like you can go out and buy a better player to represent the national team. Anything at provincial or lower levels should either look after itself or fold if not sustainable.

Buer

machiavellianme wrote: »

What law is there that states the media are obliged to call them as such? There's absolutely nothing to stop them calling it anything they want, but they choose to do so because it may potentially upset a potential advertising sale. The "media" have long since sold their souls to the highest bidder and would sell a derivative of it if given half the chance.

They can see their media access hugely curtailed.

machiavellianme wrote: »

Seeing as the State contributed most of the cost of Lansdowne road, I'd prefer to see any cash from naming pay down some of the national debt than squander it on sports that do OK for themselves on the international level. It's not like you can go out and buy a better player to represent the national team. Anything at provincial or lower levels should either look after itself or fold if not sustainable.

Yeah. Ok. Do you think the game and development is all cost free?

cdeb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a disgrace that they changed the name in the first place. That would never have happened with Wembley or Twickenham, but then the English respect tradition.

The English respect tradition?

Have you watched Bolton Wanderers in action in the Macron Stadium (previously the Reebok Stadium) in the Checkatrade.com trophy lately?

I dislike corporate stadium naming rights too, and agree with the other poster who said people should just ignore it and maybe it'll go away, but let's not pretend the English are above stuff like this either. There's a huge amount of grounds being renamed in England unfortunately.

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

You want the sport to continue in Ireland, you need the money. A name doesn't change history. It would be the height of stupidity to turn down the money.

Never said turn down the money. Read the previous post

johnnyryan89

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

As we all know new LDR was named Aviva Stadium when it opened in 2009 in a 10 year deal valued at €40 million which paid for a lot of the costs of building the stadium. Well the deal expires in 3 years.

Will the IRFU and the FAI seek to restore the name Lansdowne road to the stadium or will they seek to resell the naming right. A new venue is valued above an existing venue and and the market for naming rights is poor as seen by failures to sell naming rights for Thomond and the RDS recently.

Any thoughts.

The time to sell the naming rights for Thomond Park was ten years ago. They said that back then once the new stadium was completed you'd be looking at 750,000 per annum which then would have got you world class talents, now you're looking at 350,000 per annum which would get you a decent young player for about two years until a French team offers him more.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing and the way Munster Rugby has fallen they'll be kicking themselves at such a missed opportunity.

ionadnapokot

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Rugby is a professional sport. Without money it doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with culture or heritage. Personally I rather sell the naming rights and keep our top players playing at home.

So would I.
Just don't call it the sponsors name. Like most of the lemmings around

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nonsense nonsense nonsense

Ireland are already struggling to keep up with the English and French when it comes to finances, there is no way they can afford to turn down €40m+ for naming rights.

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a disgrace that they changed the name in the first place. That would never have happened with Wembley or Twickenham, but then the English respect tradition.

Ireland's football team I believe are also one of the few international sides that sell jerseys with a corporate logo across the front - it's more important to fill John Delaney's coffers than to have a bit of dignity.

Ideally the name will revert back to Lansdowne Road but we all know the people that make these decisions would sell out their own mothers for a bit of moolah.

And I don't buy this argument about how it's justifiable because it brings in funds. Should we allow the Book of Kells to be renamed iKells if Apple pay us a pretty penny for the right to do so? Is nothing sacred?

Time to stop selling out.

Agree
It still is Lansdowne road and always will be
It still is the Point Depot and always will be
It still is Musgrave Park and always will be
It still is Ravenhill etc
etc
Ok. sell the name. needed
But please. People of Ireland, I beg you, STOP calling it by the sponsors name.

If calling Ravenhill, "Kingspan" means Ulster signing the likes of Piutau and Coetzee it's fine by me.

If calling Lansdowne Rd, "the Aviva", means the likes of Conor Murray, Robbie Henshaw and Iain Henderson stay in Ireland then it's fine by me.

It's a pretty easy source of income and helps us try and compete with the French and English clubs.

Shefwedfan

Sell Sell Sell.....

Then hand all the money to Leinster......

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

If calling Ravenhill, "Kingspan" means Ulster signing the likes of Piutau and Coetzee it's fine by me.

If calling Lansdowne Rd, "the Aviva", means the likes of Conor Murray, Robbie Henshaw and Iain Henderson stay in Ireland then it's fine by me.

It's a pretty easy source of income and helps us try and compete with the French and English clubs.

I'm not disagreeing about selling the name! Take the money.
Just refer to it as Lansdowne rd etc
Easy. And it also will help my blood pressure

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jennifer Ugly Smugness wrote: »

Ireland are already struggling to keep up with the English and French when it comes to finances, there is no way they can afford to turn down €40m+ for naming rights.

Theres no way in hell we get 4 million a year for naming rights again. As I mentioned earlier naming rights for a new venue are worth more than for an existing venue. If we get half that we should be happy.

machiavellianme

Buer wrote: »

They can see their media access hugely curtailed.



Yeah. Ok. Do you think the game and development is all cost free?

I never said it was free but if any sport can't sustain itself, then let it die. Throwing money at it only delays the inevitable.

Squeeonline

Out of all sponsors for a stadium name "Aviva" is not the worst. If it wasn't a company I'd have no problem at all with the name, except for it just not sounding particularly Irish.

Better than the travisty that is the Bord Gáis Energy Theatre.

johnnyryan89

machiavellianme wrote: »

I never said it was free but if any sport can't sustain itself, then let it die. Throwing money at it only delays the inevitable.

You do know that all sports need money to be sustainable, even amateur sports needs money to keep itself going from year to year.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Theres no way in hell we get 4 million a year for naming rights again. As I mentioned earlier naming rights for a new venue are worth more than for an existing venue. If we get half that we should be happy.

Well fair enough, I don't claim to be an expert in the economics of venue naming rights.

machiavellianme

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

You do know that all sports need money to be sustainable, even amateur sports needs money to keep itself going from year to year.

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

connemara man

machiavellianme wrote: »

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

Ok lads stop all sports grants and grass roots funding we've been going about this all wrong. Stop small counties playing GAA as not many are self sustaining,

Adbrowne

machiavellianme wrote: »

Then it's not sustainable. If the money something generates isn't greater than the money required to run it, then by definition it can't sustain itself. The lansdowne road stadium is a national asset paid for mostly with tax payers money in the public interest. It is not and should not be used to generate profits to solely benefit private organisations or persons.
I have no issues with corporations whoring their wares for stadia owned by the clubs themselves, but lansdowne road is not owned by FAI or IRFU.

sports grants are an investment in sport. A bit like the tax back thing helps keep the top irish rugby players at home, improves the game by having these guys here all the time unlike the soccer team who all play abroad. Leinster have grown as a club, created jobs etc.

The govt stumped up for the stadium redevelopment but there job creation, an extra 15000 in the area on big soccer nights etc.

The Lost Sheep

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

As for, 'The name reverting to Lansdowne Road means less money for every part of the game in the country. How is that a good thing?' I already addressed that. If you keep selling out on tradition and culture then what are you left to represent?

Hey tourists, pop down to Trinity Trump College to see the Book of Kells Apple's iKells, then why not have a look inside The GPO Amazon Post Office, and when you're done there head down to Croke Park McDonald's Park to catch a GAA game.

Hey, it's a great future isn't it because there's so much MONEY coming in.

You are not selling out on tradition and where do you make up the significant drop in income from not selling naming rights. Your example of book of kells and universities is completely off and different.
The naming rights for the stadium means more money for the pro game and more importantly more money for the amateur game. The income is not easily replaced.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Rugby is a professional sport. Without money it doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with culture or heritage. Personally I rather sell the naming rights and keep our top players playing at home.

And much much more money available for the amatuer game.

machiavellianme wrote: »

What law is there that states the media are obliged to call them as such? There's absolutely nothing to stop them calling it anything they want, but they choose to do so because it may potentially upset a potential advertising sale. The "media" have long since sold their souls to the highest bidder and would sell a derivative of it if given half the chance.

Seeing as the State contributed most of the cost of Lansdowne road, I'd prefer to see any cash from naming pay down some of the national debt than squander it on sports that do OK for themselves on the international level. It's not like you can go out and buy a better player to represent the national team. Anything at provincial or lower levels should either look after itself or fold if not sustainable.

Contracts the organisations who provide the sponsorship sign will state stadiums will have to be called by their said name.

MJohnston

In my experience, the only time people use the sponsor name for a stadium/venue is when it's 'catchier' than the old name.

machiavellianme

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You are not selling out on tradition and where do you make up the significant drop in income from not selling naming rights. Your example of book of kells and universities is completely off and different.
The naming rights for the stadium means more money for the pro game and more importantly more money for the amateur game. The income is not easily replaced.

And much much more money available for the amatuer game.

Contracts the organisations who provide the sponsorship sign will state stadiums will have to be called by their said name.

The media and public don't sign such a contract. It is between the organisation selling naming rights and the purchaser. The media can call it whatever they like as long as it is appropriate.

CIARAN_BOYLE

machiavellianme wrote: »

The media and public don't sign such a contract. It is between the organisation selling naming rights and the purchaser. The media can call it whatever they like as long as it is appropriate.

True however the contract between the selling party and the advertising party will include a term that the selling party will exclude access to non participating media parties.

IE RTE call LDR LDR then FAI/IRFU must ban RTE from Aviva stadium.

daithi7

laugh wrote: »

The stadium cost €420 million or so, they should crowd fund reverting to Lansdowne, it's the oldest rugby ground in constant use in the world.

Yup, a bloody scandalous price, for 3/4 of a proper stadium. And this is coming from someone who has 10 year seats in the place

ahlookit

Its a pity Aviva didn't retain the old Hibernian brand here. The Hibernian Stadium would have been a much better name.

Ideally would like to see it revert to Lansdowne Road name, but it'll probably be the 3 or vodafone stadium in a couple of years

former total

MJohnston wrote: »

In my experience, the only time people use the sponsor name for a stadium/venue is when it's 'catchier' than the old name.

I think it helps when the stadium is new.

I starting calling it the Aviva from day one, mainly because it bears no resemblance to Lansdowne Road. But I'll be calling it the Milennium Stadium for ages yet.

Likewise, when the Point was rebuilt, The O2 became lodged in my brain and I never call it the 3arena

CIARAN_BOYLE

former total wrote: »

I think it helps when the stadium is new.

I starting calling it the Aviva from day one, mainly because it bears no resemblance to Lansdowne Road. But I'll be calling it the Milennium Stadium for ages yet.

Likewise, when the Point was rebuilt, The O2 became lodged in my brain and I never call it the 3arena

Very much so. Thats also why I mentioned above that we would be lucky to get half as much as what aviva paid.

thomond2006

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

Fr Tod Umptious

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

I did an search on the soccer form a few years back to count the number of times the words "aviva" and "Lansdowne" (spelt correctly and incorrectly) appeared since the stadium opened.

Aviva appeared more often.
I should do it again and in the Rugby form too.

ArmaniJeanss

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

True however the contract between the selling party and the advertising party will include a term that the selling party will exclude access to non participating media parties.

IE RTE call LDR LDR then FAI/IRFU must ban RTE from Aviva stadium.

Surely such a clause would completely clash with the contract IRFU/FAI sign with 6N/UEFA to allow the appointed host broadcaster full access to do their host broadcasting thing.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Surely such a clause would completely clash with the contract IRFU/FAI sign with 6N/UEFA to allow the appointed host broadcaster full access to do their host broadcasting thing.

I'm sure there is a clause in those agreements whereby RTE agree to respect various commercial agreements regarding usage of relevant nomenclature regarding the events/stadiums. RTE don't respect the naming RTE may have to pay a penalty.

So the pro 12 must be called the Guinness PRO12, LDR must be called the Aviva etc.

leakyboots

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ultimately I don't see a big issue with renaming a ground through naming rights, with a possible exception if the stadium name is commemorating someone or something ie Soldier Field in Chicago. I think in the case of Wembley, that is its own brand in itself.

I find the hullabaloo about 'call it Lansdowne Road' a bit odd these days tbh. Lansdowne Road is the name of a street. What's the big deal? Where is the implied disrespect with calling it the Aviva?

That's a bit pedantic - the stadium has been known for aeons as Landsdowne Road until it became recently named after a feckin' insurance company.

I don't have a problem per se with naming rights, any extra income is good for us I guess - I don't see why it couldn't have been incorporated like 'Aviva - Landsdowne Road' or Landsdowne Aviva.

Have caught myself using the new name a few times recently.. stupid blatantly subliminal advertising

ahlookit

Slightly OT, but I'd let them call the ground what they like if they removed the godawful 3 sponsorship from the front of the football jersey.

Some French bloke stopped me on the street during the Euros wondering why all the Irish fans liked the number 3 :eek:

Cookiemunster

leakyboots wrote: »

That's a bit pedantic - the stadium has been known for aeons as Landsdowne Road until it became recently named after a feckin' insurance company.

No the previous stadium that was demolished was called Lansdowne Road. That stadium was organically redeveloped piece by piece over the decades. That stadium however was completely demolished and there is nothing left of it.
The new stadium is a completely different stadium from the foundations up on a different footprint.